Tien(end of DBZ) vs. Vegeta(recoome zenkai) - Page 5

remixremix · 07-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by hero_764

1) Define high millions. If its around Freeza's pl then stfu, it isn't possible to have that big of a gain.

2) Quit ignoring everything I am saying.

3) So what if he survived a kick? You have no idea how much power he put into that kick, and he was knocked out instantly. Plus he could've already been dead, you never know. He died anyways when Kidd Buu blew the earth up.

4) Wow, how original. Remix can't come up with his own proof so he demands that I show him some. -_-

Piccolo had fused twice by that point, which increases your power by A TON. Tien didn't do any of that. He never had a sparring partner past the Frieza Saga, he doesn't get zenkais, he has no transformations, he never fused. Its just not logically that he would be at Piccolo's level, who fused twice and also partner trained with someone who was the strongest being in the universe at that time.

5) He wasn't shown training, for all you know he was just living there. And even if he devoted his life to training, it's still not logical to think that he is as high as you think he is.

6) Quit ignoring my fucking points...I ALREADY EXPLAINED WHY HE GAINED MORE THAN GOKU DID AT KAMI'S LOOKOUT

You want proof? You say he devoted his life to training right? Well how come he was only at 250 after FIVE YEARS of training between DB and DBZ?

7) Are you retarded? Because it sounds like you think that Tien(Android Saga) is stronger than SSJ Vegeta ROFL

8) You are impossible. I'll say it again...even if he was at 100% Freeza's power he would still be an idiot to fight Gotenks Buu.

9) Why don't you prove that Chioatzu counts a lot?

10) I think you need to read the manga again

Uub(enraged)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Frieza.

Maybe the fact that he gave Goku a good fight? And why the fuck would you use someone else's logic to make your own argument?

So this is the best you can do ..its stil didnt changhe my view at all

1)iM NOT SAYING THAT HE IS STRONGER THEN fREEZA IN THE aNDROID SAGa just that he is stronger then freeza at the end of Z.In the android saga i would put him at 20-50mill millions since this would be the most reasonabel place to puth im going by what he did to cell

3)No mater how much he survived it and i doubt that it was an easy kick because he called him legenedray seconds ago and reflected a blast from him so you cant ingore this things too.And he aint gonna be called legendray if he just stronger then normal humans he atleast need to be at frreeza Pl to be caLLED LEGENDRAY FROM GOTENKS BUU AND YOU KNOW IT

4)PIccolo until the FrEEZA Saga fused only once

...Secondly you cant prove that after the Freeza saga he didnt have a training partner its just stupid...he sure mostlly had one no matter who it was he had one....And once again im not. putting. him. stronge.r then .Freeza. in. the. android. saga.Jeeza get it

5)Yes it is logical until i see a proof that could prove me wrong ....the argument because he is a human and thats why he is not that strong doesnt work

6)And how was Goku almost on the same spot as he was.

7)I already explained this and i never implied that ...Im gonna reapet myself again....The thing that he just wanted to help and the fact that he knew that those androids where a lot stronger then freza...And after seing how 18 kicked vegetas ass easilly,The fact that he still wanted to fight after all that means A LOT LOT...No matter if he was defeated easilly even trunks,piccolo and vegeta where defeated as easilly so he cant be around 30 k atleast he should be a lot stronger then that

8)I know even if he was at Frezas power it would still be an ididotic thing...but the fact that he wanted to help indicates that he cant be weak at all

9)And why dont you prove that trainign alone cant be as affective as with a partner

10)Maybe im wrong but as far as i remeber he wanted to fight him after he saw yamcha talking with him

-A good fight please he a child that never had a real training..and base Goku Pl is Unknown it was proven that Dabura is not a good at Pl sensing at all so Goku base could just as easilly be around his namek ssj power at that time or even weaker

T-1000 · 07-05-2008

Tien wasted Vegeta with the Neo trie beam. And this is the end of the fight.

hero_764 · 07-06-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by remixremix

So this is the best you can do ..its stil didnt changhe my view at all

Of course it didn't change your view at all. Your remixremix, one of the biggest Tien fanboys on the site, nothing is gonna change your view. I don't know why I even bother arguing with you :S

Quote:

1)iM NOT SAYING THAT HE IS STRONGER THEN fREEZA IN THE aNDROID SAGa just that he is stronger then freeza at the end of Z.In the android saga i would put him at 20-50mill millions since this would be the most reasonabel place to puth im going by what he did to cell

20-50 million? What. The. Fuck. How in the hell is it possible for him to get that high?

