Debate: disciplining childeren - Page 3

figg · 05-16-2008

Again, a little off topic with the politics...
To Hiro and OC:
I see your points. I suppose that violence, although not pleasant, can be quick, effective, and even deserving at times. I just don't see the need for hitting or spanking. It almost seems like the lazy man's punishment. As if the punishers, the parents in this case, can't take the time to talk to their kids and understand why they act up.
If I've learned anything from Super Nanny it's that violence does little but abuse your kids and confuse them. I don't think this generation of parents have become soft by letting go of spanking but rather improved through communication, although, admittedly, some of these new parents are a bit lost when it comes to punishment and give bad reputations to this newer form of time-outs, stern talking, and privilege withdrawing.

**Masked_Felix** · 05-16-2008

You make it seem like you spank the kid out of the blue. No, you explain to them what they did wrong and spank them. It's not abuse, and if you talk to them about it, they don't get confused. Time outs, privilege taking away, and so forth can be used in conjunction, but spanking lets kids know that there is a definite and very close to home repercussion to their wrongdoings. I don't get bored in time outs. I have an imagination. Take away privileges? Ok. I'll find something fun to do with whatever you don't take way. Spank me? There's no way to enjoy it. And I REALLY want to make sure that whatever I did to get it doesn't get repeated.

Lord_Sloth · 05-16-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by shotkeeper

I'm not white lol, So I do get spanked once a while lol, but not that seriously.

This, I do not get. I'm white and my parents enforced it as well. However, I never really gave them reason to do so. I was a good kid.

Empathy, why not do both? Give 'em a light swat AND take their PSP away?

Deep Thought · 05-16-2008

QUOTE=Beautiful Illusion;992623] No way. I do believe, however, that if a child is REALLY out of order (I'm not talking tantrums, or tears. I'm talking kicking/biting their parents, and resorting to actions and words children aren't technically supposed to use [though that's not clearly defined anymore]) then perhaps a firmer warning than just words should be taken.
[/quote]

I don't know what my views are on discipline are yet, but if my child bit me then I would spank him/her for hours, take away all his toys and confine him/her to their room for a month. Unless the child had a very good reason for doing so. Even then, I'd still probably spank him/her, because children don't bite their parents and stay unpunished.

figg · 05-16-2008

MF:
ANY form of hitting whether it be spanking, whacking, slapping, etc. is still a form of violence even if you think they deserve it. NO one deserves to be hit; it's just wrong.
You're not thinking like a kid when you say that you'd find something better to do if something was taken away from you. Obviously you would brush it off and realize there are other things to do, but that's not what kids think. Most kids would be pretty pissed if they couldn't go to a friend's birthday party or had their games taken away. Also, you wouldn't send a misbehaving kid to his/her room, that's like telling them to go to bed. You have to put them in time-out or make them do extra chores. Kids should EARN their privileges. Spanking does nothing but cause pain. In the job world, you would get a raise for working hard and would be demoted for doing something wrong. You wouldn't get punched by your boss and learn your lesson, that doesn't make sense...unless you're a boxer. Positive reenforcement is what you need to give kids so that they will learn that good deeds deserve rewards and misbehaving means undesirable outcomes.

**Masked_Felix** · 05-16-2008

No, it's not wrong. And yes, I was thinking like a kid, because that's what I DID as a kid when people that looked after after me and wouldn't give me the belt like my parents or eventual permanent baby sitter. Spanking causes pain that children associate with what they did wrong. You keep spouting this stuff making it seem like people beat their kids for the lulz, and the kids can't possibly learn anything from it. Welcome to the reality of thousands of years of successful parenting, figg.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-17-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deep thought

I don't know what my views are on discipline are yet, but if my child bit me then I would spank him/her for hours, take away all his toys and confine him/her to their room for a month. Unless the child had a very good reason for doing so. Even then, I'd still probably spank him/her, because children don't bite their parents and stay unpunished.

I can understand giving them some form of punishment, but why treat them so harshly? Children don't always understand the magnitude of their actions. That's what separates children from adults. Why do you think a child that, for whatever reason, kills another kid doesn't spend their life in a prison?

**Ace** · 05-17-2008

My dad spanked me many times when I was kid. Looking back, I remember the pain but not the reasons why. It made me hate my father, not respect him.

Personally, I think spanking is wrong. One of the many problems with spanking is that it can easily damage the parent/child relationship. It can also have an impact on the kid's self-image, as it certainly did in my case. There are other better ways to get the point across. A rarely-used severe scolding, for example. A raised voice can scare the shit out of a kid at least as effectively as a spanking can.

In the end, though, I think it's a parent's decision. It's not the kind of thing that can be judged outside of the context of a particular family. New Zealand recently passed an "anti-smacking" law that attempts to outlaw spanking. That's going way, way too far, IMO.

**Manic** · 05-17-2008

Quote:

Children don't always understand the magnitude of their actions.

But being hit gives them a pretty good idea.

