Dude, Sensui is weak.

ANB · 05-10-2008

This is exactly what I've been talking about in the notorious DBZ v. YYH debates:

Keep in mind this is waaay back in the Saiyajin saga. Now, the following pages address the common arguement Sensui is stronger than even the Boo saga characters since he can destroy the Earth with "Less than 50%" of his full-power (Or 1/5 or 1/10 depending on the translation):

^Sensui is using his FULL-POWER in Makai and it's having the same effect as that. It goes to show how incredibly unstable Ningenkai is (compared to DBZ's world) and Sensui's relative weakness as well. There is another scene where Hiei is tapping into his A-class power and it looks the same as Nappa's initial power-up.

Toguro, at 120%, was mentioned by Darkprince to only be 600. The power-ladder is getting pretty fecking obvious.

You're next Raizen ;)

Cableguy15 · 05-10-2008

He's not weak:

Yu Yu Hakusho 150 page 08 | One Manga
Yu Yu Hakusho 150 page 09 | One Manga

Ya... That's the shockwave of his punch destroying half a plateau :/

I'd like some proof that DBZ's earth is more durable than YYH's too... I don't see anything suggesting that.

Personally, I don't judge by size of explosions or how they power up, but intensity of the fights. That makes the most sense to me anyway...

Kurushimi · 05-10-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

^Sensui is using his FULL-POWER in Makai and it's having the same effect as that. It goes to show how incredibly unstable Ningenkai is (compared to DBZ's world) and Sensui's relative weakness as well.

Or it could show how incredibly stable the Makai world was. =/

It would be just to compare the Earth of DBZ and YYH as there is no reason why one should be different from the other.

**Zer0** · 05-10-2008

I thought Makai was a far more stable realm then Ningenkai?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

Toguro, at 120%, was mentioned by Darkprince to only be 600. The power-ladder is getting pretty fecking obvious.

And that still doesn't compute. According to that logic Choji and Rock Lee would pwn the strongest Dragonball characters. An unreleased Aizen would own like...true form Freeza. :/

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-10-2008

I recall Darkprince's theory that Genkai at her strongest couldn't be higher than Gohan was when he was enraged at the start of the series. Compare:

To the large blast Genkai does to a mountain (?) during the Dark Tournament. Anyone have scans?

**Manic** · 05-10-2008

Here you go:

http://img13.onemanga.com/mangas/000...0000076/16.jpg

http://img13.onemanga.com/mangas/000...0000076/17.jpg

http://img13.onemanga.com/mangas/000...0000076/18.jpg

http://img13.onemanga.com/mangas/000...0000076/19.jpg

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-10-2008

Hmm. It's not even as big.

G-lord · 05-10-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurushimi

Or it could show how incredibly stable the Makai world was. =/

It would be just to compare the Earth of DBZ and YYH as there is no reason why one should be different from the other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer0

I thought Makai was a far more stable realm then Ningenkai?

Exactamundo. Makai >>> Ningenkai. It's one of the reasons why Sensui moved the fight from Ningenkai to Makai. The physical universe couldn't even take 50%. Makai could take that level of power with minor damage.

The effect of Sensui's power-up on the Human Realm at 0%:

The effect of Sensui's power-up at the exact same level on Makai:

Makai was infinitely less affected than Ningenkai by the same amount of power. I don't even see how ANB's scans prove anything about Sensui being weak. I guess it's why everyone else is not convinced either. Power-ups don't prove anything about a person's true overall power level. This has all been debated before. The geneal consensus was that Sensui and S- classes are a great deal stronger than most DBZ characters.

Toguro's power-up was more impressive than Sensui's and Goku's combined power-ups in the scans posted by ANB. His power-up made craters, ripped demons apart and blasted entire chunks of the stadium and sent them flying:

And this is just 100% (and not his "100% beyond 100%" form). This doesn't mean he'd eat Goku and Sensui for breakfast. Also, just for some others in this thread, Genkai never blew up a mountain. It was just a boulder.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-10-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-lord

Also, just for some others in this thread, Genkai never blew up a mountain. It was just a boulder.