Quote:

3)No mater how much he survived it and i doubt that it was an easy kick because he called him legenedray seconds ago and reflected a blast from him so you cant ingore this things too.And he aint gonna be called legendray if he just stronger then normal humans he atleast need to be at frreeza Pl to be caLLED LEGENDRAY FROM GOTENKS BUU AND YOU KNOW IT

Krillin was knocked out by a single kick from Reacoome. He was around 10,000 at the lowest, and Reacoome was around 45,000 at the lowest, that's 4.5x difference. Even if Tien WAS at Freeza 100%'s power level Gotenks Buu was around what? 1,000 times stronger than him? And get off the legendary comment, it proves nothing.

Quote:

4)PIccolo until the FrEEZA Saga fused only once

...Secondly you cant prove that after the Freeza saga he didnt have a training partner its just stupid...he sure mostlly had one no matter who it was he had one....And once again im not. putting. him. stronge.r then .Freeza. in. the. android. saga.Jeeza get it

Wow, you actually forgot what we were discussing ROFL. I was talking about Piccolo in the Buu Saga, since you said that Tien was legendary compared to him.

Quote:

5)Yes it is logical until i see a proof that could prove me wrong ....the argument because he is a human and thats why he is not that strong doesnt work

WELL WHY DON'T YOU FUCKING EXPLAIN HOW IT'S LOGICAL?

Quote:

6)And how was Goku almost on the same spot as he was.

What the fuck?

Quote:

7)I already explained this and i never implied that ...Im gonna reapet myself again....The thing that he just wanted to help and the fact that he knew that those androids where a lot stronger then freza...And after seing how 18 kicked vegetas ass easilly,The fact that he still wanted to fight after all that means A LOT LOT...No matter if he was defeated easilly even trunks,piccolo and vegeta where defeated as easilly so he cant be around 30 k atleast he should be a lot stronger then that

I am like an inch away from giving up...you're just hopeless. The fact that he wanted to fight makes him a fucking retard, not stronger than SSJ Vegeta like you seem to think -_-

Quote:

8)I know even if he was at Frezas power it would still be an ididotic thing...but the fact that he wanted to help indicates that he cant be weak at all

You seem to forget that 100% Freeza would be considered very weak in that saga, so it doesn't fucking matter.

Quote:

9)And why dont you prove that trainign alone cant be as affective as with a partner

The fact that Tien was so much weaker than Piccolo at the start of the android saga?

Quote:

10)Maybe im wrong but as far as i remeber he wanted to fight him after he saw yamcha talking with him

He never mentioned wanting to fight him.

Quote:

-A good fight please he a child that never had a real training..and base Goku Pl is Unknown it was proven that Dabura is not a good at Pl sensing at all so Goku base could just as easilly be around his namek ssj power at that time or even weaker

Even if he was that weak, Namek SSJ Goku>100% Freeza lol

USSJed · 07-06-2008

Once again a rushed argument, so it might not be perfect...

Remix, please spell correctly and use grammar, and try to put more substanance into your argument as well(Although I would settle for you to just ditch that horrid rushed look your posts have, it makes the thread look untidy and makes you very hard to understand)

And Hero, you CONSTANTLY make assumptions and treat them as fact, kindly stop it right now.

Various

Quote:

Opinion.

I was saying that what he said was 100% false, because he was saying that an opinon of his was fact.

Quote:

3)He still did it wich counts a fighter with a 30 thousand Pl wont be abel to do that in a million years

3) A fighter with even Freeza's pl wouldn't logically be able to do that, but he did and that's what counts..

Is this in referance to the Anti Cell Kikoho, if not then what is it talking about?

Quote:

Buu: A legendary fighter...But one kick felled him. Don't you see? Whatever you do, you'll never even scratch my skin.

