"Buff" Buu vs. Super Buu (Piccolo Prime)

Haxafax · 10-06-2007

Who would win? We don't really see much of either fighting-wise, but who's stronger?

Super Cool · 10-06-2007

I'm sure Super buu(piccolo prime) is really weak because goku was so confident and buu was really scared. I think Buff Buu is really strong because it's supposed to be the power of that strong supreme kai(kinda looked like Android 16)

Devilz · 10-06-2007

Buff Buu was stated to be stronger than Super Buu.
Piccolo Buu is hardly any stronger than Super Buu.
If Buff Buu is even 1% stronger than Super Buu, I think he should win.

**Majuub** · 10-06-2007

Now that's something really interesting.
Buff Buu is Kid Buu when he absorbed South Kaioshin, but the power of South Kaioshin musn't be that great, here is why:
East Kaioshin was confident in Gohan's power, he said that none of the Kaioshins were POWERFUL enough to pull out the Z sword, an SSJ2 Gohan was enough to pull it out. What can we assume? That the power of the South Kai was weaker than the power of an SSJ2 Gohan.
We saw what an SSJ2 was to Kid Buu, when he was fighting SSJ2 Vegeta who was clearly stronger than the SSJ2 Gohan who pulled out the Z sword, an SSJ2 was almost nothing to Kid Buu, so what would the power of Buff Buu is?? Not far more powerful than Kid Buu's power.
We can assume that the South Kaioshin was at least on equal standing with Piccolo, so it's a toss-up. At best, Piccolo Buu is as strong as Buff Buu but he can't be stronger.

warcrack · 10-06-2007

The only information about Buff Buu that we have is that he is stronger than Super Buu: in the manga, when Super Buu was reverting back to Kid Buu, he first became Buff Buu. As he transformed, Goku commented nervously that his chi was getting bigger.
When Super Buu (Gotenks absorbed) reverted back to Super Buu (Piccolo absorbed), Goku stated that he was now weak enough for Ultimate Gohan to easily beat him. So while Piccolo Buu was stronger, it was by a miniscule margin.
I personally think that there is too little information regarding the two to make a solid conclusion, but I guess if I had to, I'd put it at Piccolo Buu, since he is more intelligent and could probably outsmart Buff Buu. Goku's nervous tone of voice regarding Buff Buu's increased chi may have simply stemmed from his surprise at the transformation and his fear that he now had to fight someone stronger than Super Buu, so the actual power increase may have not been much. I still think that Buff Buu is stronger than Piccolo Buu however, but not by anything more than 1.2x.

Edit: I feel stupid having said that Piccolo Buu would win. Buff Buu takes this. His increase was noticable enough to frighten Goku and Vegeta, and a Piccolo-sized increase wouldn't have done that.

ANB · 10-07-2007

This is even closer than Base Zarbon vs. Vegeta (Around 1.09).

Quote:

Originally Posted by warcrack

When Super Buu (Gotenks absorbed) reverted back to Super Buu (Piccolo absorbed), Goku stated that he was now weak enough for Ultimate Gohan to easily beat him. So while Piccolo Buu was stronger, it was by a miniscule margin.

Umm...Your saying the difference between Buff Buu and Super Buu is less than 1...even if Piccolo trained he'd be no higher than 6 billion or so. A number that would be zilch when factoring titans well into the XX billions.

**Darkprince410** · 10-07-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majuub666

Now that's something really interesting.

Buff Buu is Kid Buu when he absorbed South Kaioshin, but the power of South Kaioshin musn't be that great, here is why:

East Kaioshin was confident in Gohan's power, he said that none of the Kaioshins were POWERFUL enough to pull out the Z sword, an SSJ2 Gohan was enough to pull it out. What can we assume? That the power of the South Kai was weaker than the power of an SSJ2 Gohan.

We saw what an SSJ2 was to Kid Buu, when he was fighting SSJ2 Vegeta who was clearly stronger than the SSJ2 Gohan who pulled out the Z sword, an SSJ2 was almost nothing to Kid Buu, so what would the power of Buff Buu is?? Not far more powerful than Kid Buu's power.

We can assume that the South Kaioshin was at least on equal standing with Piccolo, so it's a toss-up. At best, Piccolo Buu is as strong as Buff Buu but he can't be stronger.

You're somewhat mistaken with the context of how East Kaioushin-sama describes the legend of the Zed Sword. You, like so many people I've seen before, believe that what he was saying was that every Kaioushin-sama has tried to draw it out and has failed, but going by how he worded it, what he said was that every Kaioushin-sama that has tried it has failed. As such, we can't assume that he ever tried to remove it, thus we don't have an accurate assessment of his power.

