Orochimaru squad vs. Kisame

**Raven** · 01-27-2008

Kisame vs. Orochimaru, Sasuke (CSL2), and Kabuto, who wins this? Everything is post-time skip.

I'd go for the team but only by a margin.

**SS2 Vegeto** · 01-27-2008

If Orochimaru (or Sasuke, if possible back then) is allowed to summon Manda, they could probably win, but Kisame might still take them to the brink. Otherwise, Kisame wins.

**Zer0** · 01-27-2008

What happens if Sasuke defeats Itachi next week?

**SS2 Vegeto** · 01-27-2008

If Orochimaru is involved in this, it's not that Sasuke.

**Zer0** · 01-27-2008

Or that Orochimaru is one that fully took over Kabuto. :/

**Raven** · 01-27-2008

Lol, I'm talking about close to or after they fight yonbi. But not up to the most current events guys. I am talking about the Orochimaru with the weak host body.

AlienMunkie · 01-27-2008

I DOUBT THAT KISAME COULD KILL OROCHIMARU. HONESTLY, OROCHIMARU CAN GET CUT IN HALF AND PUT HIMSELF BACK TOGETHER. KISAME'S SPEED AND TAIJUTSU HIGHLY SURPASSES OROCHIMARU'S BUT HE LACKS THE INSAINE ABILITIES. FOR EXAMPLE, SARUTOBI FELT THAT HE HAD TO USE THE JUTSU THAT TOOK OUT THE KYUUBI ON OROCHIMARU, AND HE STILL DIDNT DIE. ON THE OTHER HAND IF OROCHIMARU COULDNT RECONECT HIS BODY PARTS AND MAKE HIMSELF AS GOOD AS KNEW THEN HE WOULD BE PATHETIC COMPAIRED TO KISAME. OROCHIMARU'S SKILL ARENT IMPRESSIVE AT ALL TO TELL THE TRUTH, KISAME'S IF A FAR BETTER NINJA IN MY OPINION. ITS JUST THAT OROCHIMARU CHEATS DEATH. ONLY A MONSTER CAN KILL A MONSTER.

**SS2 Vegeto** · 01-27-2008

It won't really matter if his head is shaved off. And, he couldn't reconnect his arm when Itachi cut it off, so apparantly he has to anticipate it. And, he can suffer from fatigue, become exhausted. Something that won't be happening to Kisame, who has more stamina than anyone we know of. Orochimaru was losing to Yonbi Naruto. Kisame beat the full Yonbi without a visible scratch. And if you want the full break down...

AlienMunkie · 01-27-2008

WELL THE YONBI NARUTO THAT KISAME BEAT WAS BARELY ABLE TO FEND OFF NEJI. SO YOU CANT COMPAIR IT TO WHAT HE DID TO OROCHIMARU. AND RECONNECTING HIS ARM IS NOTHING TOO HIM. HE DIDNT ANTICIPATE NARUTO TAKING HIS ARM OFF WHEN HE FOUGHT HIM AND HE STILL GOT ANOTHER ONE. PLUS, IF HE SEES THE GIGANTIC LAWN MOWER ON KISAME'S BACK I WOULD ASSUME HE WOULD ANTICIPATE GETTING SHAVED UP A BIT. ITACHI PROBABLY HAD HIM IN A GENJUTSU. ALSO FATIGUE WOULD HAPPEN ONLY IF HE NEEDS A NEW HOST BODY. AFTER DRIVING NARUTO INTO THE WALL WITH HIS SWORD, HE DIDNT HAVE A SCRATCH ON HIM AND WAS ABLE TO WALK AWAY UNTIL HIS BODY GAVE OUT. HE DIDNT EVEN FEAR DYING UNTIL HE SAW THE CHAKRA BLAST. PLUS OROCHIMARU HAS A GREAT KNOWLEDGE OF JUTSU AND CAN SUMMON HOKAGE.

PLEASE DONT TELL ME YOU HAVE NIKIMUSHI'S WALL, CAUSE IF YOU DO THEN I GIVE UP ALREADY. IM NOT DONE WITH MY BACKUP FOR IT YET

**SS2 Vegeto** · 01-27-2008

Ironically, it was my wall, originally - he added a handful of scans/edits of his own, after he makes note of such in his post, when he made his point with that, last. I've been considering making a revised version, myself. I have something totally different for this.

