deckzone3000

Just difference of opinions on Goten and Trunks' power levels then.

And being skilled, durable, intelligent and experienced doesn't have anything to do with who's stronger than who.

1.33x is not amazing. Frieza's increases between forms, saiyan's near-death power ups, any of the super saiyan transformations, any of the fusions, etc. all are more than 1.33x
Try to cut back on the "hope you're not serious" and "just ridiculous" comments. :)

They couldn't really be equal though. Goku would have to lower his power to match Vegeta for the fusion dance.

__________________
Gohan during the cell games is a KID!
Gohan during the buu saga is a TEEN!

SRP76

Majin Vegeta = Goku. So, if Goku has to surpress his power down to match Vegeta, then the difference would equal whatever the power increase from Babidi's magic was.

Question is, how much is that? I don't believe the difference is all that substantial. That's why I think Vegito is only a little stronger than Gogeta, not "multiple times stronger".

Majuub

Being more skilled, durable and intelligent doesn't make you stronger. Put Goten at the same level of power than Goku, make them fight, you'll se who'll win(Skills) Exemple: Trunks vs Goten
If your opponent can't take damage but you can, take him down quickly, if 1 hit of your ennemy is like he hitted you 10x then you'll be down for the count in a matter of minutes and if you're tiring too fast, you won't last long. (Endurance) Exemple: Chibi Buu vs Goku
Piccolo, period (Intelligence)
The difference in power between Vegeta and Kiwi was 1,33x, you see what happenend, the difference in power between Vegeto and Chou Buu could have been that large, the gap in power between Chou Gohan and Shin Buu could also have been that large. Vegeto and Gogeta are both fusion from the same beings, it's like to say that, if SSJ2 Goku was 1,33x stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta it's not enormous.
Sorry, I was a little harsh, really sorry. SSJ Vegeto and SSJ Gogeta are made from the same beings, the only difference is the method used to create them, I don't see why the potaras would be 3x stronger. I don't know if the rivalry boost is really true, but it seems it is, if so, why wouldn't Gogeta has it too? Search in the manga, they never said the potara fusion was stronger, they said it was superior, it's completely different. Exemple: We both have computer of the same power, mine can turn on for hours without over-heating but you must turn-off yours otherwise it will overheat if you let it turn on for 30 minutes. Can we say that I don't have a more powerful but superior computer than yours?
Base Vegeta and base Goku are about equal, SSJ Vegeta and Goku are also about equal, SSJ2 Goku>=SSJ2 Vegeta, only in SSJ3 does Goku completely outclasses Vegeta. Goku would have to lower his power a little, we wouldn't see the difference when they're fused since they're like 10x stronger.

__________________

Devilz

Trunks is stronger than Goten anyway.
Considering their gap in the Cell Games was much greater than that (as SSJs) I guess 1.33x isn't that enormous (although Goku would still dominate Vegeta)

__________________

Majuub

In terms of raw power he is a little stronger, he is a little mor skilled and he seems much smarter than Goten. If Goten was more skilled, intelligent and durable than Trunks, it would be enough to close the gap and even give Goten the edge.
You do know that, it takes only a 1,33x difference to vaporize your opponent without a single effort? When SSJ2 Goku was fighting SSJ2 Majin Vegeta, he wasn't dominating the fight at all, they were dead even.

__________________

FierceGamer

^^Yeah, it was stated that Vegeta was 1.33X stronger than Kui, and he only put a pathetic resistance before he was wiped out. I'd also say Gohan was 1.33X stronger than Buu from the way he was slapping him around. To get past 1.33X someone's strength is getting to be ridiculously stronger than they are. I'm talking about a mismatch like the one between Super Gogeta and Janemba or Goku and most of the Ginyu force (when they fought). It absolutely does. When the Saiyans came to earth, Goku was no match for Vegeta. He used everything he had and though Vegeta was much, much stronger than him, he made Vegeta wish he never set foot on earth. I'm not even just talking about using the Kaio-Ken to multiply his power, I'm also talking about the spirit bomb, that fact that he used the Kaio-Ken so judiciously because he knew it could kill him, and the fact that he knew exactly what to do when Vegeta snapped and tried to vaporize the earth. Goku was weaker, but he, not only kept himself in the fight, but actually caused Vegeta (more than 1.33X stronger) hellish pain, because of his experience. I'm sure that if you gave Gohan (or pretty much anyone else at the time) those same techniques and Goku's strength, he would have gotten thrashed just as badly as Goku did without laying a hand on Vegeta. Of course the pure strength could be just too much, like when Gohan transformed into a great ape and just sat on Vegeta, lol, but Gohan just wouldn't know what to do in Goku's situation. It is possible to beat someone who's stronger than you, so intelligence, skill, and experience definitely do matter. Also, about Goku having to lower his power to match Vegeta for the fusion dance: IMO, at base form, the difference in their power is negligible. Only at SS3 does Goku really outshine Vegeta. I guess there's no "proof" that Gogeta is as strong as Vegetto, but the way he completely outclassed Janemba makes me pretty confident that he could at least make Vegetto have to watch his back, if such a match-up were possible. Sorry to spend so long on this point, but it's just that this is really why I love DBZ, because when Goku goes up against someone stronger than him, we all know he's been there before and that he's gonna do some damage.

