remixremix

So this is the best you can do ..its stil didnt changhe my view at all

1)iM NOT SAYING THAT HE IS STRONGER THEN fREEZA IN THE aNDROID SAGa just that he is stronger then freeza at the end of Z.In the android saga i would put him at 20-50mill millions since this would be the most reasonabel place to puth im going by what he did to cell

3)No mater how much he survived it and i doubt that it was an easy kick because he called him legenedray seconds ago and reflected a blast from him so you cant ingore this things too.And he aint gonna be called legendray if he just stronger then normal humans he atleast need to be at frreeza Pl to be caLLED LEGENDRAY FROM GOTENKS BUU AND YOU KNOW IT

4)PIccolo until the FrEEZA Saga fused only once...Secondly you cant prove that after the Freeza saga he didnt have a training partner its just stupid...he sure mostlly had one no matter who it was he had one....And once again im not. putting. him. stronge.r then .Freeza. in. the. android. saga.Jeeza get it

5)Yes it is logical until i see a proof that could prove me wrong ....the argument because he is a human and thats why he is not that strong doesnt work

6)And how was Goku almost on the same spot as he was.

7)I already explained this and i never implied that ...Im gonna reapet myself again....The thing that he just wanted to help and the fact that he knew that those androids where a lot stronger then freza...And after seing how 18 kicked vegetas ass easilly,The fact that he still wanted to fight after all that means A LOT LOT...No matter if he was defeated easilly even trunks,piccolo and vegeta where defeated as easilly so he cant be around 30 k atleast he should be a lot stronger then that

8)I know even if he was at Frezas power it would still be an ididotic thing...but the fact that he wanted to help indicates that he cant be weak at all

9)And why dont you prove that trainign alone cant be as affective as with a partner

10)Maybe im wrong but as far as i remeber he wanted to fight him after he saw yamcha talking with him

-A good fight please he a child that never had a real training..and base Goku Pl is Unknown it was proven that Dabura is not a good at Pl sensing at all so Goku base could just as easilly be around his namek ssj power at that time or even weaker

__________________

T-1000

Tien wasted Vegeta with the Neo trie beam. And this is the end of the fight.

__________________

hero_764

Of course it didn't change your view at all. Your remixremix, one of the biggest Tien fanboys on the site, nothing is gonna change your view. I don't know why I even bother arguing with you :S

20-50 million? What. The. Fuck. How in the hell is it possible for him to get that high?

Krillin was knocked out by a single kick from Reacoome. He was around 10,000 at the lowest, and Reacoome was around 45,000 at the lowest, that's 4.5x difference. Even if Tien WAS at Freeza 100%'s power level Gotenks Buu was around what? 1,000 times stronger than him? And get off the legendary comment, it proves nothing.

Wow, you actually forgot what we were discussing ROFL. I was talking about Piccolo in the Buu Saga, since you said that Tien was legendary compared to him.

WELL WHY DON'T YOU FUCKING EXPLAIN HOW IT'S LOGICAL?

What the fuck?

I am like an inch away from giving up...you're just hopeless. The fact that he wanted to fight makes him a fucking retard, not stronger than SSJ Vegeta like you seem to think -_-

You seem to forget that 100% Freeza would be considered very weak in that saga, so it doesn't fucking matter.

The fact that Tien was so much weaker than Piccolo at the start of the android saga?

He never mentioned wanting to fight him.

Even if he was that weak, Namek SSJ Goku>100% Freeza lol

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Corruption RPG - Join Today!

Top 5 Villains:

1. Raditz
2. Vegeta
3. Cui
4. Frieza
5. Semi-Perfect Cell(17 absorbed)

Top 5 Heroes:

1. Piccolo
2. Nail
3. Goku
4. Yajirobe
5. Krillin

Dragon Ball/Z Power Levels

USSJed

Once again a rushed argument, so it might not be perfect...

Remix, please spell correctly and use grammar, and try to put more substanance into your argument as well(Although I would settle for you to just ditch that horrid rushed look your posts have, it makes the thread look untidy and makes you very hard to understand)

And Hero, you CONSTANTLY make assumptions and treat them as fact, kindly stop it right now.

