Dude, Sensui is weak. - Page 2

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-10-2008

That was some delicious anime filler. But speaking of huge rock structures, Dragon Ball characters get sent flying all the time and break them apart.

Lord_Sloth · 05-10-2008

Never read Dragonball or Z so the anime is all I have to go off of.

Cableguy15 · 05-10-2008

Toguro wasn't an idiot. The first crater he made was an attempt to punch Genkai in the head (She's below 4ft tall so it's no surprise with a guy who must have been atleast 8 ft tall.), and the other one was on purpose to see if Yusuke was worthy of his 100%.

**Island of 1,000 Condiments** · 05-10-2008

@ANB: I believe your first post compared the amount of destruction two characters could create via powering-up. There is one major flaw in that. Yu Yu Hakusho and Dragonball/Z are not done by the same author. Destructive power in one is different from destructive power in another. Also, release of power is different. Not everyone can just spew spiritual energy from their pores. Meaning, two characters could power-up. One creates a big, flashy explosion of energy. Another does less. Does that mean the former is stronger than the latter? No, it means that the energy in Z is less concentrated. Think of two currencies. Lets take the US dollar and the Euro. Essentially, they do the same thing. They allow the purchase of goods. However, are they worth the same? No, they're not. It takes more US dollars to do the same thing that a few Euros could do. Don't try to make things linear, it won't work. It just pisses me off whenever members try to give Yu Yu Hakusho characters a Power Level or give Dragonball/Z characters Databook Stats. It does not work. Two difference series. They are not linear.The energy types are not linear. They may do the same thing, but are they equal in terms of power? No.

**Nikushimi** · 05-10-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

^Sensui is using his FULL-POWER in Makai and it's having the same effect as that. It goes to show how incredibly unstable Ningenkai is (compared to DBZ's world) and Sensui's relative weakness as well. There is another scene where Hiei is tapping into his A-class power and it looks the same as Nappa's initial power-up.

Toguro, at 120%, was mentioned by Darkprince to only be 600. The power-ladder is getting pretty fecking obvious.

You're next Raizen ;)

"Ningenkai" is the human world- the same "world" DBZ is in. They are in different series, but Earth is Earth (although, oddly enough, DBZ uses a different Earth; look, shut up, just go with it). It's stability is the standard by which we go- it is what we'd call "normal". Contrary to what you want to believe, the Makai is simply more stable. Which speaks even more to Raizen's ability to shake it with his stomach growls.

Also, if we're judging by appearances of power-ups, none of these DBZ motherfuckers can TOUCH Maito Gai.

ANB · 05-11-2008

They're having the exact same effects. I'm not saying that closes all discussion, it's significant if you want to compare feats. You guys are under-estimating the effects of the power-ups because no one prior to Sensui had done what he did at full-power (Not even the Toguro power-up scene).

COMPARE:

A-class Hiei

Full-power Sensui. Doesn't look horrendously different to me...!

It just goes to show that DBZ's world is more or less as stable as Makai. Look, Goku was doing that with a power-level of 8,000. Cell is...in the billions. He is billions of times stronger than Goku and the Earth trembles...yeah, pretty fecking stable if you compare the effects they have on the terrain. He's that much more powerfull and yet he should theoretically be crumbling the galaxy (thinking linearly).

But Sensui states he can't even use half of his full-power on Earth. When he goes to Makai, it has the same effects as Goku with 8,000. It just goes to show you Ningenkai is very, VERY weak compared to DBZ's world.

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I thought Makai was a far more stable realm then Ningenkai?

Uh, yeah...? That's my point.

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Ya... That's the shockwave of his punch destroying half a plateau :/

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I don't judge by size of explosions or how they power up, but intensity of the fights

1-I have seen MUCH worse. Freeza sliced up half of Namek with his Death Wave. Besides, the characters get slammed into mountains all the time and just get up dusting themself off. Roshi was so powerfull he destroyed Mt. Frying Pan by accident. Roshi. And...Goku waves his hand to destroy a cliff: Manga Fox: Dragon Ball Vol.19 Ch.012 Online Manga Scans

2-Lol, have you even watched Dragonball...? The "intesity of the fights"...? You mean like blowing up a tenth of the planet by accident with a casual chi-blast...? Or Goku and Vegeta getting tired after only a few punches wailing on each other?