Rep to you, once the rep system starts working(I have trouble repping right now due to obscene lag)

On Tien's Training(And training in general)

Quote:

9) Why don't you prove that Chioatzu counts a lot?

You are the one saying Chaotzu is too weak to be useful for training. You are the one making the assumption here, so it is up to you to prove this. Not remix or myself.

Quote:

Split form training? Explain how that works.

Tien splits into four, they fight each other/do press ups/run with weights etc. This nifty training style is shown by Piccolo in the anime, so watch that if you want to see an example of it in action. Also, due to the fact each copy is weaker than the original, it is an excellent way to bypass this "1xgravity is obsolete" argument. Note that he could split into more than four people.

Quote:

And we never saw Tien use his split form after DB, or even mention using it in training. We didn't see him use it to train at Kami's lookout or at King Kai's. Everytime it shows Tien and Chiaotzu out isolated it never shows a split form of Tien.

For the King Kai and Kami look out stuff, Tien training at full power against Yamcha is better than two weak Tien's training against each other, in the same way Piccolo training with an SSJ is undoubtably better than training against someone equal or weaker than him. As for the last point, perhaps one split was training with Chaotzu, or perhaps that was their warm up before Tien split. Thats easily the best point anyone has brought up sofar, but it is far from conculsive.

Quote:

When Tien splits, his power is also split into the various Tien's. So I doubt that type of training would be that good.

It's good because it gets around any power limitations for training in x1 gravity, and also gets around the decrease in your increase as you increase your power.

Quote:

Yamcha had sparring partners for that one year, and never again. And like I said, and most people agree, it does get harder as you get more powerful. He's not gonna increase his power by 8x every year he trains...

Look, you do not know the rate of decline for training increases. The thing is, he might increase x8 in year one, and then x7.9 in year two, then x7.8 in year three. On the other hand, he might increase by x8 in year one, and then x0.5 in year two, we have no fucking clue, which means you can not dismiss the possibility of whole level multiplier increases per year. Also, the increases we saw in the Saiyan Saga, are a much better indicator of increase per year than any assumptous statement.

Quote:

If you do 10,000 pushups instead of 5,000 it would take twice as long, right? So if you double your daily training it could possibly take two days to complete it, right?

The logic behind that exact situation is correct. But, that is a retarded idea of increasing your training. You would do 10,000 in the time it takes to do 5,000, or do 5,000 with a 10 ton boulder on your back, do 5,000 with one hand while lifting weights with the other, etc. Not just do more of the same thing.

Quote:

9) If anything Chiaotzu would be getting major gains to his power level, but Tien told him to stay at home since the androids would be too much for him, so he was obviously way below Tien. Chiaotzu doesn't count, I doubt he ever surpassed 9,000 xD

Tien's statement indicates that he thinks he could have some effect on the Androids, while Chaotzu is much weaker than them and so can do nothing. You cannot attribute that to an exact power level. And as for this statement, kindly STFU,you cannot go around saying "Oh Chaotzu doesn't count because I dont think he is strong enough to do anything", its pissing me off to the level where I am tempted to neg rep you for it.

On Dr Gero, and his estimation of Goku's strength

Quote:

I doubt they calculated their increase per year, cuz that's a bit ridiculous.

I will say this once, and it applys to every statement like this. If need be I will use it as a mini wall so read it and do not discredit Dr Gero's statement without proof to back yourself up.

Dr Gero stated that Yamcha was stronger than even the highest rate of increase that he expected of Goku. That means he had some kind of chart, or mathematical system etc, to detirmine how strong he expected Goku to get. Keep in mind he had seen Goku go from like 100(vs RR army) to 32,000(Kaoken VS Vegeta, Dr Gero could easily interpret the Kaoken as Goku's full power and not just a technique) in like 10 years or something. So simply put, Dr Gero had a way of estimating the power level of an opponent after a period of time.

Quote:

I really hate these set multipliers for training. There's just way too many god damn variables that could change.

The idea is to set it between the highest and lowest possibles, as a medium level. That way we get an idea of the levels of strength the character can reach. So for example, if I said Mr Popo was 100 and increased at x3 per year, after three years he would be 2700, which would not be an exact level, but to give an idea of the sort of levels he has reached. He could be 2412 or 3281 for all I know.

