What do you think about overused franchises - Page 3

Super Cool · 09-06-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majuub

Megaman- It was once one of the best platformers of its time, it was only you, and your mega buster. One of the most difficult games back then, the level of frustration it brought when impossible bosses owned you but then you got their weakeness and suddenly, the fight was in your favor. As of today, it's pretty much a shadow of its former self, they try to put it back on the map, but we all know its time is over and it will never be as great as before.

I have to agree and disagree w/ you on some points. I agree that Pre X5 > any megaman game out there today but some of them are still good. I lost all hope for the X series and i don't even play the ones past X5. I think X1-5 were flawless and are the best. Although I once hated the BN games but once you get into them they're quite good. Same w/ Starforce. Zero's story is crap but the games are fun. ZX is good but it's cancelled :(

**Teecee** · 09-06-2008

If gamers want the new franchise games are said franchises really over-used?

**Majuub** · 09-06-2008

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Bomb mask, in case you had run out of bombs at some point. Bunny hood, to run much faster than normal. Great Fairy's mask, to help you locate the fairy's more easily (well, there goes your "hours of searching" for fairies bullshit). Stone mask, to keep enemies from seeing you. Then there were the five transformation masks, and various masks that did something entertaining (Kamaro mask, Circus Leader's mask, Gibdo mask, Mask of Scents, Bremen mask).

Point is, these masks do nothing that really changes the game. I didn't use the bomb mask often simply because I always had bombs. The Kamaro mask could make Link dance, big deal. Didn't I already talk about the Bunny Hood mask? There goes off my ''hours of searching bullshit'' there goes off with your ''exploring dungeons was more interesting'' bullshit. We could talk about all the masks, fact is, they did nothing that made the game so much better, sure, it was fun to use them, but what else? The optionnal masks didn't make the game, the essential masks made the game. The others were pretty much seen in OOT but they were given a use. Again, nothing new or fresh, just a little something more, I fail to see how these masks were so good. Garo Mask, yeah, it called the Garo Ninjas, you only needed it in Ikana's canyon. Stone mask? Almost never used it. Giant's Mask? Used it once against Twinmold, never used it again. The masks were fun to use, that's about it, don't try to give them more credit than they deserve.

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You are just putting down a huge piece of the game for the sake if helping your own argument. Everything you've said is basically "it sucks because it sucks."

I never said it sucked, I just said the masks weren't making the game, had the optionnal masks not be implemented, they could have easily been replaced by something else just as fun.

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You act like you won the Goron races the moment you took part in them, or even knew that there was gold powder behind a giant rock and needed to win the races to obtain it. Also, a trade quest? Getting the deed to the little deku flower needed one item. If that qualifies for being a quest, then collecting rupees to buy a slingshot must be a fucking trade quest.

You perfectly know there is a difference, getting rupee to by a slingshot is a horrible comparison. Have you played the other Zelda games aside from these two? Remember how you got the Noble Sword in Oracle of Seasons? Remember what you needed to do in Link's Awakening in order to obtain the len? I can pretty much go on for every Zelda games since I played them all. Also, you're blaming me for saying the mask part just sucks because it sucks(Even if I never said that) you on the other hand said the Biggoron's Sword quest sucked because it just sucked.

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You didn't enjoy the bosses. Big whoop.

I fail to see where I said I didn't enjoy the boss? Where are you getting all these informations from? I said being able to battle the bosses again and again was completely useless, the bosses weren't the ones from Ninja Gaiden, beating them over and over again won't make you a professional.

Let's review your points:
Masks

Quote:

-Because the masks don't have some huge part of the story and some tend to do little more than be entertaining and gain you heart pieces, it is unnecessary and dumb.
Complaint validity: none. Masks are entertaining, many useful, and some of them are just fun to run around in.

Alright? And? That's what you call innovative? You call that a breath of fresh air? Did it really deliver all the innovation OOT did? Don't make me laugh, the masks were fun as I said(and as you said) but nothing more. It's obvious, you're taking little, I mean very little parts of the game to say it is better than OOT, that my friend is laughable. The elements you're talking about are shallow, fun but shallow and surely not amazing to a point where MM can be considered as new, fresh and huge as OOT.