Kisame never fought Yonbi Naruto. Yonbi means "four tails". He beat the full Yonbi. He can't regenerate his head, because he'd be dead. Weak host body or not, Kisame outlasts him in the area of stamina easily. And, if we want an idea of how large the gap between Kisame and Orochimaru is -

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS2 Vegeto

Kisame is atleast as strong as Tsunade, with ninjutsu beyond Sannin level, more than three times as much chakra as Semi-Kyuubi Naruto, greater speed than Gai, at less than a third of his power, and the ability to absorb massive quantities of chakra. I should probably elaborate, so I'll just quote some other post I've made...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS2 Vegeto

It took six gates to beat a 30% Kisame clone. If that is the case, an eight gates Gai would likely be less than half his full power. Anyone who opens all eight gates will temporarily gain speed and strength surpassing the level of Hokage, what about when someone like Gai opens them? What does that say about Kisame's full strength? His physical power is monstrous enough at less than a third of it's full capacity to slap around Maito Gai like an infant, he's clearly got Tsunade level strength atleast at max. His ninjutsu is powerful enough to create an almost small lake-sized amount of water in the middle of a desert, once again, at thirty percent, and is more than adequete in handling multiple people of jounin level ability. His speed surpasses Gai. At thirty percent. If Naruto has 100 times as much chakra as Kakashi drawing on the Kyuubi's power, and a thirty percent chakra clone has as much as SBM Naruto, then Kisame could have anywhere from around 33 (assuming those calculations included tailed forms) to 330 (excluding tailed forms as a factor) times as much chakra...chakra affects stamina for jutsu creation, meaning there's almost no limit to the amount of stuff Kisame can continue blasting at you, in addition to already being ludicrously powerful. To top it off, he can absorb your chakra, and he apparantly never used any of his stronger techniques in the fights we saw him in. So, yeah, physical power as great or greater than Tsunade's, ninjutsu at or above the Sannin level (at the very least), speed far greater than Gai's, tens to hundreds of times more chakra than an elite jounin, and the ability to drain your chakra pretty well does translate over to "probably a lot stronger than Orochimaru".

Pre-timeskip Semi-Kyuubi Naruto wasn't actually all that much greater than Semi-Shukaku Gaara himself, if at all, since Gaara both admitted to underestimating him, and Naruto used up all his chakra still...and even Gamabunta couldn't handle Shukaku, both of whom could obviously crush Naruto like an ant, especially based on Naruto's...general interactions with Gamabunta. Even if he got stronger three or four fold over the timeskip, it's still doubtful that he could take out Shukaku in his semi-kyuubi form. Itachi even states that Naruto "isn't that strong" after having already sensed the kyuubi chakra. So, moving up one form (Ichibi, first tailed form) isn't going to suddenly make Naruto go from, like, worthless, to utter, uncontrolable ownage. He'd get a lot stronger, yeah, but it's limits should be...clear to you. If he is far weaker than the Ichibi in Ichibi form, then he's clearly going to remain weaker than biju four or lower in his corresponding (pre-training) tailed forms, at least to some degree. The Nibi Jinchuriki was Kage level too (unlike a few of the others with stronger biju, who's jinchuriki were apparantly weaklings), so there's probably not that much less difference between her and Gaara (who had gotten way stronger over the timeskip, meaning the full shukaku would make it's previous self pale in comparison, as a biju and it's jinchuriki grow and thrive off eachothers power) than there is between his bijuu and hers, and the Yonbi was clearly far, far stronger than either of them. Therefore, Kisame>>>Yonbi>>>Yonbi Naruto>/=Orochimaru.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS2 Vegeto

Yeah. It was stated that reaching the eighth gate, would effectively give you speed and power "greater than hokage". This, would, probably not be referencing the decrepit, aged Sandaime, who has less speed and power than some jounin (albeit, much, much greater technical ability [ninjutsu, taijutsu, genjutsu, hand seals]), and it didn't point anyone out, specifically. It's more like, saying "anyone who reaches eighth gate will have speed and power greater than hokage"...so, what of Gai? He has tier five power already. If anyone, he's surely stronger than any kage (albeit, not Tsunade, and physically, not overall), at sixth gate. It only takes a 30% Kisame clone to instantly outspeed and outpower Gai, and force him to sixth gate. Sixth. If he might've beaten him at a lower one, he certainly wasn't sure that he could end it, in that short window of time. It takes but less than a third of Kisame's actually strength to do that? He'd already displayed suiton ninjutsu a level of which they couldn't believe, in that same watered down fight, so the rape-fest (to put it bluntly) certainly isn't exclusive to close combat. It's bad enough, without Sameheda being able to devour massive quantities of chakra. The fact that he beat the Yonbi jinchuriki, which should've been stronger than Yonbi Naruto, without a visible scratch, delivers a last kick.