On the Kikoho

Quote:

Even if you use Jed's stupidly high multipliers from the other thread they still come nowhere near Freeza.

Quote:

I thought you guys hated having Tien's KiKoHo multiplier so high?

They are stupidly high because they are based on your idiotic assumptions that Tien cannot reach the millions. Fact, that if Tien is only in the 10's of thousands, then his attack needs to be thousands of times stronger than him, or a pushing attack, which I notice you have made no mention of my counterargument towards.

Quote:

Not to butt in to Majuub's argument, but his KiKoHo is definetly a different attack than a normal energy blast attack. He doesn't need to charge to use it, and doesn't shoot a direct beam.

Firstly, by you I meant everyone arguing that Tien is weak, not just Majuub. Secondly, it does not have to be a "direct beam" to inflict damage. Take Vegeta's Gesture O Doom attacks for example. No beam, no charge, opponent explodes.

Quote:

You're telling me he regenerated his DNA sometime while flying? I think they would've shown us...

By this logic Cell would have said "Oh look the dirt is flying off due to my high speed!" if it was in fact dirt.

Quote:

What are you talking about? All five of them knocked him down.

Look at the pictures. He vibrates, there is no indication at all that he gets knocked down with shots 2-4.

Piccolo and other characters

Quote:

The fact that

Tien was so much weaker than Piccolo at the start of the android saga?

Says who? As I mentioned at the beginning of this post, you constantly make assumptions and treat them as fact. STOP RIGHT NOW.

Quote:

Piccolo had fused twice by that point, which increases your power by A TON. Tien didn't do any of that. He never had a sparring partner past the Frieza Saga, he doesn't get zenkais, he has no transformations, he never fused. Its just not logically that he would be at Piccolo's level, who fused twice and also partner trained with someone who was the strongest being in the universe at that time.

Ok I thought I made this clear, Tien had Chaotzu to train with, not to mention himself. Piccolo does not get Zenkai's either, and cannot transform. And lastly, Piccolo had fused ONCE by that point, not TWICE.

Never use those arguments in the Tien-Piccolo comparison again. You are pulling shit out of your ass, and the lack of Zenkai's and transformations apply to both Tien and Piccolo so seriously, stop mentioning them.

7) Are you retarded? Because it sounds like you think that Tien(Android Saga) is stronger than SSJ Vegeta ROFL

Quote:

How is that a fact? There's no way of knowing how much power he put into it.

You really think Piccolo did not put all of his power into that? I don't know what to say, it's just so damn idiotic.

Quote:

7) Are you retarded? Because it sounds like you think that Tien(Android Saga) is stronger than SSJ Vegeta ROFL

I am not reading half of what Remix writes, and even I know that the Tien>SSJ Vegeta comparison is something you came up with from what Remix said. Stop putting words into his mouth.

Various

Quote:

20-50 million? What. The. Fuck. How in the hell is it possible for him to get that high?

Theres no stated levels post Frieza. In that three years, everyone could have increased by 100000x their Frieza Saga PL's for all we know.

Quote:

Even if Tien WAS at Freeza 100%'s power level Gotenks Buu was around what? 1,000 times stronger than him?

By my calculations(which I admit are incomplete, and won't be done for a few hours), Gotenks Buu could be as low as 50x Frieza's strength.

Edit: I think it would be better if all of us(including me) stuck to shorter posts and kept them more on topic. These huge posts are terrible to type and it is hard to fully pay attention throughout the whole thing...

remixremix · 07-06-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by hero_764

Of course it didn't change your view at all. Your remixremix, one of the biggest Tien fanboys on the site, nothing is gonna change your view. I don't know why I even bother arguing with you :S

20-50 million? What. The. Fuck. How in the hell is it possible for him to get that high?

Well there you go

and stop ignoring the kikoho since a fighter with a 30 thoisand Pl would never be abel to do to cell what he did...he can only be a lot stronger to do what he did and You know that since its the most logical thing...I have him from 20-50 just because he had an intensive training for the three years.So im assuming(until someone proves me wrong that he is not) that he is this high because if he didnt improve a lot he wouldnt show up to fight the androids who are supossedly stronger then Freeza

Wow, you actually forgot what we were discussing ROFL. I was talking about Piccolo in the Buu Saga, since you said that Tien was legendary compared to him.

