Raven

But the question is, is he anywhere near Yonbi's power (the one kisame beat)? I mean if Sasuke is weaker than Yonbi Naruto, he's certainly weaker than the full Yonbi bijuu, which means to me that Kisame could beat him with not too much trouble. Going off the logic that Kisame beat Yonbi with little effort.

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SS2 Vegeto

First of all, it was stated that they'd have speed and power greater than Hokage, not overall ability, and it was stated generally, which makes it pretty much fact that eighth gate, no matter who you are, gives you that kind of speed and power. Gai is tier five power already, so no, my calculations are most certainly not off there. At sixth gate, he evaporated a large water basin in moments, and the air literally burst into flames with his attacks. That was sixth gate, and eighth gate is still going to be maybe half a match for a full power Kisame. I'm not being unreasonable about this at all, I'm taking the stated facts, and demonstrated feats and putting two and two together. Second, chakra does not equal strength. Chakra affects stamina for jutsu creation. The only reason that a 30% chakra clone was actually 30% of Kisame's maximum strength was that the clone was actually physically created from that chakra - and it was stated that the strength of the body was proportionate to the chakra that was donated. Naruto contains and produces chakra within his body, but he is not materialized from it. It only affects his stamina, unless it is actually being manifested to have a physical affect, and even then, it's still not the same as being made of it. So, no, nothing about Kisame having chakra at Naruto's level implies that he was the same strength. Kakashi had half the chakra of base Naruto, before he trained for wind manipulation, and at that time he was stronger than him. And, base Gai was far, far stronger than the Naruto that fought Neji, and it takes six gates to beat a 30% chakra clone. Having the same level of chakra doesn't make you the same strength. The chakra that Kisame donated was just used to create an actual physical body, so it was a special case, where his strength and abilities were proportionate to that. Next, Kisame stated that he fought "the Yonbi". Not the "Yonbi Jinchuriki", or even just "this guy". He said "the Yonbi". Additionally, Gaara could fully manifest his bijuu pre-timeskip, and called out appendages of Shukaku to control against Deidara when they fought. Ni Yugita could fully manifest her bijuu. Yet the Yonbi Jinchuriki was still considered exceptionally powerful. It's pretty clear that he fought the full Yonbi, and thus, my comparison still stands - and that devastates the idea that Orochimaru could be any match for him. Further, the third coffin only had the fourth's title on it's cover in the anime - it didn't in the manga. It's anyone's guess what it actually contained. And, it's not that hard to stop at least one from opening. Sandaime does this. Last, Kisame had said before meeting Jiraiya, that he "wasn't sure" that he could beat him, or "didn't know about" him being able to handle it, and that's if they were talking about Jiraiya and not the Kyuubi Jinchuriki whom they had never met before. And, even when they are both clearly talking about Jiraiya they use wording such as "may be/might be" and "possibly". After they meet him, Jiraiya himself mentions that they don't know him very well, and it's self evident in the fact that..he thought there was no way either of them could escape, that Jiraiya didn't know his opponents either. Further, Kisame only fled on Itachi's command, and hardly showed any worry when confronting Jiraiya himself. I don't see anything contradictory in claiming that Kisame is stronger than Jiraiya. In fact, if we can logically determine that he is stronger than Orochimaru, we pretty much know that he is stronger than Jiraiya.

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Mystic_Gohan

Did Itachi not state that if Kisame fought Kakashi in Part I, that he would have a hard time... I really think you rank them too highly.

Eliwood21

He had stated that he would be injured if he fought Kakashi at that time. Not exactly a "hard time" I suppose.

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Mystic_Gohan

But still, people are glorifying the fact that he came out of his battle against the Jinchuruki "scratchless". When Itachi himself says that he'd get injured fighting Kakashi in Part I, so what, does that mean Pre-timeskip Kakashi is stronger than the four-tailed beast?

JAIF

Itachi never said that, Itachi said that Kisame might get injured if he fought Kakashi, Asuma and Kurenai at the same time, and we all know that with Kakashi's Sharingan and Kurenai's genjutsu that might well be the case, plus right now, I'm getting the feel that Itachi wanted to 'experiment' with his Mangekyou Sharingan against other Sharingan users.

SS2 Vegeto

He also said he'd take to much time, and others would arrive. Kisame plays around.

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Mystic_Gohan

We're both kinda wrong. I might've mixed up the anime and manga but he did NOT say they "might" get injured, against that many skilled ninja, it's not too hard to believe they'd actually get hurt...

Naruto Manga Returns

He already knew that Mangekyou would effect anyone other than someone with Uchiha blood. He just used it to get Kakashi out of the picture fast, before other ninjas could arrive.

Crazy Canuck

Well after seeing Sasuke handle Itachi thus far, I'd say him and Oro are more than enough to handle Kisame.

Not much of a basis but I'm sticking to it... plus as mentioned, Sasuke's eltrical/lightening attacks can be conducted with Kisame's water techniques.

Gaara x

Orochimaru, Kabuto and Sasuke SURELY have this. Even only Orochimaru and Kabuto can beat Kisame for sure. For example, I have a plan in mind:
Orochimaru paralyzes Kisame until he sticks out his tongue and traps him. Then Kabuto finds the chance to make Kisame fall asleep. Finally one of them hits him at vital point and kills him.






Yes, that's a good question, but don't wait for an answer from me. I'm wondering too WTF will Sasuke do after he beats his brother!!!

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Dark Skywalker

Return to Konoha?

Gaara x

What's the reason? He has said that he doesn't care a bit about Naruto or the others anymore and would probably have killed him that time, if Orochimaru hadn't interfered.

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Mystic_Gohan

He's going to go after Madara. Stated.

Gaara x

I have a feeling that Madara will go there instead. Well, that could save Itachi for a while if it happened.

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ANB

"We didn't come here for you to get injured".

"It would take too long"

Kurenai was already down pretty much. We already saw him dominating Asuma. So even if all three attacked Kisame you have to factor it all together...

Eh...

1-When was it stated that the clone was created from 30%? What I mean is, they used a live host to implant 30% of Kisame's chakra. So does that just mean the body could only handle 30%...? And I is confrused since you keep saying chakra=/=strength (even in your own paragraph there ). Sum it up in like...2-3 sentences plz. Abruptly. And was does it say (scans plz) that the abilities are proprtional to the chakra donated (for clones)...?

2-How do you get that the Yonbi=Four tail Kyuubi...? This seems like a whole lot of speculation. How do you get just because it was "the bijuu with four tails" that makes it as strong as Naruto, a jinchuuriki, "with four tails out of nine". By this logic, One-tail Naruto should be able to WTFpwn Kazekage Gaara without much effort.

And isn't there a power-ladder for the more tails a beast has...? It doesn't seem like it. We just know Kyuubi is the most powerfull. If there is a ladder it doesn't look right with Shukakku<<<Two tails (which wasn't impressive).

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