Various

I was saying that what he said was 100% false, because he was saying that an opinon of his was fact.

Is this in referance to the Anti Cell Kikoho, if not then what is it talking about?

Rep to you, once the rep system starts working(I have trouble repping right now due to obscene lag)

On Tien's Training(And training in general)

You are the one saying Chaotzu is too weak to be useful for training. You are the one making the assumption here, so it is up to you to prove this. Not remix or myself.
Tien splits into four, they fight each other/do press ups/run with weights etc. This nifty training style is shown by Piccolo in the anime, so watch that if you want to see an example of it in action. Also, due to the fact each copy is weaker than the original, it is an excellent way to bypass this "1xgravity is obsolete" argument. Note that he could split into more than four people.

For the King Kai and Kami look out stuff, Tien training at full power against Yamcha is better than two weak Tien's training against each other, in the same way Piccolo training with an SSJ is undoubtably better than training against someone equal or weaker than him. As for the last point, perhaps one split was training with Chaotzu, or perhaps that was their warm up before Tien split. Thats easily the best point anyone has brought up sofar, but it is far from conculsive.

It's good because it gets around any power limitations for training in x1 gravity, and also gets around the decrease in your increase as you increase your power.
Look, you do not know the rate of decline for training increases. The thing is, he might increase x8 in year one, and then x7.9 in year two, then x7.8 in year three. On the other hand, he might increase by x8 in year one, and then x0.5 in year two, we have no fucking clue, which means you can not dismiss the possibility of whole level multiplier increases per year. Also, the increases we saw in the Saiyan Saga, are a much better indicator of increase per year than any assumptous statement.

The logic behind that exact situation is correct. But, that is a retarded idea of increasing your training. You would do 10,000 in the time it takes to do 5,000, or do 5,000 with a 10 ton boulder on your back, do 5,000 with one hand while lifting weights with the other, etc. Not just do more of the same thing.

Tien's statement indicates that he thinks he could have some effect on the Androids, while Chaotzu is much weaker than them and so can do nothing. You cannot attribute that to an exact power level. And as for this statement, kindly STFU,you cannot go around saying "Oh Chaotzu doesn't count because I dont think he is strong enough to do anything", its pissing me off to the level where I am tempted to neg rep you for it.

On Dr Gero, and his estimation of Goku's strength

I will say this once, and it applys to every statement like this. If need be I will use it as a mini wall so read it and do not discredit Dr Gero's statement without proof to back yourself up.

Dr Gero stated that Yamcha was stronger than even the highest rate of increase that he expected of Goku. That means he had some kind of chart, or mathematical system etc, to detirmine how strong he expected Goku to get. Keep in mind he had seen Goku go from like 100(vs RR army) to 32,000(Kaoken VS Vegeta, Dr Gero could easily interpret the Kaoken as Goku's full power and not just a technique) in like 10 years or something. So simply put, Dr Gero had a way of estimating the power level of an opponent after a period of time.

The idea is to set it between the highest and lowest possibles, as a medium level. That way we get an idea of the levels of strength the character can reach. So for example, if I said Mr Popo was 100 and increased at x3 per year, after three years he would be 2700, which would not be an exact level, but to give an idea of the sort of levels he has reached. He could be 2412 or 3281 for all I know.

On the Kikoho

They are stupidly high because they are based on your idiotic assumptions that Tien cannot reach the millions. Fact, that if Tien is only in the 10's of thousands, then his attack needs to be thousands of times stronger than him, or a pushing attack, which I notice you have made no mention of my counterargument towards.

Firstly, by you I meant everyone arguing that Tien is weak, not just Majuub. Secondly, it does not have to be a "direct beam" to inflict damage. Take Vegeta's Gesture O Doom attacks for example. No beam, no charge, opponent explodes.

By this logic Cell would have said "Oh look the dirt is flying off due to my high speed!" if it was in fact dirt.

Look at the pictures. He vibrates, there is no indication at all that he gets knocked down with shots 2-4.