I won't even counter the rest as it is purely laughable. Why don't you talk about what really matters in a game? You could have went more in depth about the 3-days cycle, being able to modify the future, the creepy, mysterious and yet amazing world, the drastically improved level of difficulty of the whole game, the deeper, darker and sadder tone, the strange feel the game gave, it was a Zelda like no other. You never really talked about what was really important aside from shallow quests that could have been replaced by pretty much anything and it would have done shit to the game. I'm helping your argument because your points are so pathetic. Saying MM is better than OOT just because of masks and a sword quest is just funny. You seriously took the most unimportant elements of the game and tried to make them important.

I already openly admitted that MM was superior, only, it was too similar to OOT to be viewed as greater.

Graphics- Same engine, MM has enhance graphics, nothing impressive

Gameplay- Hey, still the same gameplay BUT the repeated three day-cycle

Music- Both had great production, matter of taste, don't put down OOT, its music was just as great as MM

Storyline- MM had a better storyline, althought slightly undevelopped, the game never told me where Majora really came from and what was the story behind the 4 Giants

Characters- Same characters, slightly altered, Romani= Kid Malon, Cremia= Adult Malon, Gorman= Ingo and so on. Pretty much OOT in a different universe.

All in all, MM is not as great simply because all the amazing elements in the game were already in OOT, it added a little something and that's about it. Too many similarities to give it the highest spot.

NarutoFan · 09-06-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majuub

The Legend of Zelda- I won't hide it, it's by far my favourite series ever and it will forever remain the greatest series of all time for me. Only thing though, they do too many 1.5 Zelda. By 1.5 I mean, most games if not all official Zelda games are great, it's just that, some could have been left as ideas. Majora's Mask was better than OOT but it looked way too much like it, that's why it failed to deliver a whole new experience. Wind Waker was pretty good and somehow new but in my opinion, it wasn't necessary. They aimed for the big hit with TP, unfortunately, it failed in my opinion, there was just too many great games and it was overshadowed. We must all face it, Zelda was once the most enormous franchise when it was OOT's time, but now, it's just a popular franchise that pretty much lost its magic touch.

How does the newer installments of the Zelda series sucking come to it being overused? All those games were years apart from one another.

**Ivan** · 09-06-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majuub

Point is, these masks do nothing that really changes the game. I didn't use the bomb mask often simply because I always had bombs. The Kamaro mask could make Link dance, big deal. Didn't I already talk about the Bunny Hood mask? There goes off my ''hours of searching bullshit'' there goes off with your ''exploring dungeons was more interesting'' bullshit. We could talk about all the masks, fact is, they did nothing that made the game so much better, sure, it was fun to use them, but what else? The optionnal masks didn't make the game, the essential masks made the game. The others were pretty much seen in OOT but they were given a use. Again, nothing new or fresh, just a little something more, I fail to see how these masks were so good. Garo Mask, yeah, it called the Garo Ninjas, you only needed it in Ikana's canyon. Stone mask? Almost never used it. Giant's Mask? Used it once against Twinmold, never used it again. The masks were fun to use, that's about it, don't try to give them more credit than they deserve.

The masks were a big part of the game. Just because they were optional and didn't have a direct tie to the game (aside from the game being based around a mask, and allowing you to obtain a mask more powerful than the powerful legendary mask that was being used to destroy the world) doesn't mean that they were pointless and uninteresting.

What do you expect these masks to be? They are all part of the storyline in some way. Every mask had a tie to somebody's life and they were all logged in the Bomber's Notebook if you completed the tasks with it. There was certainly a larger sense of fulfillment in completing the side quests of Majora's Mask and obtaining the masks than there were doing any of the quests in Ocarina of Time.

The atmosphere, music, characters, story, side quests, temples .. they were all done better than Ocarina of Time.

