SaiyajinPerfection

I totally agree with you.

A lot of people often think that transformations are set PLs, this is anything but true. You're PL while transformed depends completely on your base power, and it is possible for someone to have a base power that matches someone else's SSj PL. A perfect example, Vegetto could pawn both SSj3 Goku and SSj3 Gotenks, and he was only SSj.

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Rayne-Mayne

Okay so I see alot of completely misguided ideas that are consistent with like, everyone on the forum...


As some of you have said, it IS stated that "super gotenks" is slightly stronger then ssj3 goku.
What
you all fail to realize is that Super gotenks doesnt refer to SSJ
gotenks. Gotenks in the manga is only referred to as "super
gotenks" while in the ssj3 form. ssj1 gotenks is NOT called super
gotenks. Gotenks calls himself 'super' only after achieving
ssj3. As such, we get ssj3 gotenks > ssj3 goku, by a slight
amount. Going along with this idea we have that All forms of
gotenks are just slightly stronger then goku's

Tuna2

Goku talking to Piccolo after his fight with Fat Buu but before his departue to the Otherworld, comparing his SSJ3 state to Gotenks' power (pre rosat, without SSJ3 training), "I told him (Fat Buu) a warrior stronger than me would fight him and he seemed pleased." In other words, SSJ Gotenks (Pre-rosat)>SSJ3Goku.

Zer0

Nobody fails to realize that. Many people have pointed that out before myself included.

The flaw in your analysis would be that Gokuu would have been sending Super Saiya-jin Gotenkusu on a suicide mission had he been only slightly stronger than Gokuu at Super Saiya-jin 2 prior to entering the Room of Spirit and Time. Gokuu was confident that Super Saiya-jin Gotenkusu could defeat Majin Buu. Super Saiya-jin 3 Gotenkusu was stronger than Shin Buu. Had the difference been that small between SSj3 Gotenkusu and SSj3 Gokuu, he wouldn't have admitted he couldn't defeat Shin Buu.

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SRP76

That's what he told Piccolo. He actually didn't tell Buu anything like that.

He also told Piccolo that he couldn't beat Buu, and that turned out to be a lie, too.

Zer0

More like a story change. What most people fail to realize is that Akira Toriyama intended to end the Buu Arc with Gohan the hero defeating Shin Buu. Changes had to be made so Gokuu could be made the hero again, like him "lying" about what he was actually capable of.

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SRP76

We have an ending, and we have to go by it. We can't just throw established chapters out, just because they weren't intended.

Zer0

I didn't say we should throw out established chapters. I was only saying Toriyama didn't plan the lie. It was the story change that created lie.

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Broly

SSj3 Goku is much weaker than SSj3 Gotenks. Goku said he didn't even know if he could beat Fat Buu, yet a much stronger entity of Buu, Shin Buu, combats SSj3 Gotenks proving they're levels above Goku.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wS5xOZ7Rq8
Silence is golden, ducktape is silver, a bullet is bronze.

SRP76

Goku said "I actually could have beaten the fat one with Super Saiyan 3 when I first met him".

Goku can beat Fat Buu.

Now, I've seen some people claim that Super Buu is "only a little" stronger than Fat Buu. "Only a little" stronger than the guy that Goku could have beaten.

I'm not one of those people, though. But they are out there, and posting....

Zer0

Really? Where are they?

Anyways shouldn't this topic be locked? The original question has been answered many times already. Were're just argueing now about semi off-topic things.

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SRP76

I've seen it claimed at tv.com, and at the funimation forums. Can't remember if I've seen it here, though.

A lot of the other cross-posters can remember hearing people say that, too.

Rayne-Mayne

ssj3
gotenks ISNT stronger then super buu. I can go into detail if you
would like, but its just not true. Super buu SAYS he was toying
around with gotenks while waiting for gohan. Straight up 100%
fact. Theres more proof but i feel the fact super buu comes right
out and says he wasnt trying is solid enough.
That in mind,
we know that neither goku nor gotenks stood a chance vs super
buu. Not even in ssj3. While i do agree that sending a ssj
gotenks vs fat buu wouldnt work out very well, it doesnt matter.
Goku didnt know how strong gotenks would be. Goku was setting
gotenks up before he had even met him, so whether or not the plan was
suicide doesnt matter, as goku didnt know. Goku admitted later to
being able to beat fat buu, so, he must have thought Gotenks would have
been more powerful then him.
Also, goku didnt send ssj
gotenks off to fight any of the buu's. He had prepared them with
the fusion dance, but ran out of time. So we dont know if goku
would have intervened and stopped him from fighting because he was too
weak. Its speculation to say what would have happend if goku was
around when gotenks first fused.

Devilz

SSJ3 Gotenks was also toying (in a way). Then when he got serious he nearly killed Super Buu. If Super Buu was "toying" he would not let that happen.

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SRP76

True.

Oh, and I wonder why nobody points out that Gohan didn't show his power until AFTER Buu's fight with Gotenks was over. The little momentary "frustration" showing wasn't anything near the complete power, and it wouldn't have worried Buu a bit. He didn't have anything anywhere near Gotenks until after the fight.

So, Buu was lying. Gotenks just whipped him.