super vegetto vs. raizen (at his prime)

SS2 gogeta is #1 · 04-29-2007

who do you think will win?

SUPER VEGETTO

VS.

RAIZEN (AT HIS PRIME)

**Zer0** · 04-29-2007

It depends on your interpretation of the manga. Some people say they refer to the human world as everything while others refer to it just as earth. I really can't make a descion because manga wise I'm only at where Yusuke was kidnapped.

**JAIF** · 05-01-2007

Quote:

His power was so great that days before starving to death he still had enough Youki stored in him to shake the entire Demon World with his stomach growling.

This is from wiki, where I looked Raizen up. If it's true... I think Raizen wins <_<

Broly · 05-02-2007

I read it too, but I don't really see anything in there that clearly says he can beat SSj Vegetto.

SS2 gogeta is #1 · 05-05-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer0

It depends on your interpretation of the manga. Some people say they refer to the human world as everything while others refer to it just as earth. I really can't make a descion because manga wise I'm only at where Yusuke was kidnapped.

actually, the one who started this was one person and i've read about his statements. it's all about statements and hardly fact.

ex. he said that itsuki's dimension is shaking at sensui's power but the truth is it's just an animation inconsistency if not then why does kuwabara,hiei,kurama and itsuki feel nothing at that time.most importantly that is not present at the raw manga of yuyu hakusho.the scan that shown there was the city and the cave shaking not the universe.

here is the site:

www.rawmanga.com

yu yu hakusho vol.16

the underlings of yu yu hakusho anime keeps on deleting the word human in their definition of human world, human realm and human plane.

ningenkai is earth not the universe.

big question: where does human reside?

read about shinobu's techniques/powers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinobu_Sensui

for the thread:

remember, raizen (at his prime) was wounded and struck by an arrow at his back before he met yusuke's mother (indirectly).

HE'S VULNERABLE COMPARE TO DBZ...

vulnerable to blades and guns........

G-lord · 06-06-2007

Itsuki's dimension, called Akkuka, was shown shaking due to Sensui's power (although I admit it wasn't as noticable in the Manga...it was shown to have literally "rumbled" in the Manga). Even the stars in the distance were shaking. In short, you weren't looking at the right scan. In the scan you were talking about, we only saw the city and the area around it shaking, but clearly saw that nothing beyond that was affected. You are right when referring to that scan. However, that is not the one that we used last time.

That one scan you mentioned was AFTER Sensui shook the universe, after Sensui limited his power further, after the event SS2 Vegeto, PoWeROfGoHaN and I were talking about. Go to www.rawmanga.com for the scans, as if the 3 of us found it, so can anyone else. Look for the "gou" SFX, as it happens when that appears.

Also, we could tell that for the Anime scene, it wasn't merely an animation incosistency. I think that everyone inside Itsuki's dimension gasping when it started to shake (on top of Kuwabara saying: "What's happening?") shows that Itsuki's realm was clearly shaking noticably. If the whole dimension wasn't shaking, then the stars would not be shaking. The whole lot was shown to be shaking, so that's what happened.

Through that one feat, Sensui showed that he could produce and output an infinite amount of energy, and could therefore destroy any finite object in Ningenkai, including countries, planets, stars and galaxies. That is why I believe Sensui when he said his power was too strong for Ningenkai, as his power was too much for Ningenkai to handle. If he was shaking universes at close to 0% of his power, I believe there is some substance to his claims when he said he could destroy the universe.

Sensui's universe shaking feat showed he had far more power than any Vegetto showed. Although we don't know Vegetto's limits, I'd have to say at this point that even Sensui would be able to defeat him if we base it on power showings alone.

Also, it is clearly shown in the VIZ YYH Manga that Ningenkai can refer to the "Human Plane" (in addition to referring to Earth and the Human Race). That one I actually do have a scan for:

Yes, the "Human Realm" does mean "Earth"at times. It even means "Tokyo" in the Saint Beast Arc, and meant "the human race" in other arcs. But the broadest and most correct definition is "Human Plane", as it recognises all of the other definitions (whereas Earth doesn't recognise the planar definition). Even Yoshihiro Togashi himself said that the Realms were "parallel planes of existence."

Also, Raizen getting hit by an arrow was cotradictory filler material from the Anime. In the Manga, Raizen just went to Ningenkai in order to get food. He found Yusuke's ancestor. He was not wounded or incapacitated in any way. Even when he was weakened, Raizen was not injured once in YYH. By injury, I also mean scratches. Nothing anyone did could harm him. The Anime completely contradicted the Manga. If you want proof, go to www.rawmanga.com for the scans.

