Nikushimi

The Kyuubi never said that Sasuke had the same QUANTITY as Madara, nor was there ever a mention of "quality". The Kyuubi just said "that cursed clan...with a chakra more sinister than my own". I tend to think that the Kyuubi is talking about the Sharingan. After all, to attain the Sharingan's highest point, its pinnacle of power, you have to commit horrible acts and kill those closest to you, severing all emotional bonds and making you inhuman. Of course, I tend to think that the Kyuubi was specifically talking about the Mangekyou Sharingan. After all, Itachi and Sasuke's dad, Fugaku, said that only a few people can attain Mangekyou and that it is extremely rare. So it's possibly some sort of recessive trait that only shows up rarely, and few who possess the trait actually activate Mangekyou Sharingan. Afterall, the two Uchiha we've seen so far who DO have the potential or have already activated it, Sasuke and Itachi, are freaking psychopaths. Sasuke severed all bonds and became obsessed with obtaining more power for the sake of killing his own brother, and Itachi massacred his entire family and tortured Sasuke with the images of how it all happened. If you ask me, that's some pretty effing "sinister" chakra right there. Also, the Mangekyou seems to change an individuals behavior. After attaining Mangekyou, Itachi became more aggressive, even in his base-Sharingan form. When he attacked those Uchiha police and thrashed them, Sasuke cried out to him and he seemed to snap out of a sort of trance. After the murder of his entire clan, Itachi became totally emotionless and merciless. That's why I think that the "sinister chakra" is the latent or active Mangekyou ability.
I really don't think the Kyuubi was talking about the Cursed Seal, since I doubt Madara had one. Also, I REALLY doubt that something as weak and basic compared to the Kyuubi would be considered "sinister" at all by the Kyuubi itself. ALSO, the Kyuubi referred to the Uchiha as "that cursed clan", so that further supports the likelihood that the Kyuubi was talking about the Mangekyou ability.
Remember, it wasn't "cursed chakra", it was "cursed clan". The Kyuubi referred to the chakra as "sinister".

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Bow to the King.

JAIF

So, all you say just points to the fact that Itachi also has that type of cursed chakra. Which is what I said in the beginning.

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Nikushimi

[quote user="JAIF"]So, all you say just points to the fact that Itachi also has that type of cursed chakra. Which is what I said in the beginning.[/quote]
Exactly. I also think Itachi has the "sinister" (not "cursed") chakra. The Kyuubi called the Uchiha clan "cursed", so I doubt that the "sinister chakra" means anything other than Mangekyou Sharingan. In fact, I'm pretty much certain of it.

__________________

Bow to the King.

JAIF

How can that be though, since Sasuke doesn't have the Mangekyou? It must be the Sharingan by itself, the Mangekyou is just the peak of its 'evilness'. Sort of.
Well actually, from what I recall, the Kyuubi called the Sharingan 'that accursed bloodline', and he talked about 'Sasuke's power and chakra, even more sinister than my (Kyuubi's) own'. So I think it refers to both the sinister chakra that is supposedly associated to the Uchihas and their Sharingan and the amount of Sasuke's chakra and power.
I'm dying to find out what that big connection between the Kyuubi and the Sharingan is. It's probably the connectinve joint between the two major sub-plots.

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DBAF Killer

The Kyuubi stating that the Uchiha clan is cursed.


The Kyuubi stating that Sasuke's Sharingan & his chakra is even more sinister than its own just like Uchiha Madara. Both of Itachi's Sharingan & chakra isn't similar to that of Sasuke's who similar to Madara.
So yes, both Sasuke & Itachi's Sharingan are cursed. But, it isn't this "curse" that cause the Kyuubi's chakra to be suppress. It's the uniqueness of Sasuke's Sharingan & chakra that cause the Kyuubi's chakra to be suppress. This "curse" of Uchiha is what makes it possible for an Uchiha to see the Kyuubi inside an container/Jinchuriki.

