Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks vs Super Saiyan 4 Goku

supergoku · 08-07-2006

If Goku's Super Saiyan 3 is overpowered by Gotenks'. Would Goku transforming into a Super Saiyan 4 make the match even or just lobsided?

DBAF Killer · 08-08-2006

SS4 Goku would easily beat SS3 Gotenks. Since SS4 Goku is way stronger than Mystic Gohan, SS3 Gotenks wouldn't be a match for him.

The Chibi Kiriyama · 08-08-2006

Goku would probably have to be supercharged by the Zet Senshi's chi to evenly fight. If not, this match is over. SS Gotenks post-RoSaT was stronger than SS3 Goku, and his Super Gotenks form was in a whole other league. Goku's SS4 form (even if one gives him the max amount of power increase) comes short of equaling him. If he's not supercharged he won't last long- fusions have a huge bevy of chi that Goku cannot boast and even with the 5 minute limitation he might be defeated. If he were supercharged I could honestly see him winning just on the basis that he's infinitely more experienced. Otherwise, as I've stated, Super Gotenks trounces him.

Prince Vegeta · 08-08-2006

I'd go with SSJ4 Goku even without the half saiyan powerup. It took the powers of three SSJ's to make SSJ4 Goku's power higher than Syn Shenron (Who was stated to be stronger than any other villian). So since Syn>Gohan Boo. Furthermore even if SSJ4 Goku is equal to Gohan Boo-3 SSJ's. He'd still be far stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. Though that's my opinion and many will disagree with me.

**SS2 Vegeto** · 08-08-2006

SSJ3 Gotenks. SSJ4 Goku is likely a fair bit weaker than Shin Buu. Certainly no more than equal.

If you're talking SSJ4 Goku (limits surpassed), then it's debateable.

Prince Vegeta · 08-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS2 Vegeto

SSJ3 Gotenks. SSJ4 Goku is likely a fair bit weaker than Shin Buu. Certainly no more than equal.

Just out of curiosity, what makes you think that Shin Boo is stronger than SSJ4 Goku?

**SS2 Vegeto** · 08-08-2006

My opinion on the transformation factors, mostly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS2 Vegeto

I still believe that it's either a tie or Shin Buu by a bit.
Multiplying the number in the amount of increase by the number of the
transformation has always got me results accurate enough not to
contradict themselves one bit on a power level listing. There seems to
be an increasing gap between each level of super saiyan attained. Let's
assume base Goku has a power of 10. Multiplied by 50x (super saiyan)
it's now 500. Multiply the previous number of the multiplication by the
number of the next transformation (in this case 2, for super saiyan 2),
50x 2, and his power level is now 1000 (though there are inbetween
stages to this, different "grades" of super saiyan, this can be boosted
to 50x 2.5, resulting in 1500, to better fit certain situations). So
now we've assumed it's boosted to 1500, and the multiplication is 150x
from base. Multiply that multiplication by 3, for super saiyan 3, and
you've got a multiplication factor from the base of 450, thus resulting
in a power level of 4500. For super saiyan 4, 450x 4 results in a
massive multiplication factor (from the base) of 1800, resulting in a
colossal power level of 18,000. However, I've always viewed Shin Buu as
atleast 5 times the strength of FPSSJ3 Goku. 5x 4500 results in a power
level of 22,500. This would make SSJ4 Goku's power level 4500 points
lower than Shin Buu's, which is the exact power level of FPSSJ3 Goku
(or atleast the one used to represent his level of power, so as to
simplify the multiplications) according to my theory, which works
perfectly with my previous post in which I assumed that SSJ4 Goku was
one times the power of SSJ3 Goku, below that of Super Buu. It's based
on speculation, but it seems to work perfectly with the manga.