**Majuub** · 09-07-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halcyon

The masks were a big part of the game. Just because they were optional and didn't have a direct tie to the game (aside from the game being based around a mask, and allowing you to obtain a mask more powerful than the powerful legendary mask that was being used to destroy the world) doesn't mean that they were pointless and uninteresting.

What do you expect these masks to be? They are all part of the storyline in some way. Every mask had a tie to somebody's life and they were all logged in the Bomber's Notebook if you completed the tasks with it. There was certainly a larger sense of fulfillment in completing the side quests of Majora's Mask and obtaining the masks than there were doing any of the quests in Ocarina of Time.

The atmosphere, music, characters, story, side quests, temples .. they were all done better than Ocarina of Time.

I've already said that I agree with this. Majora's Mask is superior to Ocarina of Time in every and I mean every possible area. The point is, these games are way too similar and OOT is the originator, Majora's Mask lacks something called...innovation?? It was pretty much, the same items, same graphics, same game mechanics, same combat system, same everything aside for a few changes. Of course MM is an upgrade of OOT, if MM was released before OOT I would have labeled it as better hands down. I still have yet to see a Zelda game that is superior to MM. I don't know if you see what I mean. Yes MM was better but OOT pretty much gave it all before MM, that's why I don't rank it higher.

Honestly, what else do I need to add? I said countless times MM>OOT, we both agree, I fail to see the point of this argument.

**Ivan** · 09-07-2008

I don't understand how you still rank Ocarina of Time higher than Majora's Mask while you are saying that Majora's Mask is better. It's like saying you rank Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty higher than Substance because it came first and "gave it its all."

Island of 1,000 Condiments · 09-07-2008

Pokémon: I always thought Pokémon was a good series. It was an original, thought-out idea. The player was on a continent losely based on Japan and captured creatures called Pokémon to train and battle with. The original were the best, and they had designs that looked semi-realistic with that nice taste of cool. Johto was a complete and utter disgrace. It seemed more like filler than anything. Generation III brought back what I loved about Pokémon. The designs were smoothed back down, and the look and feel the originals had returned. Generation IV was complete crap. The Pokémon looked more like Digimon and didn't even resemble animals anymore. Although, there were some like Dusknoir that I liked. Arceus was win, but which came first - Arceus or Mew? Plot hole. Anyway, point is, the games advanced in capability, but they just grew to lack what made the originals shine. The originals seemed like superpowered animals. That was cool. They had simple and original designs. Now, Pokémon look odd.

**Majuub** · 09-07-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majuub

As you all know, some series of games have way too many games. What do you think about this, I mean, some have been around for almost 20years and hardly changed. Off the top of my head, here are some overused franchises:

The Legend of Zelda- I won't hide it, it's by far my favourite series ever and it will forever remain the greatest series of all time for me. Only thing though, they do too many 1.5 Zelda. By 1.5 I mean, most games if not all official Zelda games are great, it's just that, some could have been left as ideas. Majora's Mask was better than OOT but it looked way too much like it, that's why it failed to deliver a whole new experience. Wind Waker was pretty good and somehow new but in my opinion, it wasn't necessary. They aimed for the big hit with TP, unfortunately, it failed in my opinion, there was just too many great games and it was overshadowed. We must all face it, Zelda was once the most enormous franchise when it was OOT's time, but now, it's just a popular franchise that pretty much lost its magic touch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majuub

The happy mask quests was a side quest, it was just to obtain the Mask Of Truth, a mask that served no purpose aside from knowing the secret the stones of truth had to say. Almost all masks in Majora's Mask were useless, save for the three main masks and the Fierce Deity one, the Giant's Mask was a joke, you used it once against Twinmold and you could actually beat him without this mask. The others all have shallow features and are pretty much useless, cool the keaton masks allows you to talk to Keaton and he asks you question, if you answer you get rewards...and?? I could talk about all the masks in the games, but truly, most of the masks in MM were completely stupid and useless. It's a shame since they were a main focus in the game.

You have to be joking. Do you actually remember how we upgrade the Sword in MM? Simple, find the golden powder, give it to the black smith, and voila. Don't say it was more interesting, it wasn't interesting at all. It was quite simple and very amusing.