Hoshigaki Kisame>>>Deidara>>>Uchiha Sasuke (+Orochimaru, CSL2, w/th Manda)>>>Orochimaru (w/th Manda)>>>Uchiha Sasuke (+Orochimaru, CS, w/th Manda)>/=/<Uchiha Sasuke (+Orochimaru, CSL2)>/=/<Yonbi Naruto (Pre Training)>>>Uchiha Sasuke (+Orochimaru, w/th Manda)>/=Kakuzu (Five Heats)>/=Orochimaru (Healthy)>/=Uchiha Sasuke (CSL2)>>>Orochimaru (True Form)

Kisame wins, easily.

For further elaboration upon the comparison between Naruto's tailed forms and their corresponding biju;

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS2 Vegeto

Orochimaru fought Yonbi Naruto, and dispite briefly holding his own, was unable to injure him, and faced the threat of being killed, clearly on the losing end of the fight. We can see from Naruto's..general interactions with him, that if he so chose, Gamabunta could probably sit on him, and whatever jutsu he was using, and crush them both to dust, and Semi-Kyuubi state only boosts him up to around Semi-Shukaku Gaara's level, whereas Gamabunta can handle the same kind of..form, only basically like, fifty times larger, before Shukaku awakens. The statistical difference between base Naruto and Semi-Kyuubi Naruto can also be measured by comparing him to Neji, who managed to fight Naruto quite evenly in this form. If the Semi-Kyuubi to Ichibi transition yields an increase anything like the base - Semi-Kyuubi transition, Gamanunta, let alone Shukaku could still...sit on him. Naruto went from barely being able to see Haku's attacks at all, to keeping up with him at Semi-Kyuubi level, so I'd think it'd have to be at least a three or four times difference for that to happen. Curse Seal Level 2 is a 10x difference from base, stated in at least two different instances that I recall. Naruto went from slightly weaker than Sasuke (Three Tomoe Sharingan, Curse Seal Level One), to even with Sasuke (Curse Seal Level Two), with the Semi-Kyuubi to Ichibi transition. So Ichibi Naruto is probably a few times stronger than Semi-Kyuubi Naruto. Similar to the base - Semi Kyuubi difference. Still, I have my severe doubts that it is akin to the difference between a Semi-Shukaku Gaara, that is still within..the general size range of a human being, to the full manifestation of Shukaku. Even if Naruto got more than three or four times stronger over the timeskip (base - semi-kyuubi difference, which would be quite significant), it's still kind of...pushing it. So, that's a good tailed form - biju comparison right? Keeping in mind Orochimaru's fight with Yonbi Naruto, Kisame beat the Yonbi Jinchuriki without visible injury. Gaara could fully manifest his bijuu pre-timeskip, and called out appendages of Shukaku to control against Deidara when they fought. Ni Yugita could fully manifest her bijuu. Yet the Yonbi Jinchuriki was still considered exceptionally powerful.

I see no reason, that with that difference in ability that Kisame wouldn't just be on him like an animal, and inflict a fatal amount of damage without leaving the chance for recovery.