However, we can infer that his power was immense (I'm willing to gamble that he was stronger than Chibi Buu), because Buu opted to absorb him rather than kill him outright, and I believe that it was either just Buu didn't want to fight him knowing that he'd lose (even an animal driven by instinct will know when he absolutely can't win a fight), or that he tried fighting South Kaioushin-sama but simply wasn't able to beat him.

FierceGamer · 10-09-2007

^^That's possible, but it's also possible that Kid Buu was just completely insane and absorbed that guy for fun. The fight between them was pretty short and he was doing fine from what I saw, but I don't think he could have beaten Kid Buu. Maybe he was stronger, but it's not enough to be stronger than Buu. You can't just kill Buu, you have to overkill Buu. I doubt that the South Kai had that kind of power.

**Majuub** · 10-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkprince410

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majuub666

Now that's something really interesting.

Buff Buu is Kid Buu when he absorbed South Kaioshin, but the power of South Kaioshin musn't be that great, here is why:

East Kaioshin was confident in Gohan's power, he said that none of the Kaioshins were POWERFUL enough to pull out the Z sword, an SSJ2 Gohan was enough to pull it out. What can we assume? That the power of the South Kai was weaker than the power of an SSJ2 Gohan.

We saw what an SSJ2 was to Kid Buu, when he was fighting SSJ2 Vegeta who was clearly stronger than the SSJ2 Gohan who pulled out the Z sword, an SSJ2 was almost nothing to Kid Buu, so what would the power of Buff Buu is?? Not far more powerful than Kid Buu's power.

We can assume that the South Kaioshin was at least on equal standing with Piccolo, so it's a toss-up. At best, Piccolo Buu is as strong as Buff Buu but he can't be stronger.

You're somewhat mistaken with the context of how East Kaioushin-sama describes the legend of the Zed Sword. You, like so many people I've seen before, believe that what he was saying was that every Kaioushin-sama has tried to draw it out and has failed, but going by how he worded it, what he said was that every Kaioushin-sama that has tried it has failed. As such, we can't assume that he ever tried to remove it, thus we don't have an accurate assessment of his power.

However, we can infer that his power was immense (I'm willing to gamble that he was stronger than Chibi Buu), because Buu opted to absorb him rather than kill him outright, and I believe that it was either just Buu didn't want to fight him knowing that he'd lose (even an animal driven by instinct will know when he absolutely can't win a fight), or that he tried fighting South Kaioushin-sama but simply wasn't able to beat him.

Guess what lol. I have an old version of DBZ, in that old version(In french) it says that all the Kaioshins who have tried to remove the Z sword failed. I recieved a the new double volumes combination with the characters true name and an enhanced translation, in the new translation, it says that every Kaioshin tried and failed lol. Now I don't know which one is more accurate since in the old translation there was an enormous error in Frieza's power, in volume 25, when he achieved his 2nd form, he said that his power was over 100,000, in the new translation he says that his power is indeed over 1,000,000. So I don't know which one is the most reliable lol, I'm rather lost by now.
Stronger than Chibi Buu, maybe, he was as strong, or far stronger, but even if he was 4x stronger than Chibi Buu it still wouldn't be enough to make Buff Buu stronger than Shin Buu. We can put it anyway we want, if the South Kaioshin was 5x stronger than Kid Buu, he would have killed him without loosing a second. Also, didn't Babidi say that they couldn't use the power of the East Kaioshin in order awake Buu, if so, does that mean that, for Buu, the power of the Kaioshins are obsolete?? I asked this question before, why did Buff Buu opted to absorb the Rou Dai Kaioshin rather than killing him right away, do you think that, the South Kaioshin had some kind of influence over his mind?

**SS2 Vegeto** · 10-09-2007

Majin Buu also absorbs traits. Kai's affect him wierd to begin with, so it's not surprising that Majin Buu did not just add his power. Dai Kaioshin made him weaker. <_<;

ANB · 10-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majuub666

Also, didn't Babidi say that they couldn't use the power of the East Kaioshin in order awake Buu, if so, does that mean that, for Buu, the power of the Kaioshins are obsolete?? I asked this question before, why did Buff Buu opted to absorb the Rou Dai Kaioshin rather than killing him right away, do you think that, the South Kaioshin had some kind of influence over his mind?

I'll take that quesion:

*Supreme (East) Kai,*

-He wanted to fight Goku. Does that make him an idiot...? Now, people are going to bring up his weird method for guaging strength, but in this thread: http://mfgforums.com/forums/t/1115.aspx?PageIndex=5

I quote myself:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

I'll try to let you guys debate this amongst yourselve's, but here's why I think Dabra, Kaioshin, and Kibit have such a weird way of guaging strength: Buu's ball. Remember that they needed to gather as much energy as possible. Kaioshin did not honestly believe Pocus could defeat them, he (along with Yakon) had special abilities; in addition to being on par with the base saiyajins.