Nikushimi

Sasuke may not have activated Mangekyou, but he has the latent power to do so. After all, like Fugaku stated, the Mangekyou is a rare trait that only a few Uchiha actually inherit, and even fewer seem to ever achieve it. I think the Kyuubi was talking about the fact that Sasuke possessed the "sinister chakra" that was a result of possessing a dormant Mangekyou form. After all, if it's a special thing that some Uchiha have and others don't, there's bound to be some fundamental differences in chakra between the two (non-Mangekyou and Mangekyou).
Basically, it's like...if you have the "sinister chakra", it means you are or have the potential to be a Mangekyou user.

EDIT:
[quote user="DBAF Killer"]The Kyuubi stating that Sasuke's Sharingan & his chakra is even
more sinister than its own just like Uchiha Madara. Both of Itachi's
Sharingan & chakra isn't similar to that of Sasuke's who similar to
Madara.
So yes, both Sasuke & Itachi's Sharingan are cursed.
But, it isn't this "curse" that cause the Kyuubi's chakra to be
suppress. It's the uniqueness of Sasuke's Sharingan & chakra
that cause the Kyuubi's chakra to be suppress. This "curse" of Uchiha
is what makes it possible for an Uchiha to see the Kyuubi inside an
container/Jinchuriki.[/quote]
1. It was never stated that Sasuke and Madara have different chakra than Itachi. Like I said, the "sinister chakra" is almost certainly the latent or active Mangekyou ability, since few Uchiha ahve ever possessed the ability to activate it at all.
2. Sasuke suppressing the Kyuubi's chakra could've been because of his latent Mangekyou abilities having some relation to the Kyuubi.
3. It wasn't at all stated that the "curse" was the reason Sasuke could see the Kyuubi. Sasuke could see the Kyuubi because...he was inside Naruto's mind. If you actually went into that world, much like the way Sasuke went into Oro's body-transfer world, the Kyuubi wouldn't be invisible or anything. I think the Kyuubi was just surprised that Sasuke could enter that realm and see him at all.
4. I stand by my theory that the "sinister chakra" is the latent or active Mangekyou ability of the individual. Everything points to and supports it. Itachi has Mangekyou. Itachi said Sasuke, like him, has the potential for Mangekyou. Not every Uchiha has the potential for Mangekyou; only a few. If Madara was really so special that the Kyuubi faced him and remembered him with a "sinister chakra", he probably had Mangekyou. Since the Kyuubi called the bloodline "cursed", it probably knew about Mangekyou. Everything holds up a big flashing neon sign that says "MANGEKYOU".

__________________

Bow to the King.

DBAF Killer

[quote user="Nikushimi"] Sasuke may not have activated Mangekyou, but he has the latent power to do so. After all, like Fugaku stated, the Mangekyou is a rare trait that only a few Uchiha actually inherit, and even fewer seem to ever achieve it. I think the Kyuubi was talking about the fact that Sasuke possessed the "sinister chakra" that was a result of possessing a dormant Mangekyou form. After all, if it's a special thing that some Uchiha have and others don't, there's bound to be some fundamental differences in chakra between the two (non-Mangekyou and Mangekyou).
Basically, it's like...if you have the "sinister chakra", it means you are or have the potential to be a Mangekyou user.

