BurningVegeta

Thats what i thought. Who is right here? I can't put in most of my imput if Island keeps telling me i'm wrong. No offense Island...

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Island of 1,000 Condiments

Well then, I was wrong.


You win, and I apologize, Burning.

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Zer0: What Volume & Chapter is that from?

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Zer0

Volume 29 Chapter 259 Page 10.

I said that a few pages ago.

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Island of 1,000 Condiments

Uh, well, oops.


If Genjutsu attacks Chakra, then many, and I mean many, discussions need to be revisited.

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ANB

Anyone notice how Itachi explains his attacks to his opponents...? Even random people (Kurenai).

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Nikushimi

Further crushing:

After years of not reading or watching it, I admit my knowledge isn't what it used to be. However, I still know more about it than your average, run-of-the-mill noob. D;

All it takes is a "Hi, we're going to fight". And he's lost. Try rereading those instances yourself, and you'll see that there is definitely some staring down involved. ;(

I have no idea what point you're trying to make here. All I got from this is that Piccolo and Vegeta are dead meat. Srsly, you HAVE to kill Itachi immediately.

Again, you're not paying attention. Itachi is not famous for any of that, so you're dead wrong there. For starters, the only people Itachi even THINKS about playing with are those that he knows well and understands almost fully. When it comes to unknown adversaries, he's professional, delivers rapeage without a word, and it all happens instantly.

Again, stop comparing Tsukuyomi to the RoSaT. They're nothing alike. Kami did not have infinite power in the RoSaT, or in the real world, or anything. Him being a "god" in the DBZ sense isn't the same as Itachi being a "god"...in the literal sense... He determines existance in the Tsukuyomi, as well as the terms of that existance. Period.

Would not work, because Itachi controls spacial density (along with everything else). ;(

There's a difference between an educated guess and a raw assumption.

Strength does not indicate heat resistance. And no, Goku did not survive lava. I have an idea of what you might be referencing, but at LEAST in that case, you're wrong. And again, Amaterasu's execution is unknown; it is not necessarily a blast.

Vegeto was turned into candy, and could still move around. Thus, he can survive being disemboweled repeatedly for 72 hours? Uh, no. That makes no sense. Vegeto is no more resistant to hellish agony than the next chump. Keep in mind that a function of Genjutsu is control over the senses, which implies that Itachi should be able to even amplify the pain Vegeto feels.

I fail to see the humor in this. If this is your way of admitting defeat, then whatever- I won't question it.






All of that is worth less than nothing in the face of Genjutsu, Tsukuyomi in particular.

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Island of 1,000 Condiments

Nikushimi, read that.


The argument is basically over, since these characters have no Chakra.

The Scan explains that Genjutsu works by controlling Chakra in an opponent's mind. Therefore, if you have no Chakra, you cannot be affected by Genjutsu. All Naruto characters have Chakra, therefore, are affected by Genjutsu. DB/Z/GT characters have no Chakra, nor do many characters from previous discussions, such as Isley, Mewtwo, Lucario, Ganondorf, Toguro, etc.

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ANB

Wait Island! Let me slay JC first (I'll edit this, this is just to get attention)!!!

"Again, you're not paying attention. Itachi is not famous for any of that, so you're dead wrong there. For starters, the only people Itachi even THINKS about playing with are those that he knows well and understands almost fully. When it comes to unknown adversaries, he's professional, delivers rapeage without a word, and it all happens instantly."

Stare down, ROFL: Naruto Manga Returns
"Playing" with Kurenai: Naruto Manga Returns
Naruto Manga Returns
"Taunting" Sasugay: Naruto Manga Returns
Naruto Manga Returns
Justifying his actions: Naruto Manga Returns

^I think from this we can conclude Itachi is indeed self-righteous, supercillious, arrogant and playful with his opponents. So...DBZ is bland?



"Again, stop comparing Tsukuyomi to the RoSaT. They're nothing alike. Kami did not have infinite power in the RoSaT, or in the real world, or anything. Him being a "god" in the DBZ sense isn't the same as Itachi being a "god"...in the literal sense... He determines existance in the Tsukuyomi, as well as the terms of that existance. Period."

King Yemma in DBZ determined who goes to Heavan and hell without being defeated for millenia. Likewise, the Gods of the Earth created the ROSAT and yet the characters are shown to destroy it. They ARE similar. That's just narrow-mindedness on your part (I'm not saying their even 50% the same either, hmph).

"Strength does not indicate heat resistance. And no, Goku did not survive lava. I have an idea of what you might be referencing, but at LEAST in that case, you're wrong. And again, Amaterasu's execution is unknown; it is not necessarily a blast."

ONCE AGAIN...gravity...??? And ask anyone in the DBZ section if Goku survived lava.