AlienMunkie · 01-27-2008

ok, for the six gates thing, im not too sure. it is clearly weird. if rocklee were to use all eight gates, i doubt he would be able to beat an hokage, so assuming that guy can reach hokage level is shaky. plus, the anime said that the eighth gate might be able to reach the strength of hokage. the fact of the matter is, saying that kisame can own orochimaru is like saying he can own sarutobi. which is impossible to me. 30 percent of his chakra was compared to naruto's chakra when he was 12. so at age 12, naruto had just as much chakra as the 30% shouten. i doubt that kisame's strenght is even in the same boat as tsunade's. honestly, she picked up gababunta's blade, and twirled it like a baton. also kisame didnt beat the actual yonbi. he beat the host. thats like saying he could beat the nine tailed fox. if naruto were to create all nine tails, i doubt he would be able to take on the acual kyuubi. we dont know how much of his bijuu the yonbi could control. kisame is powerful i have to admit, but he isnt better than orochimaru. not only did he admit to being weaker than jiraiya, but he said that itachi could have done something. not including himself in the phrase helps my theory. kisame' couldnt cut through a small toad that jiraiya summoned. although he obviously cutting with much force, the toad wasnt high leveled. although, when i think about what you say, i begin to think that kisame can own orochimaru. but orochimaru can summon minato. orochimaru and minato vs kisame is just overkill.

**Raven** · 01-27-2008

No, Orochimaru isn't on Kisame's level. Kisame's natural power, speed, stamina, and chakra are much higher than that of Orochimaru's. Not to mention Kisame can kill you by zapping out all of the chakra from your body. Plus he has tremendous taijutsu, only to be backed up by even better ninjutsu, complimented by his excessive amount of chakra. I'm not sure whether he can use genjutsu or not but in most cases he won't even need it. He basically overwhelms everyone he fights and with only a fraction of his power. Let's not forget that he enjoys toying with his opponents, now imagine if he was cut throat like Itachi.

AlienMunkie · 01-27-2008

this topic is hard for me. i dont know if kisame is better or if orochimaru is better. kisame's skill in taijutsu are far superior to orochimaru's, but orochimaru has inhuman jutsu. on the other hand, kisame could have owned yonbi naruto alot more easily than orochimaru. his sword would cut through the chakra. but without i doubt he would win. i dunno.

JAIF · 01-27-2008

I may be going on a limb here, but assuming Kisame uses Suiton: Bakusui Shouha, Sasuke could possibly fry him with Chidori Nagashi - the water can be used as a conduct for an electrical current.

In terms of ability, we have Kisame, a rather straightforward shinobi who excels in ninjutsu, taijutsu, stamina and chakra, Sasuke, a skilled genjutsu user with quite an affinity for ninjutsu and taijutsu as well, and Orochimaru, a user of unique techniques of various forms and purposes. Kabuto doesn't even count - he'd be tossed aside like nothing, just like it happened in the fight against the Yonbi.

There is no way Sasuke would just... capture Kisame in a genjutsu, not after spending so long with Itachi, so Sasuke would have to rely on his Kusanagi no Tsurugi to fight from a distance because closing in would be suicide. Kisame would probably deflect the Kusanagi blades like nothing with Samehada, then unleash a virtual maelstrom of water-based ninjutsu that offer him an extreme advantage against any Katon techniques Sasuke would pull off, essentially pinning him and Orochimaru down to a spot, and then he could close in with his monstrous speed and start beating them down - CS2 Sasuke could probably take a lot of punishment, and Orochimaru isn't just the type of shinobi you could simply beat to death, and there will be danger for Kisame, mostly with multiple snake summonings etc, but then again, after seeing his performance against the Yonbi, Kisame wouldn't have trouble with those - more ninjutsu. And with Samehada's ability to shed the chakra off the opponents, even if it doesn't directly strike them, I can say that Sasuke and Orochimaru will be pretty much screwed up after a while, while Kisame's beastly stamina will allow him to keep going on, eventually killing them.

If you want to go on a limb, a hypothetical scenario where the pair would stand a good chance of victory would be:

Post-Orochimaru absorption CS2 Sasuke and healthy Orochimaru with Edo Tensei (Shodai, Nidai Hokage) and Manda. Of course, this is impossible, so it's just on a hypothetical level. Under these circumstances, Kisame would be in trouble, considering it'd be a water-style contest against Nidaime that normally Kisame would win easily, but he'd also have to contend with Shodai's Mokuton ninjutsu, all the stuff I mentioned above, and Manda to boot...

Mystic_Gohan · 01-28-2008

To be honest, I really think people overrate Kisame. Orochimaru with Sasuke should be enough to beat him and Kabuto is no pushover himself.

Sasuke could be a bad matchup for Kisame, since he utilizes Chidori in many of his attacks. If Kisame uses his Suiton: Bakusui Shoha, CS2 Sasuke with his wings, could just fly up, charge his Kusanagi with Chidori and plunge it down into the water, and fry him.