I know and please stop ignoring agAIN LOGICAL THINGS just the fact that he showed Up to fight Gotenks buu counts if he was that weak like you are saying he wouldnt even show up.And how can you say that the legendary comment doesnt count..please..it does to get recognize from Gotenk buu counts a lot..Do you belive that someone who has Piccolo inside would CALL TIEN A LEGENDARY HUMAN WITH A PL OF 30 THOUSAN PLEASE DOMT MAKE ME LAUGH

WELL WHY DON'T YOU FUCKING EXPLAIN HOW IT'S LOGICAL?

AGIN STOP PUTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH.....And why dont you explain to me why it is not logical for humans to get a big power up it was not stated like they cant

What the fuck?

No comment you know what i ment

I am like an inch away from giving up...you're just hopeless. The fact that he wanted to fight makes him a fucking retard, not stronger than SSJ Vegeta like you seem to think -_-

ARE YOU DUMB,RETARDED,OR SOMETHING..I NEVER ONCE SAID THAT HE IS STRONGER THEN SSJ VEGETA....I SAID JUST THE FACT THAT HE WANTED TO FIGHT 17 COUNTS and even after seing how vegeta was beaten easilly he still wanted to fight so he cant be weak at all

You seem to forget that 100% Freeza would be considered very weak in that saga, so it doesn't fucking matter.

Now i lost you

....He would be consider but no matter what and YOU CANT INGMOR IT AND ONCE AGAIN IM GONNa REPEAT MYSELF just the fact that he wanted to help counts so with all of this he cant be weak at all

The fact that Tien was so much weaker than Piccolo at the start of the android saga?

And this proves nothing at all ....SO because you cant COUNTER IT YOU WILL IGNOR IT....Please prove that training alone cant be as affective as with a partner

He never mentioned wanting to fight him.

I already expalined this..just because he showed up counts

Even if he was that weak, Namek SSJ Goku>100% Freeza lol

Goku base Could be weaker but this doesnt mater

This aint going nowhere since you aint gonna change my view and im not gonna change yours....I have more indications or lets say proof for him having a large battel power...And on the other side the argument he cant be that strong he is a human doesnt work at all since it was never stated that the humans cant get a big power up...aND PLEASE further on stop putting words into peopels mouths

The answer is in brown

hero_764 · 07-06-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by USSJed

And Hero, you CONSTANTLY make assumptions and treat them as fact, kindly stop it right now.

Seriously? Yeah, like Remix isn't doing that as well...

Quote:

Is this in referance to the Anti Cell Kikoho, if not then what is it talking about?

Its talking about the KiKoHo that reflected Buu's attack.

Quote:

You are the one saying Chaotzu is too weak to be useful for training. You are the one making the assumption here, so it is up to you to prove this. Not remix or myself.

-_- Why do I have to be the one to prove it? You guys are the one's assuming it does add to the training.

Just think logically. If Goku(android saga) sparred Roshi he would win in an instant, right? Even if he let Roshi win it wouldn't better his skill, just Roshi's. Same with Chiaotzu. The difference between Tien and Chiaotzu is pretty big, otherwise Chiaotzu wouldn't have been left at home while Tien went to fight the androids. Yamcha stated he was the most useless one out of everyone, but if Tien doesn't even want Chiaotzu to fight, wouldn't that make him weaker than Yamcha? And even if Chiaotzu was within maybe 20,000, it would still be a big difference. Goku's 416 compared to Roshi's 139 is enough for Roshi to know he wouldn't stand a chance.

Quote:

Tien splits into four, they fight each other/do press ups/run with weights etc. This nifty training style is shown by Piccolo in the anime, so watch that if you want to see an example of it in action. Also, due to the fact each copy is weaker than the original, it is an excellent way to bypass this "1xgravity is obsolete" argument. Note that he could split into more than four people.

So if he split into four people and did ten pushups with one ton of weight of each of their backs it would = doing 40 pushups with 4 tons of weight on his back?

