Ivan

Thunderf00t uses those people as placeholders for all Creationists, since they speak what many would say is the meat of literal Biblical beliefs. If he didn't use those people as examples and just took pieces of Biblical stories to refute, people would just be like "Well, nobody has said anything like this."

Masked_Felix

If it happened just like that, it would be retarded on the side of those people. Christianity isn't a buffet table. It's all or nothing. Either you believe that everything the Bible says is true and do your best to live accordingly, or you might as well drop it all and do whatever you want. Rejecting that piece because nobody 'said it' isn't a legitimate move.

I'd personally prefer he worked his argument using the Bible rather than people. Not that he would get especially far there either. Physical impossibilities become near worthless challenging the belief because if God is capable of performing supernatural miracles to cause something to be created, he's certainly capable of causing them to be taken away.

As for the other bit by Manic, yeah, it could happen like that, the universe extending forever giving limitless possibilities of life elsewhere. The concept of extending forever isn't as hard to grasp as the concept of existing forever in the opposite direction, though. When did the universe begin? When did time begin? It had to have a beginning, somewhere, and something had to launch that beginning, since nothing reacting with nothing and producing something surely can't happen. Unless you want to argue that it was always here, just morphing around for eternity in the past. Either way, it's hard to comprehend anything not having a beginning because it was always there, but it's easier to believe that there is a God that's always been there who caused the universe to begin, rather than the lifeless universe just...existing forever in the past by itself, randomly exploding and creating new things as a result of constant and eternal morphage.

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Empathy

ANB, you are truly an ignorant person if you believe Mao did more harm to the world than ADOLF HITLER did. More people died under Mao's government. Yes. Do you know how they died? No, you don't. They mostly died in the largest famine of all time. Stalin used famines to wipe out people in Ukraine. He used it as a mechanism of war. Mao simply did not have enough food to give to the millions and millions of citizens living in China. Besides, you can't only blame Mao for the Great Leap Forward. But you can't blame anyone besides Hitler himself for the Holocaust. (By the way, the total number of casualties was in fact 11 million- just over half were Jews, though). I think it's bullshit that you think it was exaggerated. Where did a third of the population go then? I think you need to start using your mind. Haven't you ever heard that commercial, "The mind is a terrible thing to waste?" I really hope the United Negro Foundation hasn't overlooked you.

My conclusion: Mao wasn't that bad. Hitler simply was. You're retarded if you think otherwise. Also, do you like my sig, ANB?

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ANB

-Mao still killed more people than Hitler. Ergo, your arguement fails :/

-I'm saying it's exaggerated in the notion that it was the "worst" catastrophie of all.

-"I'm retarded for thinking anyone was worse than Hitler" basically=You're Jewish (or you have a zeal for Zionism). It's a given now. If you said that to an anti-communist Chinese person they'd probably be furious.

-My quote in your sig...it was in reference to the fact Israel struck a dirty deal with Britain to get America into WWI. America was clueless of the shady politics going on. Germans lived under miserable economic conditions while the Jews thrived (it was comparible to apartheid). American newspapers that were pro-German suddenly became anti-German and America looked down on the immigrants from that country (possibly the work of Jews in control of the papers). Then what did they do...? Britain started carving out Middle-East lands (gained after the fall of the Ottomans) notibly Palestine. They slaughtered them just like the Native Americans. No wonder the Germans and Palestinians are pissed :/

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NarutoFan

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Empathy

Mao didn't "kill" people. People died under his rule. People die under every leader's rule. Thousands of people died even under Reagen. That's how the world works. People died of lack of food... the Holocaust was the greatest tragedy in our planet's history. You keep denying it, but you're not giving it any competition.

I'm still not Jewish. And you're wrong about the Chinese person. Mao is still worshiped by thousands of people. There are temples dedicated to praising Zedong still in effect today. You're still just saying things without actually looking into it. The Germans had almost nothing to do with the Middle East. The Ottoman Empire was a terrible and oppressive system that the world rejoiced the end of. The Middle East was practically open territory for the imperialistic British, yes, but how does Germany play into that? You can't blame Israel for the U.S.'s participation in WWI. We would've fought eventually.

Also, my avatar. It is Herschel Grynzpan. His parents were shipped to a concentration camp, so he walked into a Nazi embassy and shot an official dead. I bet that makes you mad that I'm respecting him, doesn't it, you Neo-Nazi.

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apocalypse1280

Hmm, reality. Like facts/science. Ya know I heard a funny story about how the world is getting a whole lot worse. Besides Global Warming, wars have gotten worse, famine, natural disasters, in some countries the crime rate alone is despicable. Actually, that was in the Bible before it ever happened. Another one said that scientists dissected a snake to study its skeletal system, only to find that snakes, through evolution, used to have legs. Ya know, I saw that in the bible too. I gotta say, "REALITY" is something else.

