ANB

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Were they created by nothing? Or were they them­selves the creators (of themselves)? Or did they create heaven and earth? Nay, but they are not sure.

(52:35-36)

Kei

But Shikamaru had Kakashi's help.

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Island of 1,000 Condiments

@ANB:
And Kakuzu, considering it was his blood Kakashi gave to Shikamaru.

So don't play that card.

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SS2 Vegeto

There was like, a complicated trap set up beforehand, then they staged an ambush, then Kakashi got Kakuzu's blood, then while Kakuzu was kept occupied Shikamaru managed to make the Kagemane no Jutsu a success, dragged him off towards the trap that was set up ealier, managed to fake Hidan out by splashing Kakuzu's blood across his face and Hidan's blade, which he wouldn't have had if not for Kakashi, and thinking he had him, Hidan goes and takes out one of Kakuzu's hearts, has his neck near sliced halfway through in a surprise attack which he wouldn't have expected from a...dead opponent, is moved into position, has the the trap sprung, binding the explosive tags to him, and destroying the ground below him, Shikamaru sets off the blast, Hidan's body parts fall into the pit, and another explosion seals the pit. Hidan and Kakuzu were basically just looking for where they had to get to next, and walked into this. Shikamaru could beat Hidan with a little assistance and some extra preparation and planning, but even Kakashi found reason to note Hidan's strength.

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ANB

^But it was stratey.

Strategy. Not like Shikamaru couldn't take him in an improvisional situation. It would be tough, I admit, but according to the power-ladder Shikamaru should have no trouble (power-wise) with base Kurama:

So even if Hidan is the weakest, Shikamaru is </= to him and Base Kurama is waaay off (80x weaker than his fox form).

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Were they created by nothing? Or were they them­selves the creators (of themselves)? Or did they create heaven and earth? Nay, but they are not sure.

(52:35-36)

Kei

Shikamaru isn't stronger than Hidan. If he was, he wouldn't have needed Kakashi's help and Kakuzu's blood.

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SS2 Vegeto

If a person wasn't expecting me, but I was expecting them, and when they showed up I jumped them with the help of friends and sprung a whole bunch of traps on them that I took the time to set up carefully beforehand, would I be stronger than them? I don't think so. If they just fought under normal circumstances, Hidan would pretty much manhandle Shikamaru.

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ANB

That's how Shikamaru fights though. And in his excellent fight with tayuya it was purely improvising. Give him some credit.

And I said </= for the record.

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Were they created by nothing? Or were they them­selves the creators (of themselves)? Or did they create heaven and earth? Nay, but they are not sure.

(52:35-36)

Kurushimi

I would prefer <<. =/

And I'm a little confused about your 80x statistic. Either way, the from what I seen from Kurama I believe he is easily faster than Shikamaru's shadows. Though, Shikamaru has taken on people like this before he arguably would've lost against Hidan, who I place Kurama a fair bit ahead of, had it not been for the trap he set up earlier and Kakashi's help.

Island of 1,000 Condiments

So, whenever he fights someone in a Versus, he gets to bring Kakashi, Chouji, and Kakuzu?

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SS2 Vegeto

And has a hole dug for him and explosive tags everywhere beforehand? If Kakashi didn't get the blood for him and he didn't have those traps set up, all his tactical brilliance and planning wouldn't have been worth crap.

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