Well, I know that now. But regardless, the damage left seems to be less than Gohan's (in the scans I posted above), and the maximum power we've seem him reach at the time was 1,307 (and this is when his father was being killed; he could have been at 600 in the above scene for all we know). Now, let's just say Gohan's power level was 1,000 in that scene for simplicity's sake. In order for the top tier characters in Yu Yu Hakusho to even reach one million, they would have to be about a thousand times stronger than Genkai was in the Dark Tournament (as she said that blast was her full power, didn't she?). Goku's power level was 150,000,000 when he transformed into a Super Saiyan. There is no way Yusuke or Sensui could be stronger than any high tier Dragon Ball characters.

Nefelpitou · 05-10-2008

^ Genkai's blast wouldn't have been too far out of the highest C+ class range. Even the strongest B+ classes are not really all that strong in YYH. They are almost endlessly weak in comparison to the weakest of A- classes. I remember Koenma stating that the countless number of B class and also the hordes of lower class demons in Makai are preferable to just one ofthe weakest of the weak A- classes in Makai. A classes are godlike in comparison to B classes, as just one of the weakest A- classes could effortlessly slaughter the countless hordes of B classes in Makai, even if they attacked the A- class all at once. Sensui stated that the stronger A classes have powers equivalent to the gods of myth and legends.

Even then, that's within the limits of normal YYH demon power. S classes are on another league to all YYH demons altogether. Often, S classes are treated very differently to all other YYH demons. They are just on another level entirely.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-10-2008

Sorry, I'm not well versed in the post-Dark Tournament Yu Yu Hakusho stuff. I've literally only seen until the end of the tournament (actually, I watched the episode after, where he did his Shotgun attack to some thugs and those psychic (?) kids confront him). All of my knowledge of the characters and events after that come from the Internet and playing the card game back in the day.

Anyway, are you then saying that Genkai is a B class in the series? (I have limited familiarity with the class system.) Because that means Yusuke was at one point at that level as well, before the power up Genkai gave him and that some demon power up he gets later that I've heard of. But can he really be (according to my calculations) a thousand times stronger than her at that point? And even if he was, that would still only put him on par with second form Freeza, who estimated himself to have a battle power of one million. Super Saiyan Goku was 150 times stronger than that himself, and the gap only gets larger with each successive transformation.

G-lord · 05-10-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibi Mystic Gohan

Well, I know that now. But regardless, the damage left seems to be less than Gohan's (in the scans I posted above), and the maximum power we've seem him reach at the time was 1,307 (and this is when his father was being killed; he could have been at 600 in the above scene for all we know). Now, let's just say Gohan's power level was 1,000 in that scene for simplicity's sake. In order for the top tier characters in Yu Yu Hakusho to even reach one million, they would have to be about a thousand times stronger than Genkai was in the Dark Tournament (as she said that blast was her full power, didn't she?). Goku's power level was 150,000,000 when he transformed into a Super Saiyan. There is no way Yusuke or Sensui could be stronger than any high tier Dragon Ball characters.

Haha, stupid me. I guess it was stupid of me mentioning Genkai smashing a boulder after the scans were posted. I'm 100% sure that S classes are way more than a thousand times stronger than Genkai. Some would even say A classes are way more than 1000x Genkai.

If you want my personal opinion on Genkai's power level when she did that boulder-smashing Rei Gun, I'd say it was a low B-. She performed the same attack on Toguro at 80%, and it didn't even scratch him. Toguro was a mid B class at the time. But, for a mid B class, Toguro was strong. As for Toguro at 120%, I wouldn't put him too much into the early 100's in terms of DBZ power levels. With the obvious exception of Master Roshi, I'd say he'd be within the realms of 21st and 22nd Budokai fighters. This is for the Manga. The Anime version of Toguro was portrayed with a few extra feats that made him look way stronger than he ever was portrayed in the Manga.

For A classes, I'm undecided. They are described as being very powerful. At the lower A- class levels, they are stonger than all the lesser demons in Makai combined. At the upper A+ class levels, they are compared to legendary gods. Think Thor or Odin from Marvel. As for the S classes, they are...it's hard to describe just how far above the A classes they are, much less every other demon in YYH. Sensui could eliminate the entire physical realm (the main universe) just by going up to 50%. He had to go to another infinitely more stable plane of existence to fight at 100%, and also to transform into more powerful forms beyond his normal 100%. Sensui was also a very weak S- class, too.

