Rayne-Mayne

Okay, once again i see alot of people with some weird ideas.
What
we know about potara fusion is that it is permanent. As far as it
being compared to the dance, we are only told by elder kai that it is
better. He doesnt say stronger, he doesnt even begin to hint to
one form or the other fusion being stronger then the other type.
Also, alot of you guys seem to take heart to some vague comment about
being rivals somehow making a difference. We dont know if thats
true or not, and we dont know if it is part of the dance either.
Goten and Trunks are rivals, Goku and Vegeta are rivals, so the whole
comment means diddly squat since its so vague and unclear neither side
can really use it as solid proof.

The main idea on
why Potara is stronger is the notion that the user doesnt have to lower
his pl in order to achieve fusion. This doesnt change anything,
as i will show you why the only thing that matters in either fusion is
the users in it, and not the PL when committing the dance.
To explain this i need to go a little more indepth.

Firstly,
we know that as long as you fuse, it doesnt matter WHAT form you are
in, the outcome is still the same. Goten + Trunks in base = the
same gotenks that is achieved from ssj fusion. Same pl's.
That is strike 1 for current pl not making any difference.
Second,
if you try and use the idea of it all being about how much energy is
being supressed, you are left with another inconsitency. The gap
between Trunks and Goten is small, but noticable. At base, trunks
has to supress, say 5 of his energy, to fuse with goten. But, as we know that ssj is a multiplier, that makes the gap between Trunks and Goten larger every level of ssj. That is to say that Trunks has to supress more
of his power when they fuse in ssj form, then he does in base
form. It is not trunks supresses 5 energy each time. 5
represents the gap between trunks and goten, and since the gap gets
larger so also does the number.Now, i get that it
may be worded a little cryptically, but im sure its simple to
understand. You simply cannot rely on the idea of power
supression playing any role in the dance fusion, because it wouldnt
work.
So, keeping in mind with that logic, we are left
with the only TRUE stated fact, that the potara fusion is better.
Better, in the sense in doesnt have a time limit. Nowhere is it
stated/shown/implied that it is stronger

Super Cool

The potara is better stated in the manga. To me it makes the fused warrior stronger than if they used the fusion.

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Tuna2

I simply get the notion that the Elder Kai was calling the metamorese fusion lame when compared to the Potaru fusion. From his actions, he seemed to downgrade that type of fusion for more than just a time limit. Not only that but are you suggesting that Base Vegeta>SSJ3 Trunks. If Base Gogeta>SSJ3 Gotenks then Base Vegeta>SSJ3 Trunks. That seems rather ridiculous in my opinion unless the potara gives some sort of boost.

Zer0

Potora Fusion being better is stated, but better doesn't always mean stronger. The rivalry boost, whether it exists for both fusions and if it even gives an increase is debatable.

Overall this is just a back and forth arguement when talking about which is the stronger Fusion.

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SRP76

Nope. Gotenks + Trunks in base = Gotenks in base. He then transforms to whatever form he wants. He can go to Super Saiyan 3 instantly, but he isn't exclusively in that form. He transforms into it, and will go back to base when he can't maintain the energy any longer.

Another error. 5% of ANY number is still 5%. Period. He's supressing the same percentage of his power. And that's what a "multiple" is: a percentage added, not a raw number added. That would be "addition".What are you talking about? Nobody said base Gogeta > Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks. And only anime people try to claim that base Vegito > Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks.

The comparison is Super Saiyan Gogeta or Vegito being > Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks.

Tuna2

I simply get the impression that Base Vegito is slightly stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks from my own multiplier but I guess people have different opinions on Base Vegito's power. Anyways, you're probably right, I should've used SSJ as an example. Still, same issue, SSJ Vegeta vs. SSJ3 Trunks.

Devilz

Base Goten + Base Trunks * Fusion Dance = Base Gotenks
It doesn't work that way. Unless you think Gotenks gets like a 30x multiplier going from SSJ to SSJ3

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SRP76

There is no Super Saiyan 3 Trunks.

And even if there were, he'd be a poser. Gotenks doesn't go through Super Saiyan 2, so he misses out on a multiplier. Trunks would suffer the same thing.

And even with all that, Gotenks must have a pretty poor Super Saiyan 3 multiplier, as it is: Super Saiyan Gotenks got worked by Super Buu, but not obliterated with one shot. We see that someone only 30% stronger can destroy an opponent with a gesture. So, Super Buu can't be "many times" stronger than Super Saiyan Gotenks.

Then, when he goes Super Saiyan 3, Gotenks still only demonstrates a small advantage over Buu. So, going from Super Saiyan to Super Saiyan 3 doesn't multiply his power by very much. It probably only doubles his power. Same thing would happen to Trunks or Goten.

Now, are Vegeta and Goku twice as strong as Trunks and Goten? Hell yes, and a lot more.

Cableguy15

You have no proof at all to back that up......

I'm going to explain why I think Vegito is stronger using some numbers....

