Final Ultima

And? The weapons are "EQUIPED" To Susano'o. If it gets absorbed so does the weapons.
Susano'o still gets absorbed and the weapons are useless..

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Voice_of_Reason

I never said Shikamaru was "hit", I stated he would "take damage". I used it to exemplify the difference between that which is physical and spiritual, yet you still seem to be missing the point, and that is, things which are incorporeal, cannot be hindered by physical matter.

Trying to find trivial detail inaccuracies in my responses will not change anything. The Sword of Totsuka is a legendary ethereal weapon, and comparing its capabilities to Tayuya's Doki Ghost is just like comparing Madara to Konohamaru...

Of course, it won't just steal physical energy, it'll cut right through you and send you to an endless genjutsu. The sword and shield cannot be absorbed and honestly, you've shown nothing to prove otherwise, nothing.

As I said the first time, in order to get to Susanoo he'd have to get past the sword and shield...

Which is almost an impossibility with Itachi in control.

Jehuty

And you missed it. Orochimaru was actually hit, unlike the ghosts. Physical touch.

Oh, it's not trivial at all. You'll see why in a second.

It tries to cut, it gets hit by Hungry Ghost Realm's jutsu.

The sword and shield will be absorbed. They're a kind of chakra manipulation. There's no reason it wouldn't. All we know is that Hungry Ghost Realm absorbs ninjutsu.

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Voice_of_Reason

They were stated to have no real physical form, it is fact, it is objective, it cannot be argued...

According to the manga and the Databooks, the two sources of canon, that is what it is said to be. Fat Pein can absorb Susanoo as it is a ninjutsu, but not the sword and shield... as they are "spiritual equipments" and are extensions added to the technique, Orochimaru was stated by Zetsu to have searched for the sword all his life. Just like Kusanagi, the Sword of Totsuka is a weapon, but it is imbued with the power of the Gods, giving it supernatural qualities.

Unless Kishi thows a curve ball, we must accept the facts as they are. If you're implying that your opinion > Kishimoto, and that's very much what it looks like right now, then there's no point arguing with you on this matter any longer.

Jehuty

The facts as they are? Susano'o is a ninjutsu. The sword and shield are parts of the ninjutsu, otherwise the ninjutsu would be worthless (Giant tengu does nothing, apparently, other than wield sword and shield). Ninjutsu is absorbed by Hungry Ghost Realm. Susano'o and all its parts are absorbed.

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Final Ultima

No, no, he doesn't Susano'o is gonna get absorbed the weapons are obselete.

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Voice_of_Reason

Correct, Susanoo is a ninjutsu. However, the Sword of Totsuka and Yata no Kagami are not a part of it, Susanoo is wielding them...

It was because of Susanoo and just Susanoo, that Itachi survived Sasuke's Kirin. It didn't have the sword or the shield equipped at the time. So it is evident that just with its chakra it'll be a threat, adding the other two items just makes it more deadly than it already is.

Zetsu had no idea what Susanoo was until seeing it before his own eyes, yet he had knowledge of the sword and the shield, that itself is an indicator that these weapons were not bound to the technique. He even goes to say that Orochimaru had searched for this sword all his life, it being the counter to his sword of Kusanagi (another legendary sword, which Oro acquired). How could Orochimaru search for this sword, or even know about it, if it was part of Itachi's technique? The fact is, Itachi found these things and equipped them to Susanoo making him essentially invincible.

If Kishi wanted Susanoo and its weapons to be unified, he wouldn't have given them their own names or reputations, known outside of the technique. It would just be "Susanoo", its not like the readers would actually start asking him what the names of its weapons were, we would just accept it as part of Itachi's godly Mangekyou jutsu. But he deliberately chose to label them separately, so that's just the way it is, you can't argue it.

Now the databooks go on to state:

"Amateratsu symbolizes the ''Light of the Material World'' while Tsukiyomi symbolizes ''the Darkness of the Spiritual World''. Those who master both can call upon the power of the raging god of battle (aragami) which is Susanoo. It's materialized chakra, taking the form of the great fighting god and it will destroy all the enemies in front of its eyes."

It says nothing of it wielding a special sword or shield. Just that it is "materialized chakra, taking the form of the great fighting god and it will destroy all the enemies in front of its eyes." That just furthermore strengthens the point, it does not need the sword to attack. On the next page it very specifically states that the sword and shield were "spiritual equipments". It appears even the Databooks are trying to directly distinguish them as separate.

The sword and shield acts like a guard. To say something could just easily slip through it, would just contradict the whole point of having them. What happened when Orochimaru's hydras tried to attack all at once: they were reflected by the shield, and got their heads cut off in an instant.

Just to let you know, I'm not going to respond to these factless arguments any longer, unless you show me some canon evidence that supports it, than it all means nothing. It's pretty apparent by now that you guys have a bias against Itachi, but there's no reason to try and mix your opinion with fact, just to prolong an argument... anyone who views the manga threw an objective view, would've accepted it by now.

I hold no bias towards either of the characters, I'm just stating what the canon has given us.

Final Ultima

You think you use and know canon but you don't.
Fat Pein ABSORBS ALL NINJUTSU and Susano'o is NINJUTSU. It's not a direct attack like Orochimaru used, it is a freaking "SEALING" technique and Susano'o will get sealed. The weapons are useless once the character using them is no more.
Thats all canon fact.

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Oldboy

Fatty needs to make contact with the technique to absorb it, If he were to get near Susano'o and absorb it before he gets knocked back or slashed with 300km/h, then yeah you are probably right.