Lord_Sloth · 05-10-2008

Sensui>>Toguro

Toguro's handiwork on the right with a mere punch while at only 80%. He can get to 120% if memory serves. When have we seen any1 in DBZ do that kind of damage with a physical assault?

Toguro was a B class demon. Sensui was a match for S class. Toguro did Both of those while not even at B as he was at 80/120.

*tilts head*

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-10-2008

Dragon Ball characters never punch the ground like idiots. They do worse with their ki attacks.

Lord_Sloth · 05-10-2008

How bout when Majin Vegeta was punching Goku against the rocks? Would the force not have carried through?

And BTW, when you're 7'0 and swing at swift midgets, you're bound to hit the ground once or twice.

05-10-2008	#1 (permalink)
ANB (23) Final Warrior Join Date: May 2006 Location: The Natives are restless... Posts: 2,641 Rep Power: 14	Dude, Sensui is weak. This is exactly what I've been talking about in the notorious DBZ v. YYH debates: Keep in mind this is waaay back in the Saiyajin saga. Now, the following pages address the common arguement Sensui is stronger than even the Boo saga characters since he can destroy the Earth with "Less than 50%" of his full-power (Or 1/5 or 1/10 depending on the translation): ^Sensui is using his FULL-POWER in Makai and it's having the same effect as that. It goes to show how incredibly unstable Ningenkai is (compared to DBZ's world) and Sensui's relative weakness as well. There is another scene where Hiei is tapping into his A-class power and it looks the same as Nappa's initial power-up. Toguro, at 120%, was mentioned by Darkprince to only be 600. The power-ladder is getting pretty fecking obvious. You're next Raizen ;) __________________ Were they created by nothing? Or were they themselves the creators (of themselves)? Or did they create heaven and earth? Nay, but they are not sure. (52:35-36)

05-10-2008	#2 (permalink)
Cableguy15 (16) Master of Kaio-ken Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 618 Rep Power: 2	Re: Dude, Sensui is weak. He's not weak: Yu Yu Hakusho 150 page 08 \| One Manga Yu Yu Hakusho 150 page 09 \| One Manga Ya... That's the shockwave of his punch destroying half a plateau :/ I'd like some proof that DBZ's earth is more durable than YYH's too... I don't see anything suggesting that. Personally, I don't judge by size of explosions or how they power up, but intensity of the fights. That makes the most sense to me anyway... __________________ Dragonball Z Power levels: http://anime.myfavoritegames.com/ani...er-levels.html Dragonball Z Movie Power levels: http://anime.myfavoritegames.com/ani...er-levels.html

05-10-2008	#5 (permalink)
Chibi Mystic Gohan (21) Majin Warrior Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Surrounded by dickgirls Posts: 1,631 Rep Power: 44	Re: Dude, Sensui is weak. I recall Darkprince's theory that Genkai at her strongest couldn't be higher than Gohan was when he was enraged at the start of the series. Compare: To the large blast Genkai does to a mountain (?) during the Dark Tournament. Anyone have scans? __________________ "Words don't exist so that we can tell the truth; they exist so that we can conceal the truth" - ZOMBIEPOWDER.* Volume 02*

05-10-2008	#6 (permalink)
Manic Super Moderator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Georgia, US Posts: 1,835 Rep Power: 20	Re: Dude, Sensui is weak. Here you go: http://img13.onemanga.com/mangas/000...0000076/16.jpg http://img13.onemanga.com/mangas/000...0000076/17.jpg http://img13.onemanga.com/mangas/000...0000076/18.jpg http://img13.onemanga.com/mangas/000...0000076/19.jpg __________________

05-10-2008	#7 (permalink)
Chibi Mystic Gohan (21) Majin Warrior Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Surrounded by dickgirls Posts: 1,631 Rep Power: 44	Re: Dude, Sensui is weak. Hmm. It's not even as big. __________________ "Words don't exist so that we can tell the truth; they exist so that we can conceal the truth" - ZOMBIEPOWDER.* Volume 02*