Finally, on a more general note, do you know what's up with the RawManga site? I can't seem to download anything from there (it keeps giving me a 404). It's just hard to show scans when you can't get them ^_^. That's the main reason why I've been referring to the site and not posting the scans. I will try to procure them, though.

04-29-2007	#1 (permalink)
SS2 gogeta is #1 (4) Turtle School Disciple Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 24 Rep Power: 0	super vegetto vs. raizen (at his prime) who do you think will win? SUPER VEGETTO VS. RAIZEN (AT HIS PRIME)

04-29-2007	#2 (permalink)
Zer0 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hn, None of your business Posts: 10,184 Blog Entries: 4 Rep Power: 146	Re: super vegetto vs. raizen (at his prime) It depends on your interpretation of the manga. Some people say they refer to the human world as everything while others refer to it just as earth. I really can't make a descion because manga wise I'm only at where Yusuke was kidnapped. __________________ Want a colored username? Then check out the Weekly Naruto & Bleach Caption Contests.

05-02-2007	#4 (permalink)
Broly The Desolate One Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: You think I give a shit about where you think I stay? Posts: 7,543 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 33	Re: super vegetto vs. raizen (at his prime) I read it too, but I don't really see anything in there that clearly says he can beat SSj Vegetto. __________________ $C:\Users\Silver Platter\Pictures\Broly_SSJ5_by_Gothax.jpg$

06-06-2007	#6 (permalink)
G-lord (14) Warrior of Namek Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Melbourne Posts: 392 Rep Power: 5	Re: super vegetto vs. raizen (at his prime) Itsuki's dimension, called Akkuka, was shown shaking due to Sensui's power (although I admit it wasn't as noticable in the Manga...it was shown to have literally "rumbled" in the Manga). Even the stars in the distance were shaking. In short, you weren't looking at the right scan. In the scan you were talking about, we only saw the city and the area around it shaking, but clearly saw that nothing beyond that was affected. You are right when referring to that scan. However, that is not the one that we used last time. That one scan you mentioned was AFTER Sensui shook the universe, after Sensui limited his power further, after the event SS2 Vegeto, PoWeROfGoHaN and I were talking about. Go to www.rawmanga.com for the scans, as if the 3 of us found it, so can anyone else. Look for the "gou" SFX, as it happens when that appears. Also, we could tell that for the Anime scene, it wasn't merely an animation incosistency. I think that everyone inside Itsuki's dimension gasping when it started to shake (on top of Kuwabara saying: "What's happening?") shows that Itsuki's realm was clearly shaking noticably. If the whole dimension wasn't shaking, then the stars would not be shaking. The whole lot was shown to be shaking, so that's what happened. Through that one feat, Sensui showed that he could produce and output an infinite amount of energy, and could therefore destroy any finite object in Ningenkai, including countries, planets, stars and galaxies. That is why I believe Sensui when he said his power was too strong for Ningenkai, as his power was too much for Ningenkai to handle. If he was shaking universes at close to 0% of his power, I believe there is some substance to his claims when he said he could destroy the universe. Sensui's universe shaking feat showed he had far more power than any Vegetto showed. Although we don't know Vegetto's limits, I'd have to say at this point that even Sensui would be able to defeat him if we base it on power showings alone. Also, it is clearly shown in the VIZ YYH Manga that Ningenkai can refer to the "Human Plane" (in addition to referring to Earth and the Human Race). That one I actually do have a scan for: Yes, the "Human Realm" does mean "Earth"at times. It even means "Tokyo" in the Saint Beast Arc, and meant "the human race" in other arcs. But the broadest and most correct definition is "Human Plane", as it recognises all of the other definitions (whereas Earth doesn't recognise the planar definition). Even Yoshihiro Togashi himself said that the Realms were "parallel planes of existence." Also, Raizen getting hit by an arrow was cotradictory filler material from the Anime. In the Manga, Raizen just went to Ningenkai in order to get food. He found Yusuke's ancestor. He was not wounded or incapacitated in any way. Even when he was weakened, Raizen was not injured once in YYH. By injury, I also mean scratches. Nothing anyone did could harm him. The Anime completely contradicted the Manga. If you want proof, go to www.rawmanga.com for the scans. Finally, on a more general note, do you know what's up with the RawManga site? I can't seem to download anything from there (it keeps giving me a 404). It's just hard to show scans when you can't get them ^_^. That's the main reason why I've been referring to the site and not posting the scans. I will try to procure them, though. __________________ "Hail to the King, baby!"