Joot

Mike Shinoda, I heard that a lot, but I can't get down with it.. (lol, never used that one before) He's... not that good to me. =/

I agree with back in the day part about Em and the overratedness of Pac. He wasn't lyrical, he was just real with his shit.

Chino's cool, just not my style. Same with Common. But the intro to Be is my shit. RIP J Dilla.

Never really gave Lauryn Hill a good listen. Recommend any specific songs?

EDIT: Lmao. You're too accustomed to posting in the Gas Chamber.

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JhonCaves

Mike Shinoda... man.. the way he laces his lyrics together is just genius. Have you heard The Rising Tied? best album of 2005.
Chino is just an awesome battle rapper. lol... his metaphors be crazy sometimes.
Lauryn is just great. lol... man...
Her entire solo Cd was genius...her verses on the score were just awing.

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Majuub

No offense but, if you're white, you'll miss some of his lyrics. And lol, calling 2Pac overrated when you have Mike Shinoda in that list.

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JhonCaves

Wow. That's probably the dumbest thing I ever heard. Okay, it's not, but it's a close third.

Just because I'm white, I can't connect to the hardships 'Pac addressed in his songs?
Right. Because white people are never screwed by the system, and white people aren't poor and don't live in the ghetto.

Well, let me just tell you that I'm not white. I'm Mexican, and.... I live in south central. Trust me, Tupac is a God around here. Which is precisely why I think he's over rated. He wasn't the only rapper that was talking about the subjects he addressed, he was just the guy people payed attention to. What's also funny to me, is that people never talked about him being a great lyricist until he died. lol. Pac was a lot of great things, but a great lyrical MC he wasn't in my opinion. He knew how to convey emotion, he knew how to be effective and he knew how to pimp his image. I'm not saying he's bad or anything. He's top ten. But he's just not that impressive lyrically.

Mike Shinoda can rap circles around pretty much all rappers out right now.

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Majuub

I never called you white, I said if you're white you'll miss some lyrics in his songs. Like White Menz World or Keep ya head up.

2Pac was a great lyricist because he was the Mr spit the truth from back then, you could feel him more than every rapper out there. He wasn't an hypocrite like Jay-Z or Nas are. They diss each other and soon after you see Nas in Jay-Z's video. His lyrics were much more emotionnally driven and more meaningful than anything Nas ever spitted. Of course Nas has the edge concerning the complexity and with his vivid descriptions and excellent metaphors. Still, he wasn't as true as 2Pac and Pac heavily inspired him like he did with a lot of rappers. The coast wars and his strange death just prove he was no joke and not just in the industry to spit lines. He was an activist and poet like you've never seen before. To understand 2Pac you have to link the rapper with the person and the lyrics with the actions. Also, why would people pay attention more to him while there were great lyricists in his time, it's simple, he was just ahead of those guys, not in terms of raw skills but in terms of depth and inspiration. Oh and, Nas flow was shit back then.

I didn't say Mike Shinoda sucks, I said it was ridiculous to call 2Pac overrated and to put Shinoda in your lists. Of course he can own rappers such as Soulja Boy or Hurricane Chris, but does he compare to Crooked I, Mos Def, Pharaoe Monch or Common. Prodigy in his prime was leaps and bounds ahead of Shinoda and pretty much every rapper today. If you're talking about raw skills, here are my choices:

Big L

Ras Kass

CanIbus

Eminem

Mos Def

Method Man(Back then)

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JhonCaves

Well see to me that isn't a lyricist. That's a poet. Lyricism is a skill, and that is how I rank when asked to list my top lyricist.

I'd take Shinoda over Crooked, Monch and Prodigy actually.


edit:

word @ method man.... and big l

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dragontigerviper

Your all going to hate me for this, but the person/group whom I think has the best lyrical styling is the band Eve6 (they write all of their songs collectively, so there really isn't one person who can be given credit.)

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JhonCaves

lol^

"here's to the night we felt alive"

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Majuub

You also label Common as a gangsta rapper, that show how much you know about rap.

You can take Shinoda over Prodigy now, but the Prodigy from The Infamous, just no. You don't seem to have hard much from Pharaoe Monch because he's in the same league as Mos Def, I also seriously doubt you've heard much from Crooked I.