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SS2 Vegeto

First off, Totsuka no Tsurugi and Yata no Kagami should be composed of chakra. With Totsuka no Tsurugi, both fuuinjutsu and genjutsu are used. The Yata no Kagami shifts it's chakra element to nullify ninjutsu. Both are considered extensions of the Susano'o technique, and are referred to as "Susano'o techniques".


Combust

Verb
- To burn; to catch fire.

The flames appeared on him, and this doesn't count as combustion? Of course it's combustion. He ignited. That's exactly what combustion is. The point is, fire isn't projected upon the target, the user looks at them, and they light on fire. Then, if it misses the intended target, the flames can still be controlled.

He wouldn't be standing still. Who said it'd be a walk in the park? I just wouldn't put it past Itachi, between all his skills and abilities. That's not even the point in the first place. I doubt he'd even use Amaterasu against Fat Pain, he'd kill him without ninjutsu. Someone asserted that Fat Pain could absorb Amaterasu, and I simply pointed out that it wouldn't work if it were a direct hit.

Clearly, if the flames form already on you, you are igniting. If Fat Pain took a direct hit, he'd be on fire immediately. Furthermore, Amaterasu burned away those gigantic tentacles momentarily. A normal sized body would be incinerated very quickly. If he were hit, I doubt Pain could get away without severe injury.

It's not exactly the body's owner that's conscious in the first place. All six of them are "Pain".

Naruto Manga Returns

"But make no mistake, Yahiko is dead. The man standing here is Pain and no one else".

Naruto Manga Returns

"Are you Nagato...or Yahiko? Who are you? Tell me!"

"We are Pain..."

Pain clearly refers to himself separate from the bodies he inhabits as well.

Naruto Manga Returns

"I hold no more love for him...and I took out this body to kill an intruder".

They're all controlled by one guy's chakra, through those receptors. The mind is that of the real Pain, which is what matters in genjutsu, and their vision is connected. Ocular genjutsu is the single worst thing Pain could be faced with, because he'll be treated the same as if he had one body.

It might have been. Or it might have been something else. It doesn't really matter. In some way or another, it put enough strain on his body for his disease to finish him off.

It's stated that Sasuke was out of chakra, after Zetsu suggested that he should be, confirmed with Sharingan, and then confirmed by Sasuke himself. It doesn't really matter to me what anyone might want to say about it - this is a matter of canon fact.

The fact that we know he was out of chakra tells me that somehow or another, Sasuke got past the exhausting effects of the Sharingan, since you can't drain what you don't have. And he had nothing. This happened twice too.

Suppressing Orochimaru wasn't really an issue until Sasuke basically pushed him to the surface by trying to force out power he didn't have. Sasuke was wasted, and there was pretty much nothing he could do about it, then. Normally, he can access Orochimaru's powers easily, seeing as they're part of his own now.

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Jehuty

Well, there y'go.




The flames didn't appear on the Eight Tails' skin, they appeared in the air around him. His skin didn't ignite. Either way, as soon as the flames appeared, they'd be absorbed.


That's pretty much speculation. Why would it feed back through the chakra receptors?



Alright.



Itachi was mostly blind, even with the Sharingan. The "out of chakra" was hyperbole, he was just low. If he were out, he would have died.

Clearly it took something for him to keep Orochimaru under. That's canon.

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Final Ultima

There you go. SS2 Vegeto got it.

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Voice_of_Reason

You're possibly correct.

However, that last sentence is flawed. Nowhere have they been stated as "Susanoo techniques". They are presumed to be extensions added to the technique, and not an extension of the technique itself.

Fat Pein's absorption technique must be initiated, it's not like a protective barrier that shields him at all times.

Amaterasu was able to break through the stomach of Mountain Toad, which is able to breath fire. If Fat Pein is caught by a direct hit by Amaterasu, especially if he does not expect it, he will be reduced to cinders.

This is a very confusing predicament right now, considering the lack of info we have on Pein, in general. Although it's not canonically confirmed, we can assume that from all the evidence given, he is controlled by one person.

However, the way genjutsu works is by extending your chakra flow through the cerebral nervous system of their opponent to control their mind's chakra, thereby affecting their five senses. If the real one is in fact not with them, then how would it effect the person controlling them from a distance? You could assume, that those "chakra receivers" could revert an opponent's chakra back to the source, but that's merely speculation for the time being.

The bodies are not connected by all 5 senses of course, only by one (maybe two). They all have their own individual brains though, so if a genjutsu did effect one of the bodies, it may just effect that one body. Jiraiya's genjutsu was a sound type which attacks whomever hears it through their sense of hearing, all 3 of the bodies could've heard it, so thus, they were all effected by it. But even while those 3 bodies were effected, Pein was still able to control his other 3 bodies, and right after Jiraiya killed the ones effected by the genjutsu, one of his other bodies ambushed him.

It's very vague right now, I don't believe there are any definite answers just yet. Best to leave it, till the manga gives us more information.

The Databooks do suggest Susanoo drains the life of the user, but of course, we can't rule that out as the primary cause of his death.

At the time Itachi states he is out of chakra, Sasuke is still able to use Sharingan, so that itself contradicts his statement. No matter how miniscule the drain Sharingan is on an Uchiha body, it still drains chakra.

It is only after he uses Kirin and expels Orochimaru from his body, could he truly be considered to be "out of chakra".

Jehuty