01-27-2008	#1 (permalink)
Raven Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 4,066 Rep Power: 11	Orochimaru squad vs. Kisame Kisame vs. Orochimaru, Sasuke (CSL2), and Kabuto, who wins this? Everything is post-time skip. I'd go for the team but only by a margin. __________________ Official Anime Collection: Cowboy Bebop The Movie + DVD's 1 - 5 (Remix), Fullmetal Alchemist Season 1 Part 1, Patlabor, Samurai X, Wolf's Rain complete collection, Azumanga Daioh, Serial Experiments Lain, Howl's Moving Castle, Kurau, Weiss Kreuz Gluhen, Kino's Journey, Magical Shopping Arcade: Abenobashi, Gundam Wing complete collection + Endless Waltz, Wolf Brigade, Appleseed, Akira, Ghost in the Shell, and Tokyo Godfathers.

01-27-2008	#2 (permalink)
SS2 Vegeto Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In God's Hands Posts: 9,092 Rep Power: 20	Re: Orochimaru squad vs. Kisame If Orochimaru (or Sasuke, if possible back then) is allowed to summon Manda, they could probably win, but Kisame might still take them to the brink. Otherwise, Kisame wins. __________________

01-27-2008	#3 (permalink)
Zer0 Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hn, None of your business Posts: 8,611 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 37	Re: Orochimaru squad vs. Kisame What happens if Sasuke defeats Itachi next week? __________________ \|Work in Progress Signature\| \|Bleach Power Levels\| \|Movie Power Levels\| \|Databook Statistics\|

01-27-2008	#4 (permalink)
SS2 Vegeto Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In God's Hands Posts: 9,092 Rep Power: 20	Re: Orochimaru squad vs. Kisame If Orochimaru is involved in this, it's not that Sasuke. __________________

01-27-2008	#5 (permalink)
Zer0 Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hn, None of your business Posts: 8,611 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 37	Re: Orochimaru squad vs. Kisame Or that Orochimaru is one that fully took over Kabuto. :/ __________________ \|Work in Progress Signature\| \|Bleach Power Levels\| \|Movie Power Levels\| \|Databook Statistics\|

01-27-2008	#6 (permalink)
Raven Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 4,066 Rep Power: 11	Re: Orochimaru squad vs. Kisame Lol, I'm talking about close to or after they fight yonbi. But not up to the most current events guys. I am talking about the Orochimaru with the weak host body. __________________ Official Anime Collection: Cowboy Bebop The Movie + DVD's 1 - 5 (Remix), Fullmetal Alchemist Season 1 Part 1, Patlabor, Samurai X, Wolf's Rain complete collection, Azumanga Daioh, Serial Experiments Lain, Howl's Moving Castle, Kurau, Weiss Kreuz Gluhen, Kino's Journey, Magical Shopping Arcade: Abenobashi, Gundam Wing complete collection + Endless Waltz, Wolf Brigade, Appleseed, Akira, Ghost in the Shell, and Tokyo Godfathers.

01-27-2008	#7 (permalink)
AlienMunkie Naruto Ranked (13) Konoha Military Police Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: On mars staring at the stones. Posts: 317 Rep Power: 2	Re: Orochimaru squad vs. Kisame I DOUBT THAT KISAME COULD KILL OROCHIMARU. HONESTLY, OROCHIMARU CAN GET CUT IN HALF AND PUT HIMSELF BACK TOGETHER. KISAME'S SPEED AND TAIJUTSU HIGHLY SURPASSES OROCHIMARU'S BUT HE LACKS THE INSAINE ABILITIES. FOR EXAMPLE, SARUTOBI FELT THAT HE HAD TO USE THE JUTSU THAT TOOK OUT THE KYUUBI ON OROCHIMARU, AND HE STILL DIDNT DIE. ON THE OTHER HAND IF OROCHIMARU COULDNT RECONECT HIS BODY PARTS AND MAKE HIMSELF AS GOOD AS KNEW THEN HE WOULD BE PATHETIC COMPAIRED TO KISAME. OROCHIMARU'S SKILL ARENT IMPRESSIVE AT ALL TO TELL THE TRUTH, KISAME'S IF A FAR BETTER NINJA IN MY OPINION. ITS JUST THAT OROCHIMARU CHEATS DEATH. ONLY A MONSTER CAN KILL A MONSTER.