Isn't a lyricist a poet? They even call themselves that way and you're telling me it's different? That's the same thing, an emcee is a street poet. he speaks like Shakespear but from a point of view of the streets. That's why the focus so much on wordplay and metaphores, they try to teach something to the listenenr and just transport you in their reality when they spit. That's why I loved Nas back then but I just can't stand him anymore, he was great but now you listen to him and it's just bullshit. 2Pac and Biggie were the amongst the rare ones who constantly released draw dropping albums and always had good lyrics without falling from Illmatic to Nastradamus. You're not the first one I see calling 2Pac overrated by the way and most of those who say this just have listenend to tracks such as 2 of Amerikaz most wanted or Hit'em up.

Street Poetry: 2Pac takes it

Emotion: 2Pac takes it

Truth: 2Pac takes it

Word play: Biggie takes it

Metaphores: Gza with liquid swordz, Nuff said

Flow: Mos Def has a good flow, but some rappers like Bone Thugs-N-Harmony specialize in this category

Complexity: Nas(Illmatic just kills EVERYTHING)

Intelligence: Ras Kass and CanIbus

Just a question like that, what do you think is the best album from 2Pac? Also, which song of Crooked I did you listen too?

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NarutoFan

Being lyrical isn't about emotion, subject matter, etc. It's about having skill in the mechanics of rapping, wordplay, punchlines, complex rhyme schemes etc., and being skilled at being able to multie (Tupac is rather simple) is especially well-received.

2Pac and Biggie were the amongst the rare ones who constantly released draw dropping albums

Biggie had two albums when he was alive. :O

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HerrGeiger

What the hell is lyricism or lyricist?

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Majuub

Being lyrical is putting words in a way they hit, that's why there are some rappers who have different technics than others. If you've listen to All Eyez on me, of course it's simple. It's for the average pseudo-rap fan, it was just meant as a celebration of life and more gangsta oriented. Ice Cube is extremely skilled but is rhyme scheme is rather simple he's more straight forward, it's just punchline after punchline. People seem to think you have to be complex to be skilled when it isn't the case, if so than Ras Kass and CanIbus are the most skilled rappers because they are more complex than Nas or Biggie.

Bigge dropped a classic that was hardly matched, then he dropped something even better. 2Pac dropped 2Pacalypse now which was great, strictly for my niggaz that was even better, Me Against the World which is a masterpiece, All eyez on me which is also a masterpiece and Makaveli 7 days Theory which is HIS masterpiece. Thug Life was great but extremely underrated. Nas dropped Illmatic and never repeated this success, Jay-Z dropped Reasonable Doubt and never did better.

Anyone can be complex in their rhymes if they want to. A good lyricist is someone who knows how to choose his words and who knows the way to spit them at the right time. His lyrics will make you think and sometimes will change the perception you had of something, his lyrics hit and you feel them, not because they are complex but because they are real and he knows how to slap you with a bit of reality in your face because he knows how to spit. Nas dropped one album I consider a classic, 2Pac has 3/6 classic albums, Biggie has 2/2 and these albums are widely considered to be the best among the rap community.

2Pac had a street poetry like no one else and that surely falls into the skills category, he was the most influencial individual rapper. Why?? Because of his lyrics, some rappers even consider him as the best there ever was and yet you say he isn't a top lyricist?? Damn, if an Emcee doesn't know what a lyricist is than I wonder who knows that.

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NarutoFan

I just have to mention how this topic is about the best lyricist, not best rapper.

That isn't being lyrical, dude. Being lyrical is being good on paper, being able to do multi syllable rhymes, wordplay, punchlines, complex rhyme schemes, inner rhymes, and so forth. Being lyrical has nothing to with your subject matter, flow, or anything else.

IMO, Tupac only has one classic, and that's Me Against The World. His other albums before that are rather generic (save a couple songs), All Eyez On Me's filler kills me, and the 7 Days Theory is good. I prefer all the rappers you discussed after him.

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G.O.A.T.

My shitty worthless opinion:

Immortal Technique

Nas

Rakim

Jedi Mind Tricks [Collective]

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Empathy

John Lennon, Paul Simon, Art Garfunkel, Billy Joel, and above all else, Bob Dylan.

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