I'll explain,

1) Goku gracefully, but not effortlessly, avoids Yakon's blows with the same laid-back attitude as Vegeta when he dodged Dodoria's blows. The same thing with Kuririn and Nappa (2.25 according to Daizenshuu), except Kuririn was more aggressive. This means Base Goku was 1.11x stronger than Yakon.

2) I reiterate: They needed to garner as much power as they could muster from the battles. That's why Dabra said "Already...?"; he thought it'd be a waste of resources (And they obviously had others besides him).

3) Kaioshin was astute enough to sense the not only Buu's ki when it dissapeared (ROSAT), but he also was the one to point out every human was exterminated. If those aren't good senses I don't know what is.

-Based on my research and the unanimous opinion of the most hard-core manga-purists (On this site), my analysis on Supreme Kai is this: He is paranoid of any evil person who goes around spreading PH34R because of what happened to him (The tragedy with ~~Cho at Virginia Tech~~, I mean Kid Buu). He judges potential threats based entirely on speculation and reputation. That is why he kept getting so fidgety about Pocus, the "Champion in his Home-World", and Yakon whom had magical abilities.

-Kaioshin wanted to test Goku at the Budokai. Kibito even made the "blunder" of convincing Gohan to go SSJ 2. This, coupled with the fact Kaioshin had confidence in Gohan proves he could have been as low as 4X weaker than him.

-Kaioshin can indeed sense chi, on a level near Piccolo's.

Speaking of Piccolo, the only reason he forfeit was due to respect. Not once in the series did Piccolo display PH34R towards someone unless they COMPLETELY outstripped him. I dare someone to contradict this. It is just like the matter of Tenshinhan vs. Kuririn post Cell-Games: Yamcha said he was the strongest human. No one could sense Tryclops' chi, so it was a safe gamble; plus he wanted to cheer Marron up. Does that make it "Nuff said"...? Of course not, it just means Toriyama making Yamcha say it means it's a FACT. In other words, it is very likely Piccolo trained enough to weild MSSJ-like power (But doesn't prove wether or not he trained over the 7 year-lapse, which is doubtfull).

To answer your first question, yes. For the majority of Kaioshins, they were probably</=East (Probably weaker). Only South Kaioshin had considerable power.

Conclusion: Supreme Kai was stronger than the MSSJ's. Supreme Kai>>>MSSJ Vegeta>MSSJ Goku>/=(Piccolo...?)>>>Dabra>/nearly=MSSJ Gohan.

*Rou Dai Kaioshin,*

Chibi Buu (A.K.A Evil Buu) is stated to be dead even with SSJ 3 Goku (Not full power). He wreaked havoc with Bibidi, until the Kai's challenged his power.

-The North was killed.

-The West was killed.

-The East somehow survived and managed to kill Bibidi.

-The South...was absorbed.

-The Rou was absorbed and left such an imprint on Buu that he changed personality completely.

Now, I think we ought to give Fat Man his props. For Buu to become an entirely new person and change drastically from killer to playfull Sociopath is a great plot-device. It show how pure Rou was. Now, for him to do that he'd either need to be A) Very magical, or B) Very powerfull.

The 15 gen. Elder Kaioshin isn't a good arguement because he didn't get those magical abilities until he merged with the witch. Additionally, and this is speculation, if he was that good, how did Bibidi escape...? And couldn't he simply smite Evil Buu with a lvl. 9000 spell??? That didn't happen (As far as we know), all that is certain is he was a very pure being and left an imprint on Buu. As for him being strong, it's very likely. The Buu of Wrath (Super Buu) had a tendency to only use absorption as a "last resort", like Tenshinhan's Taiyoken or Piccolo's Makkenkosappo. Of course, the traits of Wrath Buu and Evil Buu are extremely contrasting (The former is a lot like Cell).

ANB · 10-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS2 Vegeto

Majin Buu also absorbs traits. Kai's affect him wierd to begin with, so it's not surprising that Majin Buu did not just add his power. Dai Kaioshin made him weaker. <_<;

You must have been sick when they were playing the Fusion Saga on Toonami (Let alone read Volume 25, which I OWN).

Piccolo constituted maybe 8-12% of Buu when he was absorbed. Think about that. And despite the absurde difference, Piccolo still added to Wrath Buu.

**SS2 Vegeto** · 10-09-2007

What does that have to do with how other characters affect Majin Buu depending on traits..? It's not "difference" that weakened Buu, either...

ANB · 10-10-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS2 Vegeto

What does that have to do with how other characters affect Majin Buu depending on traits..? It's not "difference" that weakened Buu, either...

...ONLY, IT DOESN'T MAKE A BIT OF DIFFERENCE GUYS, Boo of innocence (Tainted with the incarnation of Evil Buu)>>>Kid Buu, REMEMBER?11?1 Ask Legendary, Your claim is inert.

deckzone3000 · 10-10-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devilz

Buff Buu was stated to be stronger than Super Buu.