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The effect of Sensui's power-up on the Human Realm at 0%:

What the hell do you mean "0%"?! If he was it means he wasn't using his chi at all. So, what was he doing prior to that scene??? Supresing it to -50%?

No, it isn't until Sensui begins using Golden Ki that it does that. And it was "less than 50"; I don't where you get the idea it was that low of a percentage. When someone scans another person's power-level, and they say "over X" than "X" (let's say 2,000) Wouldn't be 2,001...that's absurd. Sensui wouldn't use a bige figure like 50 for no reason. Clearly it's somewhere between 25-45%.

Anyway, just look at what he is doing:

-Crumbling the ceiling
-Causing boulders to rise
-Collapsing the cave

If we were to calculate his power-level based on that alone, he'd be as strong as Vegeta:

^Again, the exact same effects (Crumbling boulders). It's actually even more impressive if you ask me.

Vegeta: 18,000
Sensui (25-45%): 18,000
Full-power: 450,000-810,000

Cableguy15 · 05-11-2008

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It just goes to show that DBZ's world is more or less as stable as Makai. Look, Goku was doing that with a power-level of 8,000. Cell is...in the billions. He is billions of times stronger than Goku and the Earth trembles...yeah, pretty fecking stable if you compare the effects they have on the terrain. He's that much more powerfull and yet he should theoretically be crumbling the galaxy (thinking linearly).

I honestly hope you realize this was an attempt to keep the series going, because if they power up from billions of times stronger it would destroy the earth... Notice how SSJ Vegeta's Big Bang Attack is a joke compared to Frieza's Death Ball and was probably smaller than that blast we see from Zarbon (The one Vegeta deflected), or Nappa's first casual blast when he arrives on earth. It has nothing to do with Earth's durability so much as Toriyama wanting the series to continue. Vegeta even makes the claim that he can destroy the earth with a ki blast (Durring the fight with #18). So much for a higher durability.

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1-I have seen MUCH worse. Freeza sliced up half of Namek with his Death Wave. Besides, the characters get slammed into mountains all the time and just get up dusting themself off. Roshi was so powerfull he destroyed Mt. Frying Pan by accident. Roshi. And...Goku waves his hand to destroy a cliff:

Quote:

Manga Fox: Dragon Ball Vol.19 Ch.012 Online Manga Scans

I think I should have been more clear. I actually agree; Sensui's powerlevel would be in the thousands.

Roshi's Kamehameha EXPLODES. I don't know how many times I've had to point out how dumb it is to compare an explosion feat to a feat that doesn't include explosions. For example, would you consider Karasu's attack (That we see when he first goes blonde) to be more powerful than Yusuke's reigun that he used on 80% Toguro just because the reigun doesn't explode? No, that's just stupid.

Goku's feat isn't that impressive if we are comparing shockwave feats. I mean that's a tiny cliff (That he only destroyed a little bit of) compared to part of a plateau.

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2-Lol, have you even watched Dragonball...?

The question isn't "Have I watched Dragonball?".

It's "Why the hell did I just ask such a bad question that I know the answer to?"

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Anyway, just look at what he is doing:

-Crumbling the ceiling
-Causing boulders to rise
-Collapsing the cave

He did more than that.

Shook a mountain range: Yu Yu Hakusho 144 page 11 | One Manga

Of course, whether it's the mafuken or not is debatable. I would think it's Sensui's power though, seeing as the "Earthquake" was a sign of Koenma failing, not using the mafuken. And it's only when the earthquake starts that Genkai notes that it's Seikou-ki.