Quote:

For the King Kai and Kami look out stuff, Tien training at full power against Yamcha is better than two weak Tien's training against each other, in the same way Piccolo training with an SSJ is undoubtably better than training against someone equal or weaker than him. As for the last point, perhaps one split was training with Chaotzu, or perhaps that was their warm up before Tien split. Thats easily the best point anyone has brought up sofar, but it is far from conculsive.

Yeah, its not conclusive. But don't you think he would've mentioned that he could do that or something?

I.E

Yamcha: Hey Tien wanna train w/ me.

Tien: No way n00b.

Yamcha: WTF? Its better than training by yourself you fucking antisocial prick.

Tien: Fuck you dude, I can use split form.

Yamcha: (laughs) Wow, have fun talking to yourself for three years..

Quote:

Look, you do not know the rate of decline for training increases. The thing is, he might increase x8 in year one, and then x7.9 in year two, then x7.8 in year three. On the other hand, he might increase by x8 in year one, and then x0.5 in year two, we have no fucking clue, which means you can not dismiss the possibility of whole level multiplier increases per year. Also, the increases we saw in the Saiyan Saga, are a much better indicator of increase per year than any assumptous statement.

The only problem with basing it on the Saiyan is(like I said before...) that this was the only time in DBZ that the humans would actually train together. After that Yamcha trained alone at Bulma's house(I doubt Vegeta would train with him xD) and Krillin trained alone at Roshi's island. Tien trained alone in the mountains. Krillin and Yamcha both stopped training after the Cell Games and it is unknown whether Tien did or not(he could've just enjoyed living in the mountains). Training with Partners>>>Training with self

Quote:

The logic behind that exact situation is correct. But, that is a retarded idea of increasing your training. You would do 10,000 in the time it takes to do 5,000, or do 5,000 with a 10 ton boulder on your back, do 5,000 with one hand while lifting weights with the other, etc. Not just do more of the same thing.

Yeah but it would still take longer to do a pushup with 10 tons on your back instead of 5.

Quote:

Tien's statement indicates that he thinks he could have some effect on the Androids, while Chaotzu is much weaker than them and so can do nothing. You cannot attribute that to an exact power level. And as for this statement, kindly STFU,you cannot go around saying "Oh Chaotzu doesn't count because I dont think he is strong enough to do anything", its pissing me off to the level where I am tempted to neg rep you for it.

Read above.

Quote:

Dr Gero stated that Yamcha was stronger than even the highest rate of increase that he expected of Goku. That means he had some kind of chart, or mathematical system etc, to detirmine how strong he expected Goku to get. Keep in mind he had seen Goku go from like 100(vs RR army) to 32,000(Kaoken VS Vegeta, Dr Gero could easily interpret the Kaoken as Goku's full power and not just a technique) in like 10 years or something. So simply put, Dr Gero had a way of estimating the power level of an opponent after a period of time.

Can I get some quotes from Volume 13 about this?(once again, I lost mine..)

Anyways, I bet that Gero's spy robots would've heard Goku explaining the Kaio Ken to Krillin and Gohan, and even if he thought he gained 320x his power in 10 years(32x a year..) that would put Yamcha at above 45 fucking million that's fucking ridiculous.

Quote:

The idea is to set it between the highest and lowest possibles, as a medium level. That way we get an idea of the levels of strength the character can reach. So for example, if I said Mr Popo was 100 and increased at x3 per year, after three years he would be 2700, which would not be an exact level, but to give an idea of the sort of levels he has reached. He could be 2412 or 3281 for all I know.

What I don't fully understand about it is how come the stronger you get, the higher additive gains you get from training? If someone gained half of their power level every year, starting at 100 they would get 150 the first year. After that why would they know get 75 levels instead of 50?

Quote:

Firstly, by you I meant everyone arguing that Tien is weak, not just Majuub. Secondly, it does not have to be a "direct beam" to inflict damage. Take Vegeta's Gesture O Doom attacks for example. No beam, no charge, opponent explodes.

That's a completely different kind of attack. You can't use that as a comparison to KiKoHo. Yes I know it can cause damage, but Cell made no mention of being hurt or wounded at all. He just seemed pissed off that he was held back by the attack, not hurt by it.