Note that this is still under the assumption that base Goku is
significantly weaker than his super saiyan form, even after hitting
that transformation's limits as a FPSSJ. I generally theorize, that
since Goku and SSJ Goku are the exact same being, as he trains in SSJ
form, his base power will still increase along with it, thus not
changing the multiplication factor, yet increasing his power as a
whole, considering he has only one body, and that one body is
undergoing whatever training it's undergoing, regardless of what form
it's in, thus not having an impact on the multiplication factor, but
rather, increasing the individual's power as a whole. If he trains in
base.....well his power will still increase as a whole, though he may
not have much practice with controlling his power in a transformed
state. Basically, I tend to find this much more logical, and from what
I see, it doesn't seem to contradict the manga either.

Well, those are my thoughts.

~~TwistedFaith~~ · 08-08-2006

And the fact that -none- of SSj 4 Gokuu's ki-ko-ha's, even those at full power, even destroyed as little to a planet and/or a star, let alone a few million galaxies as Shin Buu should have been fully capable of(and breaching the fabric of the space-time continuum, while he's at it, with the force of his breath, lawl.)? Given this, if you apply canon logic into the equation, he'd no stronger(if not much weaker) than Muten Roshi at full power. However, with GT logic(as if such thing even exists)....that's a whole 'nother story.

**SS2 Vegeto** · 08-08-2006

They can focus their blasts on certain things, narrow them, etc. You
can get a decent order of power based on cannon logic, but of course,
you have to ignore many direct statements in GT, assuming all of them
are false even within it's own series, if you are to judge it by the
cannon. However, I much prefer this method to trying to make sense of
GT logic, an impossible task, that requires you to ignore many things
evident within the manga.

Broly · 08-08-2006

Logicly, I know SSj3 Gotenks would own SSj4 Goku. If SSj3 Goku cant even tread water against Shin Boo, what makes you think that SSj4 Goku can beat SSj3 Gotenks[who is prolly a little stronger than shin boo]?

The Mighty Goku · 08-09-2006

WOW.

Okay.....SS4 Goku would annihilate SS3 Gotenks with one hand tied behind his back. Base Goku in GT was able to defeat both HFIL Cell and HFIL Frieza. HFIL Cell is stated to be MUCH stronger than Super Perfect Cell. And Base Goku overcame him like he was nothing. This would put Base Goku in GT equal or stronger than Majin Vegeta. Syn Shenron was STATED to be the most powerful villian that has ever graced the Dragonball Universe. This would put Syn Shenron above Buuhan. And don't forget, that when Goku fought Syn, he was blind and tired....and he had been fighting the whole day, so its safe to assume that if both were rejuvinated that they would be roughly equal. SS4 Goku would destroy SS3 Gotenks....and spin Ultimate Gohan like a top at the same time.

This isn't a fight, its a massacre.

Omega Shenron >> SS4 Goku (powered-up) >> Syn Shenron > or =

SS4 Goku (Blind and tired) > Buuhan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SS3 Gotenks

Prince Vegeta · 08-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS2 Vegeto

They can focus their blasts on certain things, narrow them, etc. You can get a decent order of power based on cannon logic, but of course, you have to ignore many direct statements in GT, assuming all of them are false even within it's own series, if you are to judge it by the cannon. However, I much prefer this method to trying to make sense of GT logic, an impossible task, that requires you to ignore many things evident within the manga.

It's up to Toei how strong they make their characters. Hell, thy can make SSJ4 Goku a million times stronger than SSJ3 Goku if they wanted to... It's their series. That's my personal opinon and that's I say that SSJ4 Goku would win. Since Syn was stated to be stronger than the strongest villlian, that being Gohan Boo. And since SSJ4 Goku was only a little weaker than Syn. that's my personal opinon and as far as I'm concerned we can't say that I'm definately right or that you're definately about the matter at hand. Since it requires an opinion... I'm sure you can agree with me on that.

Broly · 08-09-2006

But how can SS4 be THAT much stronger than SS3? It's just not possible for it to be that much stronger in my mind. SS3 Goku in Z was about the same power as Kid Buu. Super Buu is so much farther above SS3 Goku, that SS3 Goku was scared to fight him, right? The point: If Goku is as strong as Syn and Syn is above Gohan Buu, that would mean that SS4 Goku is at least as powerful as SS Vegeto, since Syn is above Gohan Buu. I find it very hard to believe that SS4 can match Vegeto, no matter who you are. Their cant be a transformation boost of power that great. But I wont argue with you that its their series and they can do what they want with it. Like you said "Hell, they can make SSJ4 Goku a million times stronger than SSJ3 Goku if they wanted to...It's their series."