Caused "Little tremors" in the city for several minutes: Yu Yu Hakusho 144 page 15 | One Manga

**Majuub** · 05-11-2008

Not to sound like a jerk but, when Vegeto powered up, it was not more impressive than when Vegeta powered up in volume 19-20. That doesn't mean Vegeta is stronger than Vegeto =/

ANB · 05-11-2008

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I honestly hope you realize this was an attempt to keep the series going, because if they power up from billions of times stronger it would destroy the earth... Notice how SSJ Vegeta's Big Bang Attack is a joke compared to Frieza's Death Ball and was probably smaller than that blast we see from Zarbon (The one Vegeta deflected), or Nappa's first casual blast when he arrives on earth. It has nothing to do with Earth's durability so much as Toriyama wanting the series to continue. Vegeta even makes the claim that he can destroy the earth with a ki blast (Durring the fight with #18). So much for a higher durability.

I agree. In fact, this was my crux when debating with Lord_Sloth in the other thread:

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Originally Posted by Lord_Sloth

2 can play at this. The world in YYH is weaker you say? Maybe the writer just gives GODS more credit than the pushovers they are in DBZ? Enma wanted a barrier up so it's up and damn near impossible to breach in YYH

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

Lol, exactly. Toriyama is simply much more liberal in wanting to make the readers stare in awe at how powerful the characters are.

Realistically, it should not have taken until Perfect Cell, who's is well into the billions, to cause the entire Earth to shake. If we look at it from a plot perspective, there'd be no point in the heroes trying to save an Earth that doesn't exist anymore, no...?

And Kami-Sama IS the God of Earth. He created the dimension of time so you can't make that argument. We see that even gods can be surpassed in DBZ. The Kaioshin was in awe of the Super Saiyajins' power. And in DBZ, Enma is at best several times stronger than Radditz of all people. Again, Toriyama is much more liberal and his plot rather straightforward in comparison (simply "saving the world").

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I think I should have been more clear. I actually agree; Sensui's powerlevel would be in the thousands.

Roshi's Kamehameha EXPLODES. I don't know how many times I've had to point out how dumb it is to compare an explosion feat to a feat that doesn't include explosions. For example, would you consider Karasu's attack (That we see when he first goes blonde) to be more powerful than Yusuke's reigun that he used on 80% Toguro just because the reigun doesn't explode? No, that's just stupid.

Goku's feat isn't that impressive if we are comparing shockwave feats. I mean that's a tiny cliff (That he only destroyed a little bit of) compared to part of a plateau.

1-Glad you agree

2-Also agree. Just pointing out Roshi has the capacity to destroy mountains.

3-Yeah, it's a small cliff but that only goes to show it won't gurrantee Sensui being in the millions doing something slightly more spectacular than a guy who was in teh thousands.

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Not to sound like a jerk but, when Vegeto powered up, it was not more impressive than when Vegeta powered up in volume 19-20. That doesn't mean Vegeta is stronger than Vegeto =/

Toriyama is a bum :/

That power-up in particular was on of his first ever and he wanted the characters to be as cool as possible (Fighting on a whole nother level). Togashi was aiming for the same thing with S-class Yusuke and full-power Sensui. In fact, the name of the chapter is even "fighting on another level" and Yusuke fires his biggest rei-gun ever (Goku likewise used his best Kamehameha, even surpassing the Super Kamehameha in the 23rd Budokai). It shows even MORE similarities between the two and thus similarities in power.

**Nikushimi** · 05-11-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majuub

Not to sound like a jerk but, when Vegeto powered up, it was not more impressive than when Vegeta powered up in volume 19-20. That doesn't mean Vegeta is stronger than Vegeto =/

I think we should just stop paying attention to ANB and his topics from now on.

G-lord · 05-11-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

What the hell do you mean "0%"?! If he was it means he wasn't using his chi at all. So, what was he doing prior to that scene??? Supresing it to -50%?

No, it isn't until Sensui begins using Golden Ki that it does that. And it was "less than 50"; I don't where you get the idea it was that low of a percentage. When someone scans another person's power-level, and they say "over X" than "X" (let's say 2,000) Wouldn't be 2,001...that's absurd. Sensui wouldn't use a bige figure like 50 for no reason. Clearly it's somewhere between 25-45%.

Lol at myself. Sorry about not fully explaining the "0%" part. I have explained this in previous threads, so I honestly didn't think it was neccessary to re-explain it. I got the "0%" from the quotes from Kurama and Sensui that he was suppressing almost all of his power. It would be more correct using the term "almost 0%".

