Dark Skywalker

Pretty Much

Devilz

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Deep thought

You know, that kind of proves that he's a spambot.

Anyway, back on topic, I think that the Super Sayajin multiplier is 50x, so it'd be close, but I think 17# would win.

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Devilz

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Dark Skywalker

50X is too high

Deep thought

No offense to all of the members here, but I find it really stupid how everyone believes that the Super Sayajin multiplier decreases, just because of one scene. Seriously, that scene could be a plot-hole.

What's next, everyone going to say, on the basis that Goku was struggling with 40 tons in the Buu saga, that the stronger Saiyans get, the harder it is for them to lift heavy stuff? I know that that may be ridiculous, but that's exactly how ridiculous I find this Super Sayajin multiplier hypothesis to be.

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Devilz

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SRP76

I find it funny that people ignore the fact that Goku got healed when he first turned Super Saiyan, and try to claim that Super Saiyan is 50x base to begin with.

They go on to ignore what base Goku did against 100% Frieza.

They then go on to ignore the Kili reading.

They then go on to ignore the fact that Super Buu is NOT 125,000x Fat Buu (which is what he'd be if each Super Saiyan transformation yielded a 50x increase).

In short, nothing ever shows a 50x increase to begin with.

Deep thought

Then, what the hell is everyone basing it off of, because it makes no sense, even by DBZ standards, to make the multiplier decrease.

The scene that I'm referring to is the Yakon one, with Goku's Kiri reading.

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SRP76

Oh, and also ignoring the fact that Super Saiyans Goten and Trunks aren't 30-40x stronger than Android 18.

And Super Saiyan 2 Gohan isn't 30-40x stronger than Cell.

Deep thought

So you're saying that Goku got a Zenkai?

I doubt it, Goku didn't seem to be near death at all. I bet he could've went to Bulma's ships and be just fine for long while. Heck, after taking a nap, he might be fine again.

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SRP76

He was in no better condition than Vegeta was after the Recoome fight, or than he himself was after the Captain Ginyu fight. Or than Gohan was after the Vegeta fight. Or than Vegeta was after the Zarbon fight.

With the exception of Vegeta's fight on Earth, NONE of them were in imminent danger of dying. And they ALL got big increases.

And no matter what, Goku proved by his performance against Frieza that his base was NOT any 1/50 of his Super Saiyan power level. So, he's more powerful, no matter how it happened.

Deep thought

Vegeta could barely stand, Goku was standing perfectly fine. They all intended to go to Bulma's spaceship, and Goku was perfectly up to it. Not to mention, nobody said anything like "Goku are you sure that you are up to it?". Gohan, after the Vegeta fight, might've not even got a zenkai, there's really no evidence of that.

As for Vegeta post Zarbon fight, that's a joke to compare it to Goku's injuries, right? Vegeta was crawling on the ground and he lost consciousness, and, overall, he wasn't much better than he was on Earth.

And what are you trying to say, that Super Sayajin heals completely you when you transform into it? If so, then I don't even know what to say about that.

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SRP76

You must not have read the manga.

Goku had to be held by Piccolo. After the fight with Recoome, Vegeta was standing, all alone, watching them.

Get over the "they have to be near death" crap. It's been shown to be false repeatedly.

And it also doesn't even address the FACT that Goku showed he was far more powerful than before. No amount of denying it can change what is drawn on those panels.

Deep thought

Oh, that's it, I'm using the manga, ironically enough, to prove my point.

Let's make this simple.

Here's Vegeta injured by Recoome:



Here's Goku Injured by Freeza:



It's not hard to tell who's more injured. In addition to that, Vegeta was steadily losing consciousness and was about to fall over. Want proof?

Fine:



About the near-death thing, once again, I'm going to let the manga do the talking.



I made the images extra-large, so everyone can see the details and not argue with me about it.

So, yeah, the manga just destroyed your entire argument.

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