Ok, let's hypothetically say that Base vegito is equal to SSJ3 Gotenks (Not necesarily true, but very believable in my opinion) So......

Goten=5

Trunks (Supressed)=5

Now, for the hell of it, let's say Vegeta and Goku are 5x stronger than their sons, which is a pretty big difference already......

Goku (Supressed)= 25

Vegeta= 25

Now, for the fusion, I like to multiply by 100x.... The number doesn't really matter since they both will have the same multiplier in this case....

Gotenks= 500

Gogeta= 2500

*** Now here is where the key difference comes in..... That Gogeta is a MSSJ, and Gotenks is not. This, in my recently changed opinion would make Gogeta's multiplier lower than Gotenks'....... This is a key difference, not to mention Gotenks STILL gets another transformation left afterwards....

SSJ Gotenks= 3,750

SSJ Gogeta= 12,500

***Some people might not really agree with that, but the difference between their multipliers is very small anyway. Now multiply SSJ Gotenks power, which I like to believe is x5.....

SSJ3 Gotenks= 18,750

Some may not agree with that, but I truely think the only way SSJ Gogeta can ever be stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks, who is weaker than Vegito in my opinion, is if his base form were stronger than SSJ Gotenks, which I think is just not true.

And for those who don't agree that vegito is around SSJ3 Gogeta...... You must think he has a huge multiplier....

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Cableguy's Power Levels: Saiyan Saga

Cableguy's Power Levels: Namek

Cableguy's Power Levels: Freeza Saga

Zer0

Gotenkusu is a Mastererd Super Saiya-jin. Personally becoming a Mastered Super Saiya-jin would result in a higher multiplier but whatever. >_>

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Devilz

Assuming that both Trunks and Goten are MSSJs, which is open for discussion.
5x is a huge multiplier, considering you are also using 5x for SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games). I believe it should be higher, but that is for another topic

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SRP76

Really?

According to the manga, Trunks can't handle 150G. Can NOT. He has to struggle just to walk.

Goku not only walked, but trained in 100G on the way to Namek. BEFORE getting his powerup after the Ginyu fight. For the sake of Goku-hating, we'll say that zenkai only gave him a 50% increase.

That would mean that, while fighting Frieza, Goku could have handled 150G enough to actually train in it. That puts him above Trunks.

...and then he trained for a year plus on Yardrat, then trained with Piccolo and Gohan for 3 years....

But, for the sake of some Trunks-loving, I'll say that Trunks is equal to THAT, much-more-powerful Goku.

So...

After that point, Goku trained for a year in the Time Chamber, which showed him increasing from below the Androids to above Cell stage two.

Then, he had 7 more years of training under King Kai.

You really think he only doubled his power, after all that?[lol]

And let's not forget little Goten:

Goten was NO MATCH for Gohan. Gohan wasn't even fighting (forget fighting "seriously"), and Goten was rushing like he had something to prove (which he did). Gohan didn't even fight back, just dodging and blocking. Goten says, "I couldn't even hit you once!". He got owned. Couldn't even touch "Big Brother".

Gohan's Cell Games power level was stated to be greater than his Buu saga power level. So, Cell Games Gohan > Buu saga Gohan > (to a large degree)Goten.

Goku is stated to be "stronger than Gohan was against Cell".

Goku > cell games Gohan > Buu saga Gohan > Goten. With a large gap between each one.

A lot more than twice their power.

Devilz

EDIT: Nevermind

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Rayne-Mayne

That
is what i meant to say, even if i worded it incorrectly. Yes,
when they fuse from base gotenks starts off base, but what i am saying
is that he has the same pl as gotenks when formed through ssj.
They are the same person. If Base fused gotenks went ssj, he
would be = to ssj fused ssjgotenks. Sorry for your
misunderstanding.
You dont get the ratio. Let me use different numbers.
Goten has a pl of 10, Trunks, 12. In order for them to fuse in base, trunks drops 2 and they fuse.
Now,
when they transform ssj (lets just say ssj multiplies by 10 for easy
math) we have a goten with 100, and trunks with 120. In order for
them to fuse NOW, trunks has to supress alot more power, 20, as opposed
to 2. So we see that supression cant be used to explain the power
of fusion, because it is inconsistent and dependent on the level
of ssj currently being used.

SRP76

2/12 = 20/120. He's supressing 1-2/3% of his power, in both cases. The same percentage. The raw number does not matter.

Trunks = 12
Goten = 10
Gotenks = (10+10) x 50 = 1,000

Super Saiyan Trunks = 120
Super Saiyan Goten = 100
Super Saiyan Gotenks = (100+100) x 50 = 10,000

Is 10,000/1,000 the same as 120/12? Yes. Is 1,000/1,000 the same as 100/10? Yes. The Super Saiyan multiplier has not been compromised.

If each form is supressing the same percentage (which they are), everything remains equal.

So, where's the inconsistency?