SS2 Vegeto

So, after a little time away from the forums, I mostly focussed my attention on Astner's topic, so even though this has gone a month without posts (sorry about that), I guess I'll pick up with where I left things hanging.

That only insinuates that Sasuke was stronger than him, not that he wasn't quite close in power (which his later statement would suggest).

Even if that were true, calling it impossible for Orochimaru if it wasn't totally impossible would still be pointless lying without indication. Yet, it's nonsensical in the first place. First off, you're trying to cast doubt on a clear statement where no contradiction is necessary in favour of personal theories surrounding his motives. So, let's say Sasuke was trying to hide the fact that he was stronger than Orochimaru. It can still be impossible for him to kill Itachi? Is there a contradiction? No there is not. It is impossible for Orochimaru to kill Itachi. Sasuke is stronger than Orochimaru. It is impossible for Sasuke to kill Itachi. It is impossible for Sasuke or Orochimaru to kill Itachi. Itachi>Sasuke>Orochimaru. Claiming the statement is false because of this is quite literally, an assumption with no backing. In addition, there's no proof either that Sasuke considered Hebi as anything more than a "what-if" kind of option. All we know is that he knew of each of their locations and existences, and chose to form a team. Whether he decided right then because he felt his power was now sufficient, or had planned on this and decided beforehand is not known, however it is known that there was a time that Sasuke would have given Orochimaru his body, as he expresses that he no longer has the need. However regardless, no challenge is made to the truth of the statement, for nothing in either case suggests it's falsehood. The truth of the statement is self-evident in the first place, as Sasuke is implied to be close in power to Orochimaru for whom killing Itachi is impossible, and Sasuke fights rather evenly with a weakened Itachi (before Susano'o is pulled out) with Orochimaru's power.

If their ignorance is not implied, that assumption is baseless. In Itachi and Kisame's case, we have Kisame, who just finished warning Itachi over his use of the mangekyo sharingan a second time, reasoning that Itachi's power should've been sufficient in handling the situation, questioning why their retreat was even necessary, followed by an answer that didn't include Jiraiya at all, but rather made clear that the problem was in the near future as opposed to the present (needed a place to rest), followed by Jiraiya admitting that just distancing them took a huge effort on his part. What implies ignorance in these other situations? If it's just a guess because it doesn't seem right or something for some reason, that's really not worth anything in the long run. Those statements weren't thrown in for no purpose. If you ignore statements that stand unchallenged based on things that the author never chose to express, you can basically ignore anything in favour of your own ideas.

To my knowledge, it wasn't stated so clearly (about Sandaime's power) in the official translations. In addition, the Official Fanbook only states him to have surpassed his predecessors. Kakashi also seems to imply the Yondaime as the strongest, in his belief that Naruto is the "only one" who can surpass him, as if it is something unheard of. However, this is besides the point. "Greatest" or "Strongest", the point is simply that Orochimaru doesn't even outmatch Itachi in his own strong points. He hasn't shown to be capable of producing anything near to the level of the Mangekyo jutsu for combative purposes.

However, very little of the fight was on solid ground. Sasuke could perhaps have killed Deidara in a couple of instances. Deidara could've killed him a couple of times too (at the least), if not for Sasuke coming out on top in elemental rock-paper-scissors, or the summoning scrolls. In addition, the advantage of being airborne is an advantage Deidara will have against virtually anyone who can't also fly, which Sasuke could, but had one of his wings blown off to disable this.

He was only riding the wave at the start. The water calmed after it filled in the desert basin, after which point they were just running around on it's surface. He was able to protect himself while being attacked by multiple opponents, managed to block Gai's kick with Samehada's handle (not the blade), and instantly took the offensive once his fight with Gai became one on one. The first thing he comments on once Gai opens the sixth gate is his speed (which apparently wasn't worth noting beforehand), and afterwards, Kisame basically treats it like it was no big deal since those clones only had a small portion of the original's powers. In one instance, Karin also makes note of Kisame's speed: Naruto Manga Returns
"Oh my God, there's an incredible chakra...it's coming our way, and fast!"
He could dodge Asuma's attacks casually back in volume 16 too (though he didn't see the extending chakra blade), who is tier 4.5 in speed. Kisame having top tier speed is nothing new, though it was largely brought to readers attentions over time-skip events that would suggest just how high in the fifth tier he probably is.

As for chidori, you can still maneuver, but not as well - however, your vision doesn't allow you to properly perceive your opponent's movements while moving at that unnatural speed. It's not normal for your body, it's unwieldy. If someone like Gai can avoid those problems, I think my point is evident. Here's another one, though. Look over Sasuke's exchange with Lee. He needed the sharingan to properly perceive his movements. All he could tell beforehand was that attacks were passing through his guard and hitting him, and asked himself whether they were ninjutsu or genjutsu.

He could've left it to Orochimaru. However, even if that was the case, he was pretty calm around Ichibi Naruto. However, Kabuto doesn't look frightened, so it seems more like your assuming his motive was fear out of only convenience for your point. Kabuto already saw what Ichibi Naruto could do, too.

The only thing that blowing crap up and creating shock waves proves is that his power is sufficient to blow crap up and create shock waves. "He looks strong" doesn't prove anything. I could tell you a lot of characters in Naruto "look stronger" than characters they are weaker than. Also, it's expected that waving around an intense, unstable mass of ludicrous chakra and blowing things up is going to cause more of a disturbance than normal. To be honest, no one else has really done the things you've listed, have they? Are you going to insinuate Yonbi Naruto is the strongest character in the series because of this?

We haven't even seen Kisame fight full out. But, considering Shukaku's power could probably be compared to someone like Orochimaru (2nd host), the Yonbi is notably more powerful than that, and Kisame came out of a fight with the Yonbi feeling "a little tired", let alone three tails difference between it and the Ichibi, I rest my case.

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