|Politics| Election 2009: Obama or McCain? - Page 2

**Inu** · 08-04-2008

I am the secret emperor of America.

SRP76 · 08-04-2008

Well, I won't be voting for Obama, that much is certain. He keeps saying "I want to...." this and that. Well, he's been sitting in the Senate for years. A quick check of votes and bills shows that Mr. "I Want To" is full of crap. Even from that seat of power, he very rarely put forth anything of his own. The most he did was co-sponsor (in other words, stick his name on someone else's) a couple of bills. Beyond that, no intiative at all.

But now, all of a sudden, we're supposed to believe that he will take initiave, and get things done? Sorry, but you have to show talent in your previous job before I hire you to do another one.

Evil Vegeta · 08-04-2008

So, you're voting for McCain then, right?

SRP76 · 08-04-2008

Not necessarily. A third-party candidate still has time to emerge.

Deep Thought · 08-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRP76

Well, I won't be voting for Obama, that much is certain. He keeps saying "I want to...." this and that. Well, he's been sitting in the Senate for years. A quick check of votes and bills shows that Mr. "I Want To" is full of crap. Even from that seat of power, he very rarely put forth anything of his own. The most he did was co-sponsor (in other words, stick his name on someone else's) a couple of bills. Beyond that, no intiative at all.

But now, all of a sudden, we're supposed to believe that he will take initiave, and get things done? Sorry, but you have to show talent in your previous job before I hire you to do another one.

That's because one member of the senate, without the support of any others, can only do so much.

Dupe of USSJed · 08-04-2008

Perhaps he has done little, even taking that into account.

Skrrp · 08-04-2008

Havent read much of the thread, in work and busy. I'll have a better read later. But this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by USSJed

Anyway, I think its time for America to become a democracy, like the rest of the world.

BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA*gasp*HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAH*choke**giggle*

Point me to a country other than Switzerland that has democracy.

I live in the UK and we do not have democracy here.

Ames · 08-05-2008

@ USSJed,

Was that a typo? Or did you seriously mean what you said?

Dupe of USSJed · 08-05-2008

Fine, its timefor America to join the illusion of democracy.

Did I really have to spell it out for you?

Ames · 08-05-2008

No, I just thought that statement was completely wrong in every way. I'm not sure if you're creating a smart tone with me, using the typical passive-aggressive way to cover up arrogant/stupid remarks, or just goofing around?

Socialism seems like the answer you're looking for.

Dupe of USSJed · 08-05-2008

Quote:

Socialism seems like the answer you're looking for.

Explain

Ames · 08-05-2008

Socialism refers to any of various economic and political concepts of state or collective (i.e. public) ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods and services, some of which have been developed into more or less highly articulated theories and/or praxis. In a sense, the government does everything for you and shares compensation with everyone in that specific Global area, under free notion.

Democratic control is therefore also essential to the meaning of socialism. Socialism will be a society in which everybody will have the right to participate in the social decisions that affect them. These decisions could be on a wide range of issues—one of the most important kinds of decision, for example, would be how to organize the production of goods and services.

Production under socialism would be directly and solely for use. With the natural and technical resources of the world held in common and controlled democratically, the sole object of production would be to meet human needs. This would entail an end to buying, selling and money. Instead, we would take freely what we had communally produced. The old slogan of "from each according to ability, to each according to needs" would apply.

Furthermore, people have different specific needs under this new system of government, correct? These needs will, of course, vary among different cultures and with individual preferences—but the democratic system could easily be designed to provide for this variety. In socialism, everybody would have free access to the goods and services designed to directly meet their needs and there need be no system of payment for the work that each individual contributes to producing them. All work would be on a voluntary basis. Producing for needs means that people would engage in work that has a direct usefulness. The satisfaction that this would provide, along with the increased opportunity to shape working patterns and conditions, would bring about new attitudes to work.

What country are you from again, USSJed?

LegendaryBroli · 08-05-2008

Obama. I believe he would actually be good for us.

Skrrp · 08-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ames

[Long but accurate and knowledgable description of Scoialism.]

If anybody wants to learn more, in a story format, one of the best books I have read on the subject can be read for free here:

The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists by Robert Tressell - Project Gutenberg

For it straight from the horses mouth:

Economic Manuscripts: Capital Vol. I - Full Contents Listing

(Please don't blast me for not knowing the difference between Communism and Socialism (I do). Even though Capital comes from a Communist, it doesn't stop it being right, or applicable to Socialism.)

Ames · 08-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skrrp

If anybody wants to learn more, in a story format, one of the best books I have read on the subject can be read for free here:

The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists by Robert Tressell - Project Gutenberg

For it straight from the horses mouth:

Economic Manuscripts: Capital Vol. I - Full Contents Listing

(Please don't blast me for not knowing the difference between Communism and Socialism (I do). Even though Capital comes from a Communist, it doesn't stop it being right, or applicable to Socialism.)