Piccolo Buu is hardly any stronger than Super Buu.

If Buff Buu is even 1% stronger than Super Buu, I think he should win.

Even though Piccolo-Buu has Piccolo's brains?

10-06-2007	#1 (permalink)
Haxafax (6) Disciple of Kami Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 45 Rep Power: 0	"Buff" Buu vs. Super Buu (Piccolo Prime) Who would win? We don't really see much of either fighting-wise, but who's stronger?

10-06-2007	#2 (permalink)
Super Cool Naruto Ranked (26) Shichibi Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: SuperCoolsville Posts: 4,970 Rep Power: 26	Re: "Buff" Buu vs. Super Buu (Piccolo Prime) I'm sure Super buu(piccolo prime) is really weak because goku was so confident and buu was really scared. I think Buff Buu is really strong because it's supposed to be the power of that strong supreme kai(kinda looked like Android 16) __________________

10-06-2007	#4 (permalink)
Majuub Moderator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 5,004 Rep Power: 143	Re: "Buff" Buu vs. Super Buu (Piccolo Prime) Now that's something really interesting. Buff Buu is Kid Buu when he absorbed South Kaioshin, but the power of South Kaioshin musn't be that great, here is why: East Kaioshin was confident in Gohan's power, he said that none of the Kaioshins were POWERFUL enough to pull out the Z sword, an SSJ2 Gohan was enough to pull it out. What can we assume? That the power of the South Kai was weaker than the power of an SSJ2 Gohan. We saw what an SSJ2 was to Kid Buu, when he was fighting SSJ2 Vegeta who was clearly stronger than the SSJ2 Gohan who pulled out the Z sword, an SSJ2 was almost nothing to Kid Buu, so what would the power of Buff Buu is?? Not far more powerful than Kid Buu's power. We can assume that the South Kaioshin was at least on equal standing with Piccolo, so it's a toss-up. At best, Piccolo Buu is as strong as Buff Buu but he can't be stronger. __________________

10-06-2007	#5 (permalink)
warcrack (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 1,309 Rep Power: 10	Re: "Buff" Buu vs. Super Buu (Piccolo Prime) The only information about Buff Buu that we have is that he is stronger than Super Buu: in the manga, when Super Buu was reverting back to Kid Buu, he first became Buff Buu. As he transformed, Goku commented nervously that his chi was getting bigger. When Super Buu (Gotenks absorbed) reverted back to Super Buu (Piccolo absorbed), Goku stated that he was now weak enough for Ultimate Gohan to easily beat him. So while Piccolo Buu was stronger, it was by a miniscule margin. I personally think that there is too little information regarding the two to make a solid conclusion, but I guess if I had to, I'd put it at Piccolo Buu, since he is more intelligent and could probably outsmart Buff Buu. Goku's nervous tone of voice regarding Buff Buu's increased chi may have simply stemmed from his surprise at the transformation and his fear that he now had to fight someone stronger than Super Buu, so the actual power increase may have not been much. I still think that Buff Buu is stronger than Piccolo Buu however, but not by anything more than 1.2x. Edit: I feel stupid having said that Piccolo Buu would win. Buff Buu takes this. His increase was noticable enough to frighten Goku and Vegeta, and a Piccolo-sized increase wouldn't have done that. __________________

10-09-2007	#8 (permalink)
FierceGamer (13) Great Ape Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New York, NY Posts: 286 Rep Power: 2	Re: "Buff" Buu vs. Super Buu (Piccolo Prime) ^^That's possible, but it's also possible that Kid Buu was just completely insane and absorbed that guy for fun. The fight between them was pretty short and he was doing fine from what I saw, but I don't think he could have beaten Kid Buu. Maybe he was stronger, but it's not enough to be stronger than Buu. You can't just kill Buu, you have to overkill Buu. I doubt that the South Kai had that kind of power. __________________ One day Chuck Norris walked down the street with a massive erection ... there were no survivors.

10-09-2007	#10 (permalink)
SS2 Vegeto Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In God's Hands Posts: 9,393 Rep Power: 35	Re: "Buff" Buu vs. Super Buu (Piccolo Prime) Majin Buu also absorbs traits. Kai's affect him wierd to begin with, so it's not surprising that Majin Buu did not just add his power. Dai Kaioshin made him weaker. <_<; __________________

10-09-2007	#13 (permalink)
SS2 Vegeto Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In God's Hands Posts: 9,393 Rep Power: 35	Re: "Buff" Buu vs. Super Buu (Piccolo Prime) What does that have to do with how other characters affect Majin Buu depending on traits..? It's not "difference" that weakened Buu, either... __________________