EDIT:
[quote user="DBAF Killer"]The Kyuubi stating that Sasuke's Sharingan & his chakra is even more sinister than its own just like Uchiha Madara. Both of Itachi's Sharingan & chakra isn't similar to that of Sasuke's who similar to Madara.
So yes, both Sasuke & Itachi's Sharingan are cursed. But, it isn't this "curse" that cause the Kyuubi's chakra to be suppress. It's the uniqueness of Sasuke's Sharingan & chakra that cause the Kyuubi's chakra to be suppress. This "curse" of Uchiha is what makes it possible for an Uchiha to see the Kyuubi inside an container/Jinchuriki.[/quote]
1. It was never stated that Sasuke and Madara have different chakra than Itachi. Like I said, the "sinister chakra" is almost certainly the latent or active Mangekyou ability, since few Uchiha ahve ever possessed the ability to activate it at all.
2. Sasuke suppressing the Kyuubi's chakra could've been because of his latent Mangekyou abilities having some relation to the Kyuubi.
3. It wasn't at all stated that the "curse" was the reason Sasuke could see the Kyuubi. Sasuke could see the Kyuubi because...he was inside Naruto's mind. If you actually went into that world, much like the way Sasuke went into Oro's body-transfer world, the Kyuubi wouldn't be invisible or anything. I think the Kyuubi was just surprised that Sasuke could enter that realm and see him at all.
4. I stand by my theory that the "sinister chakra" is the latent or active Mangekyou ability of the individual. Everything points to and supports it. Itachi has Mangekyou. Itachi said Sasuke, like him, has the potential for Mangekyou. Not every Uchiha has the potential for Mangekyou; only a few. If Madara was really so special that the Kyuubi faced him and remembered him with a "sinister chakra", he probably had Mangekyou. Since the Kyuubi called the bloodline "cursed", it probably knew about Mangekyou. Everything holds up a big flashing neon sign that says "MANGEKYOU".
[/quote]
Well, I'm standing by my theory that Sasuke is actually the reincarnation of Uchiha Madara. It makes more sense than your theory about the "sinister chakra" being the latent or active Mangekyou Sharingan (MS) of an individual. If the "sinister chakra" equal that of latent or active of the MS, then the Kyuubi would of mention other MS users in the past to Sasuke.

Baylavim

Oh, haha. I guess I haven't read up on the manga in a while, and got things mixed up. It would appear that the Kyuubi is talking about the sharingan, and consequently the Uchiha clan, and not just Sasuke. Woops.

I still say that the Mangekyou and Sasuke's sinister chakra are two different things, though.

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Nikushimi

[quote user="DBAF Killer"][quote user="Nikushimi"] Sasuke may not have activated Mangekyou, but he has the latent power to do so. After all, like Fugaku stated, the Mangekyou is a rare trait that only a few Uchiha actually inherit, and even fewer seem to ever achieve it. I think the Kyuubi was talking about the fact that Sasuke possessed the "sinister chakra" that was a result of possessing a dormant Mangekyou form. After all, if it's a special thing that some Uchiha have and others don't, there's bound to be some fundamental differences in chakra between the two (non-Mangekyou and Mangekyou).
Basically, it's like...if you have the "sinister chakra", it means you are or have the potential to be a Mangekyou user.