I actually have been looking for something like these for a while, I appreciate the effort.

View Poll Results: Who do you want as the next President
Obama	18	58.06%
McCain	4	12.90%
Neither	3	9.68%
Don't care	6	19.35%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

08-04-2008	#16 (permalink)
Inu Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 3,078 Blog Entries: 5 Rep Power: 68	Re: Election 2009: Obama or McCain? I am the secret emperor of America.

08-04-2008	#17 (permalink)
SRP76 (23) Final Warrior Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,341 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 39	Re: Election 2009: Obama or McCain? Well, I won't be voting for Obama, that much is certain. He keeps saying "I want to...." this and that. Well, he's been sitting in the Senate for years. A quick check of votes and bills shows that Mr. "I Want To" is full of crap. Even from that seat of power, he very rarely put forth anything of his own. The most he did was co-sponsor (in other words, stick his name on someone else's) a couple of bills. Beyond that, no intiative at all. But now, all of a sudden, we're supposed to believe that he will take initiave, and get things done? Sorry, but you have to show talent in your previous job before I hire you to do another one.

08-04-2008	#19 (permalink)
SRP76 (23) Final Warrior Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,341 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 39	Re: Election 2009: Obama or McCain? Not necessarily. A third-party candidate still has time to emerge.

08-04-2008	#21 (permalink)
Dupe of USSJed (28) Lord of Worlds Join Date: May 2008 Location: drawing. Im kinda the best drawer in my class , not to brag or anything Posts: 7,501 Rep Power: 195	Re: Election 2009: Obama or McCain? Perhaps he has done little, even taking that into account. __________________ Is Tien fucking strong? Damn right he is. http://anime.myfavoritegames.com/ani...hs-humans.html SSJ3 Gotenks kicks ass btw.

08-05-2008	#23 (permalink)
Ames (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Omnipresent Posts: 1,284 Rep Power: 78	Re: Election 2009: Obama or McCain? @ USSJed, Was that a typo? Or did you seriously mean what you said? __________________ Ignorance is Bliss...

08-05-2008	#24 (permalink)
Dupe of USSJed (28) Lord of Worlds Join Date: May 2008 Location: drawing. Im kinda the best drawer in my class , not to brag or anything Posts: 7,501 Rep Power: 195	Re: Election 2009: Obama or McCain? Fine, its timefor America to join the illusion of democracy. Did I really have to spell it out for you? __________________ Is Tien fucking strong? Damn right he is. http://anime.myfavoritegames.com/ani...hs-humans.html SSJ3 Gotenks kicks ass btw.

08-05-2008	#25 (permalink)
Ames (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Omnipresent Posts: 1,284 Rep Power: 78	Re: Election 2009: Obama or McCain? No, I just thought that statement was completely wrong in every way. I'm not sure if you're creating a smart tone with me, using the typical passive-aggressive way to cover up arrogant/stupid remarks, or just goofing around? Socialism seems like the answer you're looking for. __________________ Ignorance is Bliss...

08-05-2008	#27 (permalink)
Ames (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Omnipresent Posts: 1,284 Rep Power: 78	Re: Election 2009: Obama or McCain? Socialism refers to any of various economic and political concepts of state or collective (i.e. public) ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods and services, some of which have been developed into more or less highly articulated theories and/or praxis. In a sense, the government does everything for you and shares compensation with everyone in that specific Global area, under free notion. Democratic control is therefore also essential to the meaning of socialism. Socialism will be a society in which everybody will have the right to participate in the social decisions that affect them. These decisions could be on a wide range of issues—one of the most important kinds of decision, for example, would be how to organize the production of goods and services. Production under socialism would be directly and solely for use. With the natural and technical resources of the world held in common and controlled democratically, the sole object of production would be to meet human needs. This would entail an end to buying, selling and money. Instead, we would take freely what we had communally produced. The old slogan of "from each according to ability, to each according to needs" would apply. Furthermore, people have different specific needs under this new system of government, correct? These needs will, of course, vary among different cultures and with individual preferences—but the democratic system could easily be designed to provide for this variety. In socialism, everybody would have free access to the goods and services designed to directly meet their needs and there need be no system of payment for the work that each individual contributes to producing them. All work would be on a voluntary basis. Producing for needs means that people would engage in work that has a direct usefulness. The satisfaction that this would provide, along with the increased opportunity to shape working patterns and conditions, would bring about new attitudes to work. What country are you from again, USSJed? __________________ Ignorance is Bliss...

08-05-2008	#28 (permalink)
LegendaryBroli (24) Super Saiyan 4 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 3,270 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 20	Re: Election 2009: Obama or McCain? Obama. I believe he would actually be good for us. __________________ row row fight da power!