The Biggoron's sword quest in OOT is the trade quest. Most Zelda games have such a quest. The purpose is just trading items from characters to characters in order to get something good at the end of the quest. Zelda Majora's Mask is no exception, you do know the Land Title Deeds quest is kinda like the Biggoron's sword quest right?

Wow, what a great feature!! Collecting lost fairies. It is optionnal, it is annoying and it is stupid. In MM, you still do the exact same things as in OOT when it comes down to dungeon crawling, in no way searching for fairies makes the temples more interesting. It's a shallow addition, nothing more. Also, the purpose of collecting fairies was to see the Great Fairy, she gave you a power up, exactly like in OOT, in OOT, you didn't have to search for hours in a dungeon though. Same thing.

Yeah, 4 stupid bosses, 4! Fighting them again and again isn't what I'd call innovative. Yeah, it's cool, but what else, They don't get any stronger while you do. They become easier as you progress. Fighting bosses who keep getting easier, weaker(because you grow stronger), fuck yeah.

Yeah, the Anju and Kafei story was so explored. Please Zelda games were never really good with storylines, MM makes no exception. The game had more depth and realism, but it won't make us jump to the ceiling.

Both games had terrific music, it's a matter of taste. I personally find the OOT themse more memorable, but I liked those of MM better.

I already said it was a superior game. Unfortunately, the upgrades were too minimal to put it higher than OOT. It failed to deliver the same experience, it had a feeling of a recycled game. It's more of a Zelda 1.5. You can't expect people to put it higher than OOT when OOT gave it all it had despite being released years before. Fact is, when there is nothing new, the score takes a big hit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majuub

Point is, these masks do nothing that really changes the game. I didn't use the bomb mask often simply because I always had bombs. The Kamaro mask could make Link dance, big deal. Didn't I already talk about the Bunny Hood mask? There goes off my ''hours of searching bullshit'' there goes off with your ''exploring dungeons was more interesting'' bullshit. We could talk about all the masks, fact is, they did nothing that made the game so much better, sure, it was fun to use them, but what else? The optionnal masks didn't make the game, the essential masks made the game. The others were pretty much seen in OOT but they were given a use. Again, nothing new or fresh, just a little something more, I fail to see how these masks were so good. Garo Mask, yeah, it called the Garo Ninjas, you only needed it in Ikana's canyon. Stone mask? Almost never used it. Giant's Mask? Used it once against Twinmold, never used it again. The masks were fun to use, that's about it, don't try to give them more credit than they deserve.

I never said it sucked, I just said the masks weren't making the game, had the optionnal masks not be implemented, they could have easily been replaced by something else just as fun.

You perfectly know there is a difference, getting rupee to by a slingshot is a horrible comparison. Have you played the other Zelda games aside from these two? Remember how you got the Noble Sword in Oracle of Seasons? Remember what you needed to do in Link's Awakening in order to obtain the len? I can pretty much go on for every Zelda games since I played them all. Also, you're blaming me for saying the mask part just sucks because it sucks(Even if I never said that) you on the other hand said the Biggoron's Sword quest sucked because it just sucked.

I fail to see where I said I didn't enjoy the boss? Where are you getting all these informations from? I said being able to battle the bosses again and again was completely useless, the bosses weren't the ones from Ninja Gaiden, beating them over and over again won't make you a professional.

Let's review your points:
Masks

Alright? And? That's what you call innovative? You call that a breath of fresh air? Did it really deliver all the innovation OOT did? Don't make me laugh, the masks were fun as I said(and as you said) but nothing more. It's obvious, you're taking little, I mean very little parts of the game to say it is better than OOT, that my friend is laughable. The elements you're talking about are shallow, fun but shallow and surely not amazing to a point where MM can be considered as new, fresh and huge as OOT.