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I think 25% is a significant amount, and nowhere near to a full suppression. 0% was the most appropriate term to use. Also, it couldn't possibly be 25%, or else half of Ningenkai would be obliterated. "0%" or "just above 0%" would allow him to avoid falling into contradiction:

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I used the term 0% because the Manga seems to suggest that he was using so little of his power that it may have been so close to 0% to be synonomous with it (in comparison to his higher power levels).

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Originally Posted by ANB

Anyway, just look at what he is doing:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

-Crumbling the ceiling
-Causing boulders to rise
-Collapsing the cave

If we were to calculate his power-level based on that alone, he'd be as strong as Vegeta:

^Again, the exact same effects (Crumbling boulders). It's actually even more impressive if you ask me.

Vegeta: 18,000
Sensui (25-45%): 18,000
Full-power: 450,000-810,000

Cableguy15 already commented on this, but Sensui's ki was shown affecting the mountain ranges and forests and cities in Ningenkai. This was due to Sensui's power resisting and overcoming the Mafuukan.

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Even then, the power unleashed wasn't affecting the cave nearly as much as Sensui's earlier power-up. It could be argued that Sensui's shake-up before may have been more intense (by that, I mean wide-spread) on the surface than the shake-up during the Mafuukan.

In fact, in the raw I posted, there was one word circled: "Dai-chi".

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It translates to "vast land", and is commonly used by Mr. Togashi to refer to Ningenkai (the entire human plane of existence) itself. He uses "Dai-chi" as a catch-all to explain "Realms" in general. Sensui's power was supposedly affecting/shaking that during that entire scene. Kuwabara even commented he could feel Sensui's power affecting Ituski's Realm, which existed beyond Ningenkai...the human plane of existence...the physical universe.

As I said before, and as many people are saying now, we cannot calculate the true power-levels of characters based on power-ups. If we compared Sensui's Offence Armour power-up and Toguro's power-up the way you are, Toguro would own Sensui in his Offence Armour. Toguro was ripping chunks off the stadium that were two-three stories in size and made demons seem like little specks in comparison. The chunks Vegeta ripped up in his power-up against Goku were paltry in comparison. Toguro's ki was even ripping demons apart. It was making craters from the centre of the power-up.

It's more that just simple rock raising that Sensui's Offence Armour showed. On some levels, it was even more impressive that parts of Vegeta's power-up (but nowhere near as impressive overall: Toguro didn't make the Earth shake). If Sensui was "810,000", based on his power-up, Toguro would be well into the millions. This shows how pointless it is to calculate full power-levels on power-ups of this nature. It just doesn't work.

Old Rai · 05-11-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-lord

Exactamundo. Makai >>> Ningenkai. It's one of the reasons why Sensui moved the fight from Ningenkai to Makai. The physical universe couldn't even take 50%. Makai could take that level of power with minor damage.

The effect of Sensui's power-up on the Human Realm at ALMOST 0%:

The effect of Sensui's power-up at the exact same level on Makai:

Makai was infinitely less affected than Ningenkai by the same amount of power.

So, Makai is a lot more stable than Ningenkai. Wouldn't that make comparing Goku's spire busting shockwave to Sensui's plateau busting shockwave pointless? If Sensui's power-up was shattering rock in Ningenkai/Earth, but it wasn't even budging sub-atomic particles in Makai. This would mean that the shockwave Goku used to shatter the spire on Earth may not even dislodge a sub-atomic particle in Makai. That would make his feat (as far as the showings go) infinitesimally weaker than Sensui's plateau buster in Makai.

G-lord · 05-11-2008

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Originally Posted by Old Rai

So, Makai is a lot more stable than Ningenkai. Wouldn't that make comparing Goku's spire busting shockwave to Sensui's plateau busting shockwave pointless? If Sensui's power-up was shattering rock in Ningenkai/Earth, but it wasn't even budging sub-atomic particles in Makai. This would mean that the shockwave Goku used to shatter the spire on Earth may not even dislodge a sub-atomic particle in Makai. That would make his feat (as far as the showings go) infinitesimally weaker than Sensui's plateau buster in Makai.