EDIT:
[quote user="DBAF Killer"]The Kyuubi stating that Sasuke's Sharingan & his chakra is even more sinister than its own just like Uchiha Madara. Both of Itachi's Sharingan & chakra isn't similar to that of Sasuke's who similar to Madara.
So yes, both Sasuke & Itachi's Sharingan are cursed. But, it isn't this "curse" that cause the Kyuubi's chakra to be suppress. It's the uniqueness of Sasuke's Sharingan & chakra that cause the Kyuubi's chakra to be suppress. This "curse" of Uchiha is what makes it possible for an Uchiha to see the Kyuubi inside an container/Jinchuriki.[/quote]
1. It was never stated that Sasuke and Madara have different chakra than Itachi. Like I said, the "sinister chakra" is almost certainly the latent or active Mangekyou ability, since few Uchiha ahve ever possessed the ability to activate it at all.
2. Sasuke suppressing the Kyuubi's chakra could've been because of his latent Mangekyou abilities having some relation to the Kyuubi.
3. It wasn't at all stated that the "curse" was the reason Sasuke could see the Kyuubi. Sasuke could see the Kyuubi because...he was inside Naruto's mind. If you actually went into that world, much like the way Sasuke went into Oro's body-transfer world, the Kyuubi wouldn't be invisible or anything. I think the Kyuubi was just surprised that Sasuke could enter that realm and see him at all.
4. I stand by my theory that the "sinister chakra" is the latent or active Mangekyou ability of the individual. Everything points to and supports it. Itachi has Mangekyou. Itachi said Sasuke, like him, has the potential for Mangekyou. Not every Uchiha has the potential for Mangekyou; only a few. If Madara was really so special that the Kyuubi faced him and remembered him with a "sinister chakra", he probably had Mangekyou. Since the Kyuubi called the bloodline "cursed", it probably knew about Mangekyou. Everything holds up a big flashing neon sign that says "MANGEKYOU".
[/quote]
Well, I'm standing by my theory that Sasuke is actually the reincarnation of Uchiha Madara. It makes more sense than your theory about the "sinister chakra" being the latent or active Mangekyou Sharingan (MS) of an individual. If the "sinister chakra" equal that of latent or active of the MS, then the Kyuubi would of mention other MS users in the past to Sasuke.
[/quote]
o.O;
WTF?! You actually think Sasuke is the reincarnation of Madara?! WTF, how does that make ANY sense, let alone MORE sense than the Kyuubi simply referencing his latent Mangekyou powers?! There's nothing that even remotely HINTS at reincarnation, and the theme of reincarnation itself isn't likely at all since none of the series has even glanced at the idea of such a thing.
I'm telling you, everything just screams "Mangekyou". It makes a helluva lot of sense. It's practically undeniable.
And the reason the Kyuubi referenced Madara only, assuming he WAS a Mangekyou user, is because the Mangekyou was stated to be a rare form that few had the potential for and even fewer ever actually achieved. The chances of attaining Mangekyou are slim enough, but to attain Mangekyou and then run into the Kyuubi and fight it... It's not like the Kyuubi had a list of every Mangekyou user and fought all of them in the past at some point. Chances are, he ran into one of 'em and it happened to be Madara. The Kyuubi must have SOME relation to the Uchiha clan, so it must've known SOMETHING about Mangekyou, but the only user it probably ever faced was Madara. After all, Orochimaru only knew of 5 outstanding Uchiha (possibly Mangekyou users), two who died a long time ago, one he killed himself, Itachi, and a fifth Uchiha, who is either Sasuke or someone else. If someone like Orochimaru, as obsessed as he is with the Sharingan, only knew of 5 special Uchiha, then the Mangekyou form is probably pretty damned rare. I mean, Oro no doubt did some serious research on the Sharingan, so he must've come across the full list of all of the Uchiha clan's past prodigies on record. Since it's unlikely that Oro beat a Mangekyou user, the one he killed was probably just really skilled with the three-point Sharingan. That would leave four potential Mangekyou users, one of them confirmed to have it (Itachi). So the chances of the Kyuubi running into more than one Mangekyou user are pretty much nil.

__________________

Bow to the King.

JAIF

Stated then. Itachi owns the Kyuubi. And I own DBAFKiller <_<
Ok not exactly, I doubt Sharingan users can infinitely supress the Kyuubi's chakra. However, I still retain my doubts as to whether the foxy was referring to the Mangekyou or the Sharingan as a whole. Considering the Kyuubi was looking at the regular 3-tomoe Sharingan at that point... he might have been talking about Sasuke's capabilities... still, we'll see.
As for Orochimaru beating a Mangekyou user, it's impossible. It must've happened a long time pre-clan-slaying, in which case, Orochimaru would sstill be 'loyal' to Konoha and not strong enough at all for one of them. That's why I question the whole 'Kyuubi means Mangekyou' theory.