"Vegeto was turned into candy, and could still move around. Thus, he can survive being disemboweled repeatedly for 72 hours? Uh, no. That makes no sense. Vegeto is no more resistant to hellish agony than the next chump. Keep in mind that a function of Genjutsu is control over the senses, which implies that Itachi should be able to even amplify the pain Vegeto feels"



What you don't get is that no matter how much pain Itachi dishes out he cannot. Harm. Vegerot. He's waaay out of his league. 300g's is no joke. Just like being able to rape someone in their mind is no joke :P

"I fail to see the humor in this. If this is your way of admitting defeat, then whatever- I won't question it."

Nothing Itachi does would be too much for Vegerot, even changing something's mass. Island started a thread where SS2 Vegeto and I confirmed how Cell could destroy the sun to destroy an entire galaxy. And AGAIN (*SIIIIIIIGH*) Post-Cell-DBZ characters can fire their lazers (literally!) to break dimensional barriers (wether or not you think there is similarity between Tsukuyomi and ROSAT or not).

Honestly, you are a good opponent. Peace out nigga, it was fun tho'.

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Nikushimi

That's just getting technical. Chakra and Ki are basically energy, and they work in a similar fashion. If you have a neutral match between the characters from different series, and keep them with their displayed or stated power and skills, then the fight can continue being discussed. And anyway, in DBZ, no Ki means no life, while in Naruto, the same can be said for chakra. So...a fight isn't possible in a world that isn't neutral. That said, if you want to really get technical, there's a number of possibilities. But if we're truly measuring power vs. power, ability vs. ability, something like this is negligible. I've been wanting to say this for a while, but I wasn't sure how it'd be received. At this point, though, I really don't care. :/

But I just know this is gonna open up a whole new can of worms...


EDIT: Yes, indeed, "slay" me. D:

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Super Cool

if vegeto closes his eyes he can win.(doubt that) If not he's doomed. The only DBZ characters that will survive Tsukoyomi(that attacks rock in Naruto Ultimate Ninja 2 BTW) are 16 and 8 since they're completely robotic.

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JAIF

Chakra = a person's energy.

Even real life people have chakra.

Chakra is just... a word, describing energy.

This changes nothing.

It still isn't determined whether Itachi can surpass the limit of his own strenght within the realm of Tsukuyomi, since the only people he has used it on were much weaker than himself. He may be unable to contain and restrain in the illusionary world a being possessing massive amounts of chakra, Vegito being an example. Until this issue is clarified, any discussion on this subject consists of pure speculation.

As it stands now, the only limit to Tsukuymi is Itachi's amount of chakra. By my calculations, since using Tsukuyomi for three days straight and then for an additional day, and then using Amaterasu drained him off to the point of deactivating even the regular Sharingan (which he keeps on all the time, meaning the drain in chakra is so insignificant it is instantly replenished), he should be able to keep on the illusion for six days straight, meaning six days of torture. Of course, we have no evidence as to whether the type of torture he submits his opponents two affects the chakra drain, so again, any discussion here is speculation.

Theoretically, someone with great control over his senses and the corresponding physical ability could be able to resist being tortured for that amount of time. However, we are not sure how exactly Tsukuyomi takes effect, since even though the pain and the wounds are illusionary, even after the illusion breaks they still take effect. So... again, it's pretty much pure assumptions.

As far as the Amaterasu issue is concerned. Unlike Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu produces externalized results. Someone who is a billion times faster than Itachi could evade the attack even from point-blank, if he had... any kind of idea what was coming at him. Then again, DBZ characters have absolutely no inherent knowledge of Naruto techniques, so Itachi could easily trick the enemy with a Kage Bunshin, have him... talk, or something, then just vanish with Shunshin no Jutsu and reappear behind him, using Amaterasu.

Amaterasu's heat is debatable - the databooks state that it approaches the heat of the sun, but the sun's temperature fluctuates wildly. Also, if you think of applying even a fraction of real-world logic to this, which is required for any crossover matchup to... make sense, do you have any idea what kind of effect bringing the temperature of the sun, even for an instant, even for such a contained impact, would have? It would basically be the heat of a nuclear explosion's core or higher, which would incinerate... everything nearby, evaporate it completely, regardless of the point of impact.

But whatever. Everyone seems stuck to their own opinions. If you fail to realize that until further information is revealed, this discussion will only consist of a series of countless speculations, then I've just wasted my time for nothing.

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Island of 1,000 Condiments

Edit - Dion: Chakra is more of spiritual essence, not energy itself.


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Both of you are wrong in two points.

• Chakra is not Ki. Flat-out: No.
• You cannot compare Tsukuyomi to the Time Chamber.

In both matters, the subjects are completely different, only sharing loose fundemental basics.

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Blazing Hyuuga

But then wouldn't that also mean that Vegito can just power us his Ki/Chakra so throw the Genjutsu off ( Similar as to what Naruto did in the crow Genjutsu but opposite). I know it's not just any genjutsu but even Tsukiomyi would be throw off by that leval of Ki.

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