01-27-2008	#8 (permalink)
SS2 Vegeto Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In God's Hands Posts: 9,092 Rep Power: 20	Re: Orochimaru squad vs. Kisame It won't really matter if his head is shaved off. And, he couldn't reconnect his arm when Itachi cut it off, so apparantly he has to anticipate it. And, he can suffer from fatigue, become exhausted. Something that won't be happening to Kisame, who has more stamina than anyone we know of. Orochimaru was losing to Yonbi Naruto. Kisame beat the full Yonbi without a visible scratch. And if you want the full break down... __________________

01-27-2008	#9 (permalink)
AlienMunkie Naruto Ranked (13) Konoha Military Police Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: On mars staring at the stones. Posts: 317 Rep Power: 2	Re: Orochimaru squad vs. Kisame WELL THE YONBI NARUTO THAT KISAME BEAT WAS BARELY ABLE TO FEND OFF NEJI. SO YOU CANT COMPAIR IT TO WHAT HE DID TO OROCHIMARU. AND RECONNECTING HIS ARM IS NOTHING TOO HIM. HE DIDNT ANTICIPATE NARUTO TAKING HIS ARM OFF WHEN HE FOUGHT HIM AND HE STILL GOT ANOTHER ONE. PLUS, IF HE SEES THE GIGANTIC LAWN MOWER ON KISAME'S BACK I WOULD ASSUME HE WOULD ANTICIPATE GETTING SHAVED UP A BIT. ITACHI PROBABLY HAD HIM IN A GENJUTSU. ALSO FATIGUE WOULD HAPPEN ONLY IF HE NEEDS A NEW HOST BODY. AFTER DRIVING NARUTO INTO THE WALL WITH HIS SWORD, HE DIDNT HAVE A SCRATCH ON HIM AND WAS ABLE TO WALK AWAY UNTIL HIS BODY GAVE OUT. HE DIDNT EVEN FEAR DYING UNTIL HE SAW THE CHAKRA BLAST. PLUS OROCHIMARU HAS A GREAT KNOWLEDGE OF JUTSU AND CAN SUMMON HOKAGE. PLEASE DONT TELL ME YOU HAVE NIKIMUSHI'S WALL, CAUSE IF YOU DO THEN I GIVE UP ALREADY. IM NOT DONE WITH MY BACKUP FOR IT YET

01-27-2008	#11 (permalink)
AlienMunkie Naruto Ranked (13) Konoha Military Police Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: On mars staring at the stones. Posts: 317 Rep Power: 2	Re: Orochimaru squad vs. Kisame ok, for the six gates thing, im not too sure. it is clearly weird. if rocklee were to use all eight gates, i doubt he would be able to beat an hokage, so assuming that guy can reach hokage level is shaky. plus, the anime said that the eighth gate might be able to reach the strength of hokage. the fact of the matter is, saying that kisame can own orochimaru is like saying he can own sarutobi. which is impossible to me. 30 percent of his chakra was compared to naruto's chakra when he was 12. so at age 12, naruto had just as much chakra as the 30% shouten. i doubt that kisame's strenght is even in the same boat as tsunade's. honestly, she picked up gababunta's blade, and twirled it like a baton. also kisame didnt beat the actual yonbi. he beat the host. thats like saying he could beat the nine tailed fox. if naruto were to create all nine tails, i doubt he would be able to take on the acual kyuubi. we dont know how much of his bijuu the yonbi could control. kisame is powerful i have to admit, but he isnt better than orochimaru. not only did he admit to being weaker than jiraiya, but he said that itachi could have done something. not including himself in the phrase helps my theory. kisame' couldnt cut through a small toad that jiraiya summoned. although he obviously cutting with much force, the toad wasnt high leveled. although, when i think about what you say, i begin to think that kisame can own orochimaru. but orochimaru can summon minato. orochimaru and minato vs kisame is just overkill.

