Astner

To my notice the battle wasn't really explained in detail. So I thought that I'd make a thread where we could discuss the process as well as the outcome of this battle.

People have been claiming that Hashirama won because of his ability to seal Kyūbi no Yōkō. Seeing how Yamato simply enhanced the seal, that has readily been put on Naruto I don't see how Hashirama could seal him away.

We also see that far into the battle, both are wounded. Hashirama is using his Mokuton to hold back Kyūbi, as he fights Madara. No sealing cheap-shots or anything like that.



In the end we see Madara with a sword droven through his torso. So it wasn't Kyūbi that defeated him, but Hashirama.



Hashirama fought both Madara and Kyūbi, and prevailed. I wouldn't be surpized if he was second only to Rokudou Sennin. Thoughts?

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Stupidity at its finest (or is it worst?)

Kurushimi

Why do you place Rokudou Sennin so high?

I'm also confused at how a ninja could possibly hope to hold his own against the Kyuubi. And why he didn't fight like that against Sandaime. It's like "Kendo" all over again.

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~ Credit to Ultimate_Gohan for the signature.

Nikushimi

Sasori also ended up dying from a sword through the chest. Does that mean it would've been enough to take him down at full health? Of course not. Obviously, this battle dragged on for a long time, both combatants were severely beaten, and a sword through the chest is how it ended. Kyuubi may not have been the instrument with which Madara was ultimately felled (lol, ironic, considering Shodai's tree-based abilities), but nothing says it wasn't used against him at all.

Personally, I'm starting to think Madara's been overrated. I'm thinking he was more comparable to the likes of current Kakashi back then, but stronger due to EMS. After all, this was without any sophisticated training, that he just became uber-powerful in comparison to other ninja. Itachi, on the other hand, went through many trainings and missions and was even taught by Madara himself, probably getting an edge in his progression. I wouldn't be surprised if young Madara wasn't actually that strong at all, but was simply hot shit because of EMS. Which poses the question, "How strong is Madara now?".

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Punxx

It would stand to reason Nikushimi. Not to mention the fact that the newer generations are consistently surpassing the older generations would have to also be considered.

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Island of 1,000 Condiments

Sandaime vs. Shodai & Nidaime: I’ve already expressed my opinion that Undead Shodai couldn’t compare to the actual Shodai. In fact, if it wasn’t for Enma, Sandaime would’ve lost the battle a few times. However, I’ll get to that in a bit. The first point I have to present is that Shodai was virtually immortal. When the explosive tags destroyed his legs, he regenerated. Therefore, he didn’t even need to dodge. He didn’t have to make a conscious effort to do so because it wasn’t necessary. Also, Undead Shodai lacked a mind and heart. I suppose he was still as intelligent as the old Shodai, but he lacked the compassion and spirit that has been expressed throughout Naruto. Many battles have been decided because of a Shinobi’s will. It allows them to surpass their 100%. It allows them to defeat opponents they otherwise wouldn’t be able to defeat. Sandaime defeated Orochimaru because he had the will to. It gave him the power to fight. Shodai just stood there and took everything that was thrown at him. He rolled over and was sealed. The actual Shodai wouldn’t be anything like that. Now, Enma. Enma is easily low-Bijuu. He wasn’t even scratched by Orochimaru’s Grass Cutter. He wasn’t even scratched by Shodai’s Wood [No sick pun, ass.] Sandaime would’ve been killed by Shodai if not for Enma. If it weren’t for the sealing technique, he would’ve died. I also want to mention that I don’t think Orochimaru wanted Sandaime to just roll over and die. He wanted to watch him suffer which is why he had Sarutobi fight the two Hokage. Orochimaru just watched and laughed sadistically. He made virtually no effort to help until Sandaime sealed the two.

[Personally, I think Orochimaru w/o Shodai / Nidaime < Sandaime.]

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Zer0

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Island of 1,000 Condiments

I don't remember that.


He said he'd need to be cautious, but not weaker.

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Jonny America

My question is this; couldn't Madara simply use Mangekyo to make it look like Hashirama killed him? It's fairly obvious that he could. My theory is that he faked his own death in order to persue his hidden goal.

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Island of 1,000 Condiments

When Madara came to the conclusion that he was going to lose, I doubt he would've had enough chakra to cast Mangekyou.

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Tyro

Sandaime: "Besides, none of the shinobi in Konoha right now......are any threat to him. I suspect that not even I could face him."

Island of 1,000 Condiments

Oh?

But does that include Enma?

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Punxx

I'm sure he would have said that knowing his own full power. Enma is simply a tool that Sandaime can use so I'm sure he would have taken that into account. But was that line not only from the anime or is there a scan to support it as well? Because I do remember that from the anime, it's when Sandaime is looking at the pictures of past Hokage and Anko walks in.

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Zer0

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Jonny America

Who's to say the entire fight wasn't an illusion? In my opinion, we dont' know enough about this to make a decisive conclusion.

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Island of 1,000 Condiments

I doubt it would be.

Besides, if Madara in wounded, wouldn't the illusion fade. For example, Kadabra casts an illusion that it battles in. However, Kadabra is wounded. Wouldn't that therefore break the illusion since Kadabra can no longer concentrate on holding it up. I same should apply to Madara. If he's stabbed, his illusion would break. This, of course, is understanding that the Madara in the illusion is the real one. Madara stated he wanted revenge. You can't just kill somebody with an illusion of yourself. Therefore, Madara would've cast an illusion and fought within it. When he was wounded, the illusion would fade.

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