Evil Vegeta

Base Goku on namek is not stronger then Goten. Unless you think Goten's SSJ multiplier is nearly 160x his power, which allowed Goten to spar with MSSJ Gohan. Goku's base is around 3,000,000 and I doubt SSJ increases Goten's power that much.

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Kid_Goku

If this is true, then there's no way that:

1) Goten could spar with Gohan

2) Trunks could land a hit on Vegeta that surprised him and forced him to retaliate with a hard punch.

3) They could fight #18 in base, with the disadvantage of having to wear a costume.

4) Piccolo would've been shocked by their power when they were powering up to their maxes on the Lookout.

As SSJs, they're WAY stronger than SSJ Goku (Freeza Arc).

Remixxx

1)Gohan didnt train for 7 YEARS 7 YEARS ....If he doesnt train for 7 years and doesnt have a partner for 7 years to sparre with its definitlly gonna be a schock to him and to his body to sudenlly have a SSJ as a sparring partner after 7 years since he was out of shape and a RUSTY SSJ.

Imagine yourself not doing any training for seven years you will obviouslly get weaker and if you try to do the same amount of weights that you did seven years before you aint gonna make it since you are out of shape and you definitlly gonna need time to get used to it again.

Not forgeting Vegeta supposedly being 10x stronger in ape form and fighting Goku, who can still dodge his attacks despite being les than 1/10 the power level. It also shows that they are only using a fraction

2)18 was going slow on them because she thought it was a normal human even krillin told her not to kill anyone before the torunament started....It wasa disadvntage but how much could a costume do to a fighter who can desroy planet with a finger.

This was some of the things i wanted to bring up but yes they ares tronger then Goku on nmaek

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Kid_Goku

So you're saying that a SSJ who is supposed to be around SSJ Goku's (Freeza Arc) power is going to make him sweat? lol.

That's a bad analogy. If Goten is as weak as you say, he wouldn't give him any problems at all; regardless of whether Gohan was rusty or not.

So you're saying that the power that he's using in his SSJ form (which is supposed to be comparable to Trunks' in order to spar with him) is weaker than his power when in base? lol, again you make no sense.

And they weren't fighting full-out either. What's your point? Also, from what I've seen, it didn't look like she was taking anything easy. There's no way a normal human would've been able to cope with the way she was fighting. She was intent on winning, so I don't see how she was "taking it easy". Also, a costume makes a big difference, noted by Trunks himself.

Remixxx

1)No i didnt not say that...... He is stronger then ssj goku on namek

2)Thats a total good analogy ..7 years without training and no sparing partner

3)Here i was saying that Goku shouldnt even be abel to dodge the attack from Ape Vegeta since he is like 1/10 of his power..wich shows that they are uing a fraction

4)She was going easy even krillin told her too..Why would she go full out against a human...I still belive that she raised effort a bit wich was showed to be enough to make them run from her and turn SSJ..

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Kid_Goku

No, it's not.

And I'm saying that it makes no sense.

Considering you have SSJ Trunks weaker than #18, then following your little theory, Vegeta's power at that point would've been compable to #18's, which puts him below his base.

They turned SSJ because they had difficulties fighting in the costume, so thought it would've been easier if they were super saiya-jins. Why are you ignoring this?

Tyrant

Regarding your "training with Gohan arguement", there have been numerous scenes where partners of completely uneven power levels are shown sparring equally. Most of it is just...for a lack of a better term... nonsense. The point is that Goten and Trunks were never shown beating any villain seperately.

You said Goten and Trunks had to be very strong or else Piccolo would not have been surprised by their power? I think he was just surprised that as kids they are so strong.

Evil Vegeta

Trunks & Goten's full-power was enough to blow Piccolo back. If they're as weak as you say, then that wouldn't take place. He saw them at the tourney, so them being powerful SSJ for kids doesn't matter at this point. Their power actually hit Piccolo and pushed him back, and that's more then surprise.

How often has the supposedly much weaker guy (Goten) forced the way more powerful guy (Gohan) to flee in the air from his power?

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Tyrant

"Their power levels forced Piccolo back" I don't see how that is such a definite indication of power and it is not a very strong argument at all. I could say base Goku (saiyan saga) was stronger than Vegeta just because Vegeta was surprised by his power level.

As for Gohan fleeing from Goten, this is one of those scenes where it's not always about power levels and more about fighting. There have been many scenes where weaker characters beat up stronger ones. Piccolo kicking Frieza for example.

Evil Vegeta

Except the battle with Vegeta proves otherwise. It is a very strong argument, instead of that, "Oh they're strong for kids argument", which is overdone.

Gohan looked like he wasn't havin such a good time. Your example was a surprise attack on Freeza, which Freeza got right up from. There were no surprise attacks in that sparring session.

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Tyrant

I'm going to rewatch that scene and I will get back to this soon.

EDIT: Ok, from watching that scene, there's not much conclusive evidence about Goten's power. All he does is attack Gohan and Gohan retreats (without fighting back). He was obviously just going easy on him, which is the point of proper training. You can't expect the weaker person to get stronger by getting pummelled over and over again, they need a bit of a chance to catch up.

Devilz

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Broly

The panel you need to see is in Volume 20, on page 133. It shows SSj Goten fighting with SSj Gohan [Buu Arc]. To me, you can't place Goten at so low a power when he's shown fighting so hard with his brother, who is strong enough to take on Dabra. The misconception that Goten and Trunks are really weak may stem from the view of their age and immaturity, but they're actually pretty strong once you realize the evidence.

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SRP76

It also shows base kid Gohan sparring with Super Saiyan Goku. I guess that means base Gohan = Super Saiyan Goku, right?

Evil Vegeta

SSJ Goku was shown going against both of them, and was using both of his arms to defend Piccolo & Gohan; totally different instance. Goten actually made Gohan flee in the air.

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