Quote:

By this logic Cell would have said "Oh look the dirt is flying off due to my high speed!" if it was in fact dirt.

No, because characters get dirt on themselves all the time when falling into mountains and stuff. They never make mention of how dirty they are.

Namekians have never shown to regenerate skin after a scorch mark. I think if Cell were going to do that he would say something like "damn, Tien hurt me. Oh well, I can just use regeneration to replenish my skin."

Quote:

Look at the pictures. He vibrates, there is no indication at all that he gets knocked down with shots 2-4.

I know that the anime doesn't count, but I'm pretty sure that it showed Cell getting pushed down.

Quote:

Tien was so much weaker than Piccolo at the start of the android saga?

Akira Toriyama? People were commenting on Piccolo's high power. Tien didn't step in say "OH YA? WELL I'M STRONGR BIZNATCH!" or have anyone comment on his power.

Quote:

Says who? As I mentioned at the beginning of this post, you constantly make assumptions and treat them as fact. STOP RIGHT NOW.

GUESS WHAT? YOU AND REMIXREMIX DO THE EXACT SAME THING.

Quote:

Ok I thought I made this clear, Tien had Chaotzu to train with, not to mention himself. Piccolo does not get Zenkai's either, and cannot transform. And lastly, Piccolo had fused ONCE by that point, not TWICE.

Err...no, we were talking about Piccolo IN THE BUU SAGA.

Quote:

Never use those arguments in the Tien-Piccolo comparison again. You are pulling shit out of your ass, and the lack of Zenkai's and transformations apply to both Tien and Piccolo so seriously, stop mentioning them.

Ugh...I was more comparing him to Saiyans and such who had gotten stronger than Piccolo mostly because of those things.

Quote:

I am not reading half of what Remix writes, and even I know that the Tien>SSJ Vegeta comparison is something you came up with from what Remix said. Stop putting words into his mouth.

You shouldn't assume. -_- I told him that fighting 17 wasn't showing his strength, but his stupidity, especially since he saw Vegeta get owned. And then Remix says something like(I couldn't really understand him): no even if he did see vegeta get owned he still went to fight and that makes him strong(read his post)

Quote:

Theres no stated levels post Frieza. In that three years, everyone could have increased by 100000x their Frieza Saga PL's for all we know.

That makes no sense. If everyone increased their power by that much the differences would be EXACTLY the same as in the Frieza Saga.

Quote:

By my calculations(which I admit are incomplete, and won't be done for a few hours), Gotenks Buu could be as low as 50x Frieza's strength.

Wtf? How did you come up with that(unless you used incredibly low SSJ multipliers)

Quote:

Well there you go

and stop ignoring the kikoho since a fighter with a 30 thoisand Pl would never be abel to do to cell what he did...he can only be a lot stronger to do what he did and You know that since its the most logical thing...I have him from 20-50 just because he had an intensive training for the three years.So im assuming(until someone proves me wrong that he is not) that he is this high because if he didnt improve a lot he wouldnt show up to fight the androids who are supossedly stronger then Freeza

OMG PLEASE USE PROPER GRAMMAR. And when did I ever say that Tien was at 30 thousand? I have him around 80 thousand during the Android Saga.

But just so you shut up, I'll show you how its impossible even using the Saiyan Saga multipliers.

Comes back from King Kai's at around 30,000 ok? That still only puts him at around 11 million if you mutiply his power level by 7.2 a year, which is way too high.

Quote:

I know and please stop ignoring agAIN LOGICAL THINGS just the fact that he showed Up to fight Gotenks buu counts if he was that weak like you are saying he wouldnt even show up.And how can you say that the legendary comment doesnt count..please..it does to get recognize from Gotenk buu counts a lot..Do you belive that someone who has Piccolo inside would CALL TIEN A LEGENDARY HUMAN WITH A PL OF 30 THOUSAN PLEASE DOMT MAKE ME LAUGH

I'm gonna neg rep you if you ignore what I say one more time...(1 rep power FTW xD)

Why do you think that Freeza's power level would be considered legendary to Gotenks Buu?