Piccolo and other characters

Tien was so much weaker than Piccolo at the start of the android saga?

Says who? As I mentioned at the beginning of this post, you constantly make assumptions and treat them as fact. STOP RIGHT NOW.

Ok I thought I made this clear, Tien had Chaotzu to train with, not to mention himself. Piccolo does not get Zenkai's either, and cannot transform. And lastly, Piccolo had fused ONCE by that point, not TWICE.

Never use those arguments in the Tien-Piccolo comparison again. You are pulling shit out of your ass, and the lack of Zenkai's and transformations apply to both Tien and Piccolo so seriously, stop mentioning them.

7) Are you retarded? Because it sounds like you think that Tien(Android Saga) is stronger than SSJ Vegeta ROFL

You really think Piccolo did not put all of his power into that? I don't know what to say, it's just so damn idiotic.

I am not reading half of what Remix writes, and even I know that the Tien>SSJ Vegeta comparison is something you came up with from what Remix said. Stop putting words into his mouth.

Various

Theres no stated levels post Frieza. In that three years, everyone could have increased by 100000x their Frieza Saga PL's for all we know.

By my calculations(which I admit are incomplete, and won't be done for a few hours), Gotenks Buu could be as low as 50x Frieza's strength.

Edit: I think it would be better if all of us(including me) stuck to shorter posts and kept them more on topic. These huge posts are terrible to type and it is hard to fully pay attention throughout the whole thing...

__________________

remixremix

The answer is in brown

__________________

hero_764

Seriously? Yeah, like Remix isn't doing that as well...


Its talking about the KiKoHo that reflected Buu's attack.


-_- Why do I have to be the one to prove it? You guys are the one's assuming it does add to the training.

Just think logically. If Goku(android saga) sparred Roshi he would win in an instant, right? Even if he let Roshi win it wouldn't better his skill, just Roshi's. Same with Chiaotzu. The difference between Tien and Chiaotzu is pretty big, otherwise Chiaotzu wouldn't have been left at home while Tien went to fight the androids. Yamcha stated he was the most useless one out of everyone, but if Tien doesn't even want Chiaotzu to fight, wouldn't that make him weaker than Yamcha? And even if Chiaotzu was within maybe 20,000, it would still be a big difference. Goku's 416 compared to Roshi's 139 is enough for Roshi to know he wouldn't stand a chance.


So if he split into four people and did ten pushups with one ton of weight of each of their backs it would = doing 40 pushups with 4 tons of weight on his back?



Yeah, its not conclusive. But don't you think he would've mentioned that he could do that or something?

I.E

Yamcha: Hey Tien wanna train w/ me.

Tien: No way n00b.

Yamcha: WTF? Its better than training by yourself you fucking antisocial prick.

Tien: Fuck you dude, I can use split form.

Yamcha: (laughs) Wow, have fun talking to yourself for three years..



The only problem with basing it on the Saiyan is(like I said before...) that this was the only time in DBZ that the humans would actually train together. After that Yamcha trained alone at Bulma's house(I doubt Vegeta would train with him xD) and Krillin trained alone at Roshi's island. Tien trained alone in the mountains. Krillin and Yamcha both stopped training after the Cell Games and it is unknown whether Tien did or not(he could've just enjoyed living in the mountains). Training with Partners>>>Training with self


Yeah but it would still take longer to do a pushup with 10 tons on your back instead of 5.

Read above.


Can I get some quotes from Volume 13 about this?(once again, I lost mine..)

Anyways, I bet that Gero's spy robots would've heard Goku explaining the Kaio Ken to Krillin and Gohan, and even if he thought he gained 320x his power in 10 years(32x a year..) that would put Yamcha at above 45 fucking million that's fucking ridiculous.


What I don't fully understand about it is how come the stronger you get, the higher additive gains you get from training? If someone gained half of their power level every year, starting at 100 they would get 150 the first year. After that why would they know get 75 levels instead of 50?


That's a completely different kind of attack. You can't use that as a comparison to KiKoHo. Yes I know it can cause damage, but Cell made no mention of being hurt or wounded at all. He just seemed pissed off that he was held back by the attack, not hurt by it.