01-27-2008	#12 (permalink)
Raven Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 4,066 Rep Power: 11	Re: Orochimaru squad vs. Kisame No, Orochimaru isn't on Kisame's level. Kisame's natural power, speed, stamina, and chakra are much higher than that of Orochimaru's. Not to mention Kisame can kill you by zapping out all of the chakra from your body. Plus he has tremendous taijutsu, only to be backed up by even better ninjutsu, complimented by his excessive amount of chakra. I'm not sure whether he can use genjutsu or not but in most cases he won't even need it. He basically overwhelms everyone he fights and with only a fraction of his power. Let's not forget that he enjoys toying with his opponents, now imagine if he was cut throat like Itachi. __________________ Official Anime Collection: Cowboy Bebop The Movie + DVD's 1 - 5 (Remix), Fullmetal Alchemist Season 1 Part 1, Patlabor, Samurai X, Wolf's Rain complete collection, Azumanga Daioh, Serial Experiments Lain, Howl's Moving Castle, Kurau, Weiss Kreuz Gluhen, Kino's Journey, Magical Shopping Arcade: Abenobashi, Gundam Wing complete collection + Endless Waltz, Wolf Brigade, Appleseed, Akira, Ghost in the Shell, and Tokyo Godfathers.

01-27-2008	#13 (permalink)
AlienMunkie Naruto Ranked (13) Konoha Military Police Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: On mars staring at the stones. Posts: 317 Rep Power: 2	Re: Orochimaru squad vs. Kisame this topic is hard for me. i dont know if kisame is better or if orochimaru is better. kisame's skill in taijutsu are far superior to orochimaru's, but orochimaru has inhuman jutsu. on the other hand, kisame could have owned yonbi naruto alot more easily than orochimaru. his sword would cut through the chakra. but without i doubt he would win. i dunno.

01-27-2008	#14 (permalink)
JAIF (26) Great Elder of Namek Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: The Black Tower. Posts: 5,452 Rep Power: 26	Re: Orochimaru squad vs. Kisame I may be going on a limb here, but assuming Kisame uses Suiton: Bakusui Shouha, Sasuke could possibly fry him with Chidori Nagashi - the water can be used as a conduct for an electrical current. In terms of ability, we have Kisame, a rather straightforward shinobi who excels in ninjutsu, taijutsu, stamina and chakra, Sasuke, a skilled genjutsu user with quite an affinity for ninjutsu and taijutsu as well, and Orochimaru, a user of unique techniques of various forms and purposes. Kabuto doesn't even count - he'd be tossed aside like nothing, just like it happened in the fight against the Yonbi. There is no way Sasuke would just... capture Kisame in a genjutsu, not after spending so long with Itachi, so Sasuke would have to rely on his Kusanagi no Tsurugi to fight from a distance because closing in would be suicide. Kisame would probably deflect the Kusanagi blades like nothing with Samehada, then unleash a virtual maelstrom of water-based ninjutsu that offer him an extreme advantage against any Katon techniques Sasuke would pull off, essentially pinning him and Orochimaru down to a spot, and then he could close in with his monstrous speed and start beating them down - CS2 Sasuke could probably take a lot of punishment, and Orochimaru isn't just the type of shinobi you could simply beat to death, and there will be danger for Kisame, mostly with multiple snake summonings etc, but then again, after seeing his performance against the Yonbi, Kisame wouldn't have trouble with those - more ninjutsu. And with Samehada's ability to shed the chakra off the opponents, even if it doesn't directly strike them, I can say that Sasuke and Orochimaru will be pretty much screwed up after a while, while Kisame's beastly stamina will allow him to keep going on, eventually killing them. If you want to go on a limb, a hypothetical scenario where the pair would stand a good chance of victory would be: Post-Orochimaru absorption CS2 Sasuke and healthy Orochimaru with Edo Tensei (Shodai, Nidai Hokage) and Manda. Of course, this is impossible, so it's just on a hypothetical level. Under these circumstances, Kisame would be in trouble, considering it'd be a water-style contest against Nidaime that normally Kisame would win easily, but he'd also have to contend with Shodai's Mokuton ninjutsu, all the stuff I mentioned above, and Manda to boot...

01-28-2008	#15 (permalink)
Mystic_Gohan (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,480 Rep Power: 3	Re: Orochimaru squad vs. Kisame To be honest, I really think people overrate Kisame. Orochimaru with Sasuke should be enough to beat him and Kabuto is no pushover himself. Sasuke could be a bad matchup for Kisame, since he utilizes Chidori in many of his attacks. If Kisame uses his Suiton: Bakusui Shoha, CS2 Sasuke with his wings, could just fly up, charge his Kusanagi with Chidori and plunge it down into the water, and fry him.