One could argue that, yes. I should look into that one deeper myself. But it seems to be a good argument.

ANB · 05-11-2008

Absurd. If Sensui was 0% he'd be emitting no energy at all. Even in the translations you guys go by, it's <50. I don't get how you can interpret less than 50 to mean 0. Mathematical fallacy.

As for Toguro, you're forgetting the Dark Tournament was in Ningenkai. Sensui has the same effects as Vegeta with his power suppresed (even down to shaking the Earth). DBZ's Ningenkai>>>YYH's Ningenkai by a long shot.

05-10-2008	#16 (permalink)
Chibi Mystic Gohan (21) Majin Warrior Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Surrounded by dickgirls Posts: 1,631 Rep Power: 44	Re: Dude, Sensui is weak. That was some delicious anime filler. But speaking of huge rock structures, Dragon Ball characters get sent flying all the time and break them apart. __________________ "Words don't exist so that we can tell the truth; they exist so that we can conceal the truth" - ZOMBIEPOWDER.* Volume 02*

05-10-2008	#17 (permalink)
Lord_Sloth (28) Lord of Worlds Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Douglasville Georgia Posts: 7,360 Rep Power: 29	Re: Dude, Sensui is weak. Never read Dragonball or Z so the anime is all I have to go off of. __________________ Lord_Sloth's Theme Song Brawl Code=0645-5430-9597==Wii Code=7378-2898-7096-7882==PSN=Lord_Sloth "You can't help it. You can't fight it. You can't accept it. You just have to leave everything related to it because you couldn't get what you chose." ~Evil Dark Knight http://cristgaming.com/pirate.swf

05-10-2008	#18 (permalink)
Cableguy15 (16) Master of Kaio-ken Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 618 Rep Power: 2	Re: Dude, Sensui is weak. Toguro wasn't an idiot. The first crater he made was an attempt to punch Genkai in the head (She's below 4ft tall so it's no surprise with a guy who must have been atleast 8 ft tall.), and the other one was on purpose to see if Yusuke was worthy of his 100%. __________________ Dragonball Z Power levels: http://anime.myfavoritegames.com/ani...er-levels.html Dragonball Z Movie Power levels: http://anime.myfavoritegames.com/ani...er-levels.html

05-10-2008	#19 (permalink)
Island of 1,000 Condiments Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 6,932 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 37	Re: Dude, Sensui is weak. @ANB: I believe your first post compared the amount of destruction two characters could create via powering-up. There is one major flaw in that. Yu Yu Hakusho and Dragonball/Z are not done by the same author. Destructive power in one is different from destructive power in another. Also, release of power is different. Not everyone can just spew spiritual energy from their pores. Meaning, two characters could power-up. One creates a big, flashy explosion of energy. Another does less. Does that mean the former is stronger than the latter? No, it means that the energy in Z is less concentrated. Think of two currencies. Lets take the US dollar and the Euro. Essentially, they do the same thing. They allow the purchase of goods. However, are they worth the same? No, they're not. It takes more US dollars to do the same thing that a few Euros could do. Don't try to make things linear, it won't work. It just pisses me off whenever members try to give Yu Yu Hakusho characters a Power Level or give Dragonball/Z characters Databook Stats. It does not work. Two difference series. They are not linear.The energy types are not linear. They may do the same thing, but are they equal in terms of power? No. __________________ - Retired Super Moderator -

05-11-2008	#29 (permalink)
ANB (23) Final Warrior Join Date: May 2006 Location: The Natives are restless... Posts: 2,641 Rep Power: 14	Re: Dude, Sensui is weak. Absurd. If Sensui was 0% he'd be emitting no energy at all. Even in the translations you guys go by, it's <50. I don't get how you can interpret less than 50 to mean 0. Mathematical fallacy. As for Toguro, you're forgetting the Dark Tournament was in Ningenkai. Sensui has the same effects as Vegeta with his power suppresed (even down to shaking the Earth). DBZ's Ningenkai>>>YYH's Ningenkai by a long shot. __________________ Were they created by nothing? Or were they themselves the creators (of themselves)? Or did they create heaven and earth? Nay, but they are not sure. (52:35-36)