If I had a kid and it drew all over the walls with permanent marker, you're damn right I'd beat its ass. Then I'd make it scrub and repaint them to drive the point home. You can bet they wouldn't do that again, unless they really liked the smell of paint.

Now, I'm sure there are ways to raise kids without spanking. But if spanking is also something that's long been known to bring sensible people into the world, why not? Unless a parent is hitting their kid incessantly for every little thing, it's not really anybody else's business how they raise their offspring. People should have better things to worry about, like their own lives.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-17-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace

A rarely-used severe scolding, for example. A raised voice can scare the shit out of a kid at least as effectively as a spanking can.

This. I honestly don't remember being spanked very often. I just knew that when my dad raised his voice, I'd better stop what I was doing or I'd be in deep shit. Of course, his constant yelling and scolding might have had some kind of psychological effects on me even now, as I often get extremely flustered when reprimanded by an authority figure. So perhaps neither method is perfect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic

But being hit gives them a pretty good idea.

If I had a kid and it drew all over the walls with permanent marker, you're damn right I'd beat its ass. Then I'd make it scrub and repaint them to drive the point home. You can bet they wouldn't do that again, unless they really liked the smell of paint.

I can understand smacking them, or perhaps a spanking, but I wouldn't exactly "spank him/her for hours, take away all his toys and confine him/her to their room for a month." (Deep Thought) I mean, my three cousins fight and bite all the time. That's because hey're 4, 6 and 7. They get hit a lot, but they still do the same shit anyway. Obviously hitting your kid isn't the only thing that's going to help.

As for your example, how does the child know that coloring on the walls is something you don't do? I could understand getting pissed if you talked with them when you bought them the crayons or markers, telling them, "hey, you only color on paper. Nothing else." But hey, kids will be kids, They live in the moment, often forgetting that their actions have consequences.

I don't know, I'm no expert.

Deep Thought · 05-17-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibi Mystic Gohan

I can understand giving them some form of punishment, but why treat them so harshly? Children don't always understand the magnitude of their actions. That's what separates children from adults. Why do you think a child that, for whatever reason, kills another kid doesn't spend their life in a prison?

I'm talking about if a 8 to 10 year old did this. I was also slightly exaggerating, I wouldn't spank them for hours, per se. To them, it would probably feel like hours, though. For a 5 to 7 year old, the punishment would be slighter, like I'd probably spank them for less time, give them a lecture and tell them to go to bed. For a 1 to 4 year old, I'd probably do nothing, maybe scold the 4 year old a little bit.

Seriously, though, if you let your child bite you, then they're going to not only think that that is okay, but they are going to walk over all over you in later life. You need to show them that you are in control and that you have power over them, because that's an important thing for them to know.

**JAIF** · 05-17-2008

Ultimate_Gohan and Chibi Mystic Gohan, this is a discussion about disciplining children, in the Lounge. If you want to discuss weed in this thread, that's fine too, as long as you do post something in relation to the topic at hand - else, you can go to the Gas Chamber.

On topic: A little spanking never hurt anyone.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-17-2008

You've called out the wrong Gohan, good sir.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deep thought

I'm talking about if a 8 to 10 year old did this. I was also slightly exaggerating, I wouldn't spank them for hours, per se. To them, it would probably feel like hours, though. For a 5 to 7 year old, the punishment would be slighter, like I'd probably spank them for less time, give them a lecture and tell them to go to bed. For a 1 to 4 year old, I'd probably do nothing, maybe scold the 4 year old a little bit.

Seriously, though, if you let your child bite you, then they're going to not only think that that is okay, but they are going to walk over all over you in later life. You need to show them that you are in control and that you have power over them, because that's an important thing for them to know.

My bad. I thought you were talking about the much younger children. That's because of personal experience, I suppose. Like I said earlier, my cousins bite.

But still, like I said, I never got hit, I was just yelled at. I think I behaved fine.

Deep Thought · 05-17-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibi Mystic Gohan

You've called out the wrong Gohan, good sir.

My bad. I thought you were talking about the much younger children. That's because of personal experience, I suppose. Like I said earlier, my cousins bite.

But still, like I said, I never got hit, I was just yelled at. I think I behaved fine.

I didn't really clarify the age, so it's easy to understand why you could make a mistake like that.

Same here, but then again, I never did anything bad enough to warrant a spanking. Except when I was younger, in which case, I think I got two spankings, dunno though, that was a while ago.

**Raven** · 05-17-2008

A guy at work said he hits his kid, he doesn't whoop him because he feels the belt is too much and they'll remember the punch better. He thinks of the belt as a whip apparently.

If a kid bites you, force soap into his mouth and make him bite it. He'll learn that biting is bad....and bitter.