05-10-2008	#10 (permalink)
Nefelpitou (2) Farmer w/Shotgun Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 11 Rep Power: 0	Re: Dude, Sensui is weak. ^ Genkai's blast wouldn't have been too far out of the highest C+ class range. Even the strongest B+ classes are not really all that strong in YYH. They are almost endlessly weak in comparison to the weakest of A- classes. I remember Koenma stating that the countless number of B class and also the hordes of lower class demons in Makai are preferable to just one ofthe weakest of the weak A- classes in Makai. A classes are godlike in comparison to B classes, as just one of the weakest A- classes could effortlessly slaughter the countless hordes of B classes in Makai, even if they attacked the A- class all at once. Sensui stated that the stronger A classes have powers equivalent to the gods of myth and legends. Even then, that's within the limits of normal YYH demon power. S classes are on another league to all YYH demons altogether. Often, S classes are treated very differently to all other YYH demons. They are just on another level entirely.

05-10-2008	#11 (permalink)
Chibi Mystic Gohan (21) Majin Warrior Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Surrounded by dickgirls Posts: 1,631 Rep Power: 44	Re: Dude, Sensui is weak. Sorry, I'm not well versed in the post-Dark Tournament Yu Yu Hakusho stuff. I've literally only seen until the end of the tournament (actually, I watched the episode after, where he did his Shotgun attack to some thugs and those psychic (?) kids confront him). All of my knowledge of the characters and events after that come from the Internet and playing the card game back in the day. Anyway, are you then saying that Genkai is a B class in the series? (I have limited familiarity with the class system.) Because that means Yusuke was at one point at that level as well, before the power up Genkai gave him and that some demon power up he gets later that I've heard of. But can he really be (according to my calculations) a thousand times stronger than her at that point? And even if he was, that would still only put him on par with second form Freeza, who estimated himself to have a battle power of one million. Super Saiyan Goku was 150 times stronger than that himself, and the gap only gets larger with each successive transformation. __________________ "Words don't exist so that we can tell the truth; they exist so that we can conceal the truth" - ZOMBIEPOWDER.* Volume 02*

05-10-2008	#13 (permalink)
Lord_Sloth (28) Lord of Worlds Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Douglasville Georgia Posts: 7,360 Rep Power: 29	Re: Dude, Sensui is weak. Sensui>>Toguro Toguro's handiwork on the right with a mere punch while at only 80%. He can get to 120% if memory serves. When have we seen any1 in DBZ do that kind of damage with a physical assault? Toguro was a B class demon. Sensui was a match for S class. Toguro did Both of those while not even at B as he was at 80/120. tilts head __________________ Lord_Sloth's Theme Song Brawl Code=0645-5430-9597==Wii Code=7378-2898-7096-7882==PSN=Lord_Sloth "You can't help it. You can't fight it. You can't accept it. You just have to leave everything related to it because you couldn't get what you chose." ~Evil Dark Knight http://cristgaming.com/pirate.swf

05-10-2008	#14 (permalink)
Chibi Mystic Gohan (21) Majin Warrior Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Surrounded by dickgirls Posts: 1,631 Rep Power: 44	Re: Dude, Sensui is weak. Dragon Ball characters never punch the ground like idiots. They do worse with their ki attacks. __________________ "Words don't exist so that we can tell the truth; they exist so that we can conceal the truth" - ZOMBIEPOWDER.* Volume 02*

05-10-2008	#15 (permalink)
Lord_Sloth (28) Lord of Worlds Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Douglasville Georgia Posts: 7,360 Rep Power: 29	Re: Dude, Sensui is weak. How bout when Majin Vegeta was punching Goku against the rocks? Would the force not have carried through? And BTW, when you're 7'0 and swing at swift midgets, you're bound to hit the ground once or twice. __________________ Lord_Sloth's Theme Song Brawl Code=0645-5430-9597==Wii Code=7378-2898-7096-7882==PSN=Lord_Sloth "You can't help it. You can't fight it. You can't accept it. You just have to leave everything related to it because you couldn't get what you chose." ~Evil Dark Knight http://cristgaming.com/pirate.swf