Quote:

AGIN STOP PUTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH.....And why dont you explain to me why it is not logical for humans to get a big power up it was not stated like they cant

wtf? How was I putting words into your mouth. You're saying its logical for Tien to get to Freeza's power level without any evidence. ALL I'M DOING IS ASKING YOU TO PROVE SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF.

Quote:

No comment you know what i ment

No I really didn't, please rephrase so I can understand cuz your grammar makes no fucking sense.

Quote:

ARE YOU DUMB,RETARDED,OR SOMETHING..I NEVER ONCE SAID THAT HE IS STRONGER THEN SSJ VEGETA....I SAID JUST THE FACT THAT HE WANTED TO FIGHT 17 COUNTS and even after seing how vegeta was beaten easilly he still wanted to fight so he cant be weak at all

*tears hair out* Because he wanted to help he's magically stronger? WTF?! THAT PROVES NOTHING

Quote:

Now i lost you

....He would be consider but no matter what and YOU CANT INGMOR IT AND ONCE AGAIN IM GONNa REPEAT MYSELF just the fact that he wanted to help counts so with all of this he cant be weak at all

Define weak(if you say 30 thousand you're getting neg repped).

Quote:

And this proves nothing at all ....SO because you cant COUNTER IT YOU WILL IGNOR IT....Please prove that training alone cant be as affective as with a partner

Hi there mr. hypocrite.

I already explained why Piccolo was stronger than Tien, so good day

Quote:

I already expalined this..just because he showed up counts

Read above.

Quote:

This aint going nowhere since you aint gonna change my view and im not gonna change yours....I have more indications or lets say proof for him having a large battel power...And on the other side the argument he cant be that strong he is a human doesnt work at all since it was never stated that the humans cant get a big power up...aND PLEASE further on stop putting words into peopels mouths

There's nothing stating that humans can get a big power up either.

**LegendarySSJ7** · 07-06-2008

My fellow posters, try not to get riled up with whim and please make an attempt at restraining yourself from throwing abrasive insults to one to the other. The resulting events of that are bruised egos and no resolution. Remember that it's a preteen Anime and Manga.

As for the topic of discussion, I would say Tenshinhan might even give Vegeta (2nd auto-evolution augmentation on Namek) a run for his money; but that anything after that would be suicide for Tenshinhan.

hero_764 · 07-06-2008

Sorry...I got a little pissed off I guess.

I apologize Remix if anything I've said has hurt you. :)

remixremix · 07-06-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by hero_764

Sorry...I got a little pissed off I guess.

I apologize Remix if anything I've said has hurt you. :)

I dont give a damn neg rep me if you want im gonna neg rep you too

First off im not from an english speaking country i belive you could have noticed it so far

07-05-2008	#62 (permalink)
T-1000 (13) Great Ape Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 274 Rep Power: 2	Re: Tien(end of DBZ) vs. Vegeta(recoome zenkai) Tien wasted Vegeta with the Neo trie beam. And this is the end of the fight. __________________

07-06-2008	#67 (permalink)
LegendarySSJ7 Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,425 Rep Power: 11	Re: Tien(end of DBZ) vs. Vegeta(recoome zenkai) My fellow posters, try not to get riled up with whim and please make an attempt at restraining yourself from throwing abrasive insults to one to the other. The resulting events of that are bruised egos and no resolution. Remember that it's a preteen Anime and Manga. As for the topic of discussion, I would say Tenshinhan might even give Vegeta (2nd auto-evolution augmentation on Namek) a run for his money; but that anything after that would be suicide for Tenshinhan. __________________

07-06-2008	#68 (permalink)
hero_764 (19) Mastered Super Saiyan Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,117 Rep Power: 23	Re: Tien(end of DBZ) vs. Vegeta(recoome zenkai) Sorry...I got a little pissed off I guess. I apologize Remix if anything I've said has hurt you. :) __________________ Corruption RPG - Join Today! Top 5 Villains: 1. Raditz 2. Vegeta 3. Cui 4. Frieza 5. Semi-Perfect Cell(17 absorbed) Top 5 Heroes: 1. Piccolo 2. Nail 3. Goku 4. Yajirobe 5. Krillin Dragon Ball Power Level Dragon Ball Z Power Levels