I won't even counter the rest as it is purely laughable. Why don't you talk about what really matters in a game? You could have went more in depth about the 3-days cycle, being able to modify the future, the creepy, mysterious and yet amazing world, the drastically improved level of difficulty of the whole game, the deeper, darker and sadder tone, the strange feel the game gave, it was a Zelda like no other. You never really talked about what was really important aside from shallow quests that could have been replaced by pretty much anything and it would have done shit to the game. I'm helping your argument because your points are so pathetic. Saying MM is better than OOT just because of masks and a sword quest is just funny. You seriously took the most unimportant elements of the game and tried to make them important.

I already openly admitted that MM was superior, only, it was too similar to OOT to be viewed as greater.

Graphics- Same engine, MM has enhance graphics, nothing impressive

Gameplay- Hey, still the same gameplay BUT the repeated three day-cycle

Music- Both had great production, matter of taste, don't put down OOT, its music was just as great as MM

Storyline- MM had a better storyline, althought slightly undevelopped, the game never told me where Majora really came from and what was the story behind the 4 Giants

Characters- Same characters, slightly altered, Romani= Kid Malon, Cremia= Adult Malon, Gorman= Ingo and so on. Pretty much OOT in a different universe.

All in all, MM is not as great simply because all the amazing elements in the game were already in OOT, it added a little something and that's about it. Too many similarities to give it the highest spot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majuub

I've already said that I agree with this. Majora's Mask is superior to Ocarina of Time in every and I mean every possible area. The point is, these games are way too similar and OOT is the originator, Majora's Mask lacks something called...innovation?? It was pretty much, the same items, same graphics, same game mechanics, same combat system, same everything aside for a few changes. Of course MM is an upgrade of OOT, if MM was released before OOT I would have labeled it as better hands down. I still have yet to see a Zelda game that is superior to MM. I don't know if you see what I mean. Yes MM was better but OOT pretty much gave it all before MM, that's why I don't rank it higher.

Honestly, what else do I need to add? I said countless times MM>OOT, we both agree, I fail to see the point of this argument.

That's why, a repeated game with very few enhancements doesn't deserve such praise.

**Ivan** · 09-07-2008

INNOVATION

Sorry that Majora's Mask took a working formula, improved it, and added several new things.

Madness · 09-08-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majuub

Well, the league changes each year, so, they must create a new game each year.

That sounded like sarcasm, was it?

09-06-2008	#32 (permalink)
Teecee Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,151 Blog Entries: 2 Rep Power: 99	Re: What do you think about overused franchises If gamers want the new franchise games are said franchises really over-used?

09-07-2008	#37 (permalink)
Ivan Moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Halcyon Posts: 3,222 Rep Power: 123	Re: What do you think about overused franchises I don't understand how you still rank Ocarina of Time higher than Majora's Mask while you are saying that Majora's Mask is better. It's like saying you rank Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty higher than Substance because it came first and "gave it its all." __________________ Brawl Tournament Discussion/Match-ups/Betting Brawl Tournament Topic

09-07-2008	#38 (permalink)
Island of 1,000 Condiments (28) Lord of Worlds Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 8,138 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 101	Re: What do you think about overused franchises Pokémon: I always thought Pokémon was a good series. It was an original, thought-out idea. The player was on a continent losely based on Japan and captured creatures called Pokémon to train and battle with. The original were the best, and they had designs that looked semi-realistic with that nice taste of cool. Johto was a complete and utter disgrace. It seemed more like filler than anything. Generation III brought back what I loved about Pokémon. The designs were smoothed back down, and the look and feel the originals had returned. Generation IV was complete crap. The Pokémon looked more like Digimon and didn't even resemble animals anymore. Although, there were some like Dusknoir that I liked. Arceus was win, but which came first - Arceus or Mew? Plot hole. Anyway, point is, the games advanced in capability, but they just grew to lack what made the originals shine. The originals seemed like superpowered animals. That was cool. They had simple and original designs. Now, Pokémon look odd. __________________

09-07-2008	#40 (permalink)
Ivan Moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Halcyon Posts: 3,222 Rep Power: 123	Re: What do you think about overused franchises INNOVATION Sorry that Majora's Mask took a working formula, improved it, and added several new things. __________________ Brawl Tournament Discussion/Match-ups/Betting Brawl Tournament Topic