No, because characters get dirt on themselves all the time when falling into mountains and stuff. They never make mention of how dirty they are.

Namekians have never shown to regenerate skin after a scorch mark. I think if Cell were going to do that he would say something like "damn, Tien hurt me. Oh well, I can just use regeneration to replenish my skin."


I know that the anime doesn't count, but I'm pretty sure that it showed Cell getting pushed down.


Akira Toriyama? People were commenting on Piccolo's high power. Tien didn't step in say "OH YA? WELL I'M STRONGR BIZNATCH!" or have anyone comment on his power.

GUESS WHAT? YOU AND REMIXREMIX DO THE EXACT SAME THING.


Err...no, we were talking about Piccolo IN THE BUU SAGA.

Ugh...I was more comparing him to Saiyans and such who had gotten stronger than Piccolo mostly because of those things.

You shouldn't assume. -_- I told him that fighting 17 wasn't showing his strength, but his stupidity, especially since he saw Vegeta get owned. And then Remix says something like(I couldn't really understand him): no even if he did see vegeta get owned he still went to fight and that makes him strong(read his post)

That makes no sense. If everyone increased their power by that much the differences would be EXACTLY the same as in the Frieza Saga.

Wtf? How did you come up with that(unless you used incredibly low SSJ multipliers)


OMG PLEASE USE PROPER GRAMMAR. And when did I ever say that Tien was at 30 thousand? I have him around 80 thousand during the Android Saga.

But just so you shut up, I'll show you how its impossible even using the Saiyan Saga multipliers.

Comes back from King Kai's at around 30,000 ok? That still only puts him at around 11 million if you mutiply his power level by 7.2 a year, which is way too high.


I'm gonna neg rep you if you ignore what I say one more time...(1 rep power FTW xD)

Why do you think that Freeza's power level would be considered legendary to Gotenks Buu?


wtf? How was I putting words into your mouth. You're saying its logical for Tien to get to Freeza's power level without any evidence. ALL I'M DOING IS ASKING YOU TO PROVE SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF.


No I really didn't, please rephrase so I can understand cuz your grammar makes no fucking sense.


*tears hair out* Because he wanted to help he's magically stronger? WTF?! THAT PROVES NOTHING

Define weak(if you say 30 thousand you're getting neg repped).


Hi there mr. hypocrite.

I already explained why Piccolo was stronger than Tien, so good day


Read above.


There's nothing stating that humans can get a big power up either.

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Corruption RPG - Join Today!

Top 5 Villains:

1. Raditz
2. Vegeta
3. Cui
4. Frieza
5. Semi-Perfect Cell(17 absorbed)

Top 5 Heroes:

1. Piccolo
2. Nail
3. Goku
4. Yajirobe
5. Krillin

Dragon Ball/Z Power Levels

LegendarySSJ7

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hero_764

Sorry...I got a little pissed off I guess.

I apologize Remix if anything I've said has hurt you. :)

__________________
Corruption RPG - Join Today!

Top 5 Villains:

1. Raditz
2. Vegeta
3. Cui
4. Frieza
5. Semi-Perfect Cell(17 absorbed)

Top 5 Heroes:

1. Piccolo
2. Nail
3. Goku
4. Yajirobe
5. Krillin

Dragon Ball/Z Power Levels

remixremix

I dont give a damn neg rep me if you want im gonna neg rep you too
First off im not from an english speaking country i belive you could have noticed it so far but in your case its obvious that im wrong
So far i didnt see a tiny proof that could make me doubt a a bit that he is not stronger then Freeza..we have so many proofs indication that he has a high battel power but on the other side the only argument im hearing about is that he is weak without a SINGLE PROOF just thahe cant be that strong since he is a human...And yes you did put words in my mouth by saying that i have him stronger then SSj vegeta in the android saga when i said that i have him from 20-50 mill in that sag so "clean up" your eyes next time and pay more attention....And soon as you find a proof(wich you wont btw)that he is that weak Make a topic and i will be glad to discuss it again