05-16-2008	#31 (permalink)
figg (4) Turtle School Disciple Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Mixigen Posts: 25 Rep Power: 0	Re: Debate: disciplining childeren Again, a little off topic with the politics... To Hiro and OC: I see your points. I suppose that violence, although not pleasant, can be quick, effective, and even deserving at times. I just don't see the need for hitting or spanking. It almost seems like the lazy man's punishment. As if the punishers, the parents in this case, can't take the time to talk to their kids and understand why they act up. If I've learned anything from Super Nanny it's that violence does little but abuse your kids and confuse them. I don't think this generation of parents have become soft by letting go of spanking but rather improved through communication, although, admittedly, some of these new parents are a bit lost when it comes to punishment and give bad reputations to this newer form of time-outs, stern talking, and privilege withdrawing.

05-16-2008	#32 (permalink)
Masked_Felix Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Randland Posts: 4,106 Rep Power: 111	Re: Debate: disciplining childeren You make it seem like you spank the kid out of the blue. No, you explain to them what they did wrong and spank them. It's not abuse, and if you talk to them about it, they don't get confused. Time outs, privilege taking away, and so forth can be used in conjunction, but spanking lets kids know that there is a definite and very close to home repercussion to their wrongdoings. I don't get bored in time outs. I have an imagination. Take away privileges? Ok. I'll find something fun to do with whatever you don't take way. Spank me? There's no way to enjoy it. And I REALLY want to make sure that whatever I did to get it doesn't get repeated. __________________

05-16-2008	#35 (permalink)
figg (4) Turtle School Disciple Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Mixigen Posts: 25 Rep Power: 0	Re: Debate: disciplining childeren MF: ANY form of hitting whether it be spanking, whacking, slapping, etc. is still a form of violence even if you think they deserve it. NO one deserves to be hit; it's just wrong. You're not thinking like a kid when you say that you'd find something better to do if something was taken away from you. Obviously you would brush it off and realize there are other things to do, but that's not what kids think. Most kids would be pretty pissed if they couldn't go to a friend's birthday party or had their games taken away. Also, you wouldn't send a misbehaving kid to his/her room, that's like telling them to go to bed. You have to put them in time-out or make them do extra chores. Kids should EARN their privileges. Spanking does nothing but cause pain. In the job world, you would get a raise for working hard and would be demoted for doing something wrong. You wouldn't get punched by your boss and learn your lesson, that doesn't make sense...unless you're a boxer. Positive reenforcement is what you need to give kids so that they will learn that good deeds deserve rewards and misbehaving means undesirable outcomes.

05-16-2008	#36 (permalink)
Masked_Felix Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Randland Posts: 4,106 Rep Power: 111	Re: Debate: disciplining childeren No, it's not wrong. And yes, I was thinking like a kid, because that's what I DID as a kid when people that looked after after me and wouldn't give me the belt like my parents or eventual permanent baby sitter. Spanking causes pain that children associate with what they did wrong. You keep spouting this stuff making it seem like people beat their kids for the lulz, and the kids can't possibly learn anything from it. Welcome to the reality of thousands of years of successful parenting, figg. __________________ Last edited by Masked_Felix; 05-17-2008 at 03:23 AM. Reason: thinking*

05-17-2008	#38 (permalink)
Ace Administrator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Kami's Lookout Posts: 1,423 Rep Power: 200	Re: Debate: disciplining childeren My dad spanked me many times when I was kid. Looking back, I remember the pain but not the reasons why. It made me hate my father, not respect him. Personally, I think spanking is wrong. One of the many problems with spanking is that it can easily damage the parent/child relationship. It can also have an impact on the kid's self-image, as it certainly did in my case. There are other better ways to get the point across. A rarely-used severe scolding, for example. A raised voice can scare the shit out of a kid at least as effectively as a spanking can. In the end, though, I think it's a parent's decision. It's not the kind of thing that can be judged outside of the context of a particular family. New Zealand recently passed an "anti-smacking" law that attempts to outlaw spanking. That's going way, way too far, IMO.

05-17-2008	#42 (permalink)
JAIF Moderator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Piercing the Heavens and stuff. Posts: 5,839 Rep Power: 60	Re: Debate: disciplining childeren Ultimate_Gohan and Chibi Mystic Gohan, this is a discussion about disciplining children, in the Lounge. If you want to discuss weed in this thread, that's fine too, as long as you do post something in relation to the topic at hand - else, you can go to the Gas Chamber. On topic: A little spanking never hurt anyone. __________________ Empty until further notice.

05-17-2008	#45 (permalink)
Raven Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 4,899 Rep Power: 28	Re: Debate: disciplining childeren A guy at work said he hits his kid, he doesn't whoop him because he feels the belt is too much and they'll remember the punch better. He thinks of the belt as a whip apparently. If a kid bites you, force soap into his mouth and make him bite it. He'll learn that biting is bad....and bitter. __________________ Favorite Quotes: "Everyone dies, it's a natural part of life. But if your life has no meaning you're already dead." -Wolf's Rain, Kiba "Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost." -Fullmetal Alchemist, Alphonse Elric "It's not what folks say...it's what you answer to." -Madea Movie, Madea "Deploying resilience is more important than being a prodigy." -Life, Me