__________________
One day Chuck Norris walked down the street with a massive erection ... there were no survivors.

Broly

Another good example of that is Goku [base] vs. Freeza. He actually hit Freeza with the Spirit Bomb! Impressive for a low-level. Anyway...

Um, I'd have to disagree with you on Gogeta's level. I believe he's between Ultimate Gohan and Super Buutenks. He's close to Vegetto's power, but not that close.

__________________


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wS5xOZ7Rq8
Silence is golden, ducktape is silver, a bullet is bronze.

Majuub

If he's between them he isn't close at all. Vegeto was already light years ahead of Buu (Chou Gohan absorbed) so if Gogeta was beween Chou Buu and Buu(Gotenks absorbed) he wouldn't be close to Vegeto.
The power difference between Chou Buu and Buu(Gotenks absorbed) is considerable, Chou Buu is at most 1,5x stronger than Buu (Gotenks absorbed). Considering Chou Gohan being 1,33x stronger than Shin Buu and about 1,3x stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. Shin Buu losses Gotenks's power than adds Gohan's to close the gap and go even further. It's like to put SSJ3 Gotenks against Chou Gohan, Gotenks would get seriously owned but Chou Gohan would have to watch his back.

__________________

Devilz

Yeah of course. However I was referring to SSJ2 Vegeta, not Majin.

__________________

FierceGamer

Another one would be Goku VS Cell. Even though Cell wasn't using his full power, I think the power he was using would have been enough to overwhelm most fighters of Goku's strength. I think it was also stated by someone at the tournament that Cell was just a little faster than Goku, too. Yet they fought evenly and then Goku scared the crap out of everyone with his Instant Transmission-Kamehameha Combo. For some reason, this was also, IMO, the best fight scene to watch in the anime. It was a furious, desperate struggle on both sides. One of my favorite DBZ moments. Also, your assessment of Gogeta, for all we know could be right. I wish there were more chances to see him in action. I just don't think Gohan, or even Super Buutenks could have done to Janemba what Gogeta did. They both would have beaten him, no doubt, but what Gogeta did was amazing. To full on punch someone in the face and have then not flinch denotes an immense difference in power, even by DBZ standards. Even Super Vegetto flinched when Super Buuhan attacked and we all know what a one-sided fight that was. I think Gogeta was at the very least 3X stronger than Janemba to not flinch. I put Janemba's strength in the neighborhood of Super Buu, give or take. Again that's my conservative estimate of his power and it puts him stronger than Super Buuhan. IMO, it's not hard to imagine him being strong enough to thrash Super Buuhan as badly and Vegetto did.

__________________
One day Chuck Norris walked down the street with a massive erection ... there were no survivors.

Devilz

I put Janemba in the neighborhood of SSJ Gotenks (post rosat). Putting him around Super Buu would imply that he is 4x stronger than SSJ3 Goku, which was certainly not the case.

__________________

FierceGamer

SS Gotenks is stronger than SS3 Goku, but not by that much. At the very most, Gotenks is 1.15X stronger than Goku, even post rosat. There's no way he'd be able to give Goku the same kind of beating he got from Janemba. Gotenks, though he would eventually beat Goku either into submission,
or to death, would probably be at least bruised and bloody by the end
of the fight. From the way Janemba absolutely wrecked Goku and Vegeta while taking barely any damage himself, it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to imagine him being many times stronger than them, certainly much stronger than SS Gotenks. Goku left the fight with Janemba, cut, bleeding, and running scared. The only other fighter I've seen Goku afraid to confront was Super Buu. Majin Buu's power is comparable to SS3 Goku and SS Gotenks and when he fought Majin Vegeta, Vegeta gave him an amazing fight, got some good punches in, even blasted a hole through him, and then finally lost. When SS2 Vegeta stepped up to Janemba, he got absolutely mauled. Maybe Janemba's not quite as strong as Super Buu, but I think it's pretty clear that he's closer to Super Buu than he is to SS Gotenks (post rosat).

__________________
One day Chuck Norris walked down the street with a massive erection ... there were no survivors.

Majuub

That wasn't near Buu's full power, the fight turned completely one sided once Buu was really taking Vegeta seriously, he got angry and then Vegeta didn't stand a chance, only when he is angry does his true power unleashes.

__________________

FierceGamer

That's true, I guess. We don't know how seriously Janemba was taking the fight with Vegeta and it only took one attack for Janemba to end the fight, while Buu hit Vegeta with an explosive wave, tied him up, and beat him relentlessly. (He was pretty pissed when he did all this, so we can assume he's close to full power) Even after all that, Vegeta was able to do serious damage to Buu with his suicide attack. Vegeta's fight with Janemba was a lot shorter and he barely, if at all, injured him, so it's pretty much shown that Janemba is much stronger than Majin Buu. This was my original point, that Janemba's power is far beyond the Majin Buu - SS3 Goku - SS Gotenks range. He's up there with Super Buu. This was all part of my other point, that Gogeta pwned Janemba, therefore he would pwn Super Buu.

__________________
One day Chuck Norris walked down the street with a massive erection ... there were no survivors.

Devilz

And I don't think Janemba was even 2x stronger than Goku. Where Super Buu was like 4x stronger. Putting Janemba closer to SSJ Gotenks.

__________________