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90% of DragonBall fans detest DragonBall GT. If you're one of the 10% of fans who actually like GT, post this in your signature.

A direct quote from Akira Toriyama himself on DragonBall GT: "I enjoyed the show, felt it captured the "Dragonball soul", and was pleased with the conclusion." - Haha, bitches!

Island of 1,000 Condiments

I never once mentiond 4,000,000.

6,000,000 is the sum of Jews slaughtered.

11,000,000 is the combined sum of Jews, Gypsies, Russians, Poles, etc.


At the rest of your post, Empathy is doing a good job at answering it.

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apocalypse1280

Except it wasn't brought up as a comparison. Someone said "the bible was written by the same people who believed.....", and? If they believed that, and it wasn't written in the bible, then obviously people weren't just writing what they believed because they wanted others to blindly go along with it. It was the word of God.

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90% of DragonBall fans detest DragonBall GT. If you're one of the 10% of fans who actually like GT, post this in your signature.

A direct quote from Akira Toriyama himself on DragonBall GT: "I enjoyed the show, felt it captured the "Dragonball soul", and was pleased with the conclusion." - Haha, bitches!

Empathy

There was a supposed fossil discovered recently where a snake had two legs, but the Bible says that was about 6,000 years ago, while these scientists are using some large as hell number, like 90 million years ago. I don't want to discuss religion, evolution, etc. on here, but I will never agree that our planet is that old. No way.

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Super Cool

*Super Cool gets into the topic because it now involves Religion*

Religion > Scientific theories etc.

All of existence was made by god. He gave us free will which is sort of a bad thing cause people constantly sin and say religion is a fairy tale when in reality it's the real truth.

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Ivan

Apocalypse
How do you feel about "fundamentalists" taking Islam as an extremist religion, apocalypse? There are many people who would consider Islam a peaceful religion that involves only worship in their god, and not the eradication of people of another religion. Would you not say that those fundamentalists were simply manipulating the ambiguous writings (prominent in every religion) to reach a goal most convenient for their lives?

The way I see it is that religion started as a way of getting a free ride through most things. If you are a prophet, do you expect to be doing work? Nah, son. People believe everything you say regardless of how unrealistic and ridiculous it may seem, and would be willing to die or work for you to achieve the ultimate goals you preach. Many people may disagree with me, as it could easily go many other ways, but this is easily a possibility for any religion out there. How do we know there isn't a secret inter-religious organization out there, thinking of ways to con their followers and live the good life? This is what the Justice League fought and I'm sure Batman and the Green Lantern were ex-members of this group.

Felix
Belief-wise I guess you could say all scientific facts would appear irrelevant to the believer, but I fail to see the logic behind denying these kinds of things when it comes from the same groups of people who are willing to further mankind by doubting everything they say. Also, using the term "Christian" is kind of confusing since there are so many different directions people have taken the term in now.

Either way, I'd much rather believe in the people who were willing to disregard the suggestion that everything happens because of God's will and not because of some natural, explainable and resolvable reason. I'd much rather believe that humans are just a bunch of assholes which is resulting with many people dying more than because there are homosexuals in America we have soldiers dying overseas. I'd much rather believe in a group that is working to cure illnesses and disease and prolong human life more than I would a group that is trying to get people to think that regardless of how shitty their life is there is an eternal reservoir of happiness and non-sinning dead relatives awaiting them after their probably untimely and unsettling demise.

Go Justice League.

Super Cool

tl;dr

The bible is the world's only truth.

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Masked_Felix

I don't see why both can't be happening. Just because of belief in Salvation doesn't mean that you still can't work on medicines and advances for human kind.

I think that science is still generally applicable to the world around us, so it's not as if you believe in Creationism and the teachings of the Christ, you couldn't explain why things happen naturally. Miracles are a different story, of course.

At the term "Christian" being confusing, I completely understand. The groups of doctrines under it's umbrella are something I wish that would go away, and we can all just be part of a big group of people who believe in the teachings of Christ.

Lastly, I feel the need to point out that "non-sinners" is perhaps a skewed view of it. According to the Bible, everyone screws up and falls short of the glory of God. That's where Jesus' sacrifice comes in. It's not about being perfect, because, aside from Jesus, no one has, is, or can be. However, that doesn't mean just because you know you can be forgiven not do your best to live a sinless life.

I'm glad this has gone (ended?) in a civil manner. I was a little worried that tempers might pick up. Some people in the topic already seemed a little angry.