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Nikushimi

[quote user="JAIF"]Stated then. Itachi owns the Kyuubi. And I own DBAFKiller <_<
Ok not exactly, I doubt Sharingan users can infinitely supress the Kyuubi's chakra. However, I still retain my doubts as to whether the foxy was referring to the Mangekyou or the Sharingan as a whole. Considering the Kyuubi was looking at the regular 3-tomoe Sharingan at that point... he might have been talking about Sasuke's capabilities... still, we'll see.
As for Orochimaru beating a Mangekyou user, it's impossible. It must've happened a long time pre-clan-slaying, in which case, Orochimaru would sstill be 'loyal' to Konoha and not strong enough at all for one of them. That's why I question the whole 'Kyuubi means Mangekyou' theory.
[/quote]
Like I said, the Kyuubi may have meant "latent" Mangekyou. That means that he looked at Sasuke, could somehow see his chakra, and noticed that it resembled this "Madara" person's chakra.
How does Oro being too weak to beat a Mangekyou user make you disbelieve that the Kyuubi was referring to the Mangekyou Sharingan? They're two unrelated instances. Oro STATED that he killed a very powerful Uchiha a long time ago. This was most likely NOT a Mangekyou user. However, Oro no doubt researched the Sharingan, so he must've come across a mention of Mangekyou. Or at least, he must've seen a list of all of the Uchiha clan's past prodigies, one or more of which were bound to have Mangekyou. And Oro was evil, even pre-Uchiha-clan-slaying. Afterall, oro's fifty, yet Sarutobi didn't know he had perfected Furofushi. So Oro was probably in his mid-late twenties by the time Sarutobi caught him, after which he fled and joined Akatsuki, leaving a large time gap between then and the Uchiha massacre. But before even that, he had already begun to abduct people and had been experimenting for a long time. So actually, Oro was pretty much evil from the start. It's highly plausible that an Uchiha found out about him and tried to take him down, but Oro killed him. Or Oro may have killed this Uchiha AFTER fleeing Konoha. Or maybe this "outstanding Uchiha" was Shisui, which would sort of mean that my whole "Oro killed the Uchiha clan, not Itachi" theory would be, oddly enough, correct. o_O;

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Bow to the King.

SS2 Vegeto

You could paraphrase the Kyuubi's statement as "Such powerful eyes, as well as chakra more sinister than my own". I don't see that it in any way has to refer to the mangekyo sharingan.

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Nikushimi

[quote user="SS2 Vegeto"]You could paraphrase the Kyuubi's statement as "Such powerful eyes, as well as chakra more sinister than my own". I don't see that it in any way has to refer to the mangekyo sharingan.
[/quote]
But if you examine the whole statement, it still points to Mangekyou Sharingan. Essentially, the Kyuubi says that an Uchiha named "Madara" had similar eyes and chakra (hence the Kyuubi saying "...not unlike that Uchiha Madara"). The Kyuubi also referred to the Uchiha clan/the Sharingan as "that cursed clan" or "that cursed bloodline" or "that forsaken ancestry". However, you role the dice and diversify the translation, it still screams "Mangekyou" like some sort of genetically-engineered "Mangekyou"-screaming gorilla...

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Bow to the King.

SS2 Vegeto

Madara could have just had powerful eyes, chakra more sinister than the Kyuubi, and shared the accursed Uchiha bloodline without the mangekyo sharigan, could he not?

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Nikushimi

To be "more sinister than the Kyuubi", you'd have to be...pretty damned sinister. No regular-ass Uchiha with a regular-ass Sharingan is gonna be more sinister than the freaking Kyuubi.
A few good reasons why I think the Kyuubi was referring to Mangekyou are as follows: 1.) for the Kyuubi to acknowledge something as being "more sinister" than itself, it must be pretty damned evil, 2.) for the Kyuubi, a demon, to call the Uchiha bloodline "cursed", it must mean "Mangekyou", and 3.) for the Kyuubi to consider someone to have anything powerful (considering how powerful the Kyuubi itself is), that person must be freaking amazing.
Those are just three really basic reasons.

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Bow to the King.