V3g3t0 · 08-09-2006

Even if we go by the logic that SSJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku in DBZ (eventough it's pure madness and irrational ) SSJ4 Goku would still anihilate both Mystic Gohan & SSJ3 Gotenks faster than they could even say help .

Base Kid Goku defeated a Cell a lot stronger than his Ultra Perfect Cell form + Frieza without effort putting him stronger or equal with Majin Vegeta . This means that even if we go by your theories about base Gotenks >= Majin Vegeta , base Kid Goku from Gt is equal with Base Gotenks . Also SSJ Goku defeated General Rildo , a villain stated to be stronger than Buu .We don't know which Buu , logic would be that he refferes to Super Buu w/Gohan but let's just put Kid Buu , who eventough I belive he is stronger than Super Buu w/Gohan , we'll put him conform to your theories . We deduct that SSJ3 Kid Goku = SSJ3 Gotenks . Now onto SSJ4 Goku . Baby Vegeta owned SSJ3 Kid Goku like it was nothing . Meaning the same thing will happen if he would have fought SSJ3 Gotenks . Goku transforms into Golden Oozaru then he transforms into SSJ4 . Now in this form he owns Baby Vegeta like nothing , the same Baby Vegeta that would have wiped the floor with SSJ3 Gotenks . Baby Vegeta turns Oozaru and only then he is equal with SSJ4 Goku . We know that the normal Oozaru increases the users power about 10 times right ? well it is stated that since Baby Vegeta didn't have a tail when he transformed he was even stronger + he was golden oozaru who was even stronger than normal Oozaru . Let's just say that Baby Vegeta recived an 15X increase when he transformed into Oozaru . So SSJ4 Goku is 15X stronger than Baby Vegeta who is also stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks . Note: I'm putting the minimum differences in their power . Let's just say that SSJ4 Goku is about 20X stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks according to these calculations.Mystic Gohan is about 1.2 - 1,3 X stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks . So in the best case SSJ4 Goku is only 15X stronger than Mystic Gohan .

Also when SSJ4 Goku is first formed the Old Kai says that he is the strongest warrior ever existed .Putting him above SSJ/2 Vegeto , who is about 15X stronger than Gotenks .

So SSJ4 Goku = 15X Mystic Gohan (in the minimum difference between them)

SSJ4 Goku = 20X SSJ3 Gotenks .

This is also confirmed when Goten & Trunks want to fuse to fight Baby Oozaru Vegeta but Goku says they don't have a chance and the SSJ4 is there only chance .

The Gt characters were overpowered but that doesn't change the fact that this things are facts .

End of thread .

ixidor · 08-09-2006

When goku was fighting golden oozaru baby, goten and trunks said that they would fuse in order to help him. Goku said it was useless, that they should give him their energy instead.

Ssj4 goku>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ssj3 gotenks

08-07-2006	#1 (permalink)
supergoku (10) Saiyan Elite Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 139 Rep Power: 3	Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks vs Super Saiyan 4 Goku If Goku's Super Saiyan 3 is overpowered by Gotenks'. Would Goku transforming into a Super Saiyan 4 make the match even or just lobsided?

08-08-2006	#2 (permalink)
DBAF Killer (21) Majin Warrior Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,619 Rep Power: 6	Re: Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks vs Super Saiyan 4 Goku SS4 Goku would easily beat SS3 Gotenks. Since SS4 Goku is way stronger than Mystic Gohan, SS3 Gotenks wouldn't be a match for him.

08-08-2006	#3 (permalink)
The Chibi Kiriyama (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Henderson, Nevada Posts: 1,299 Rep Power: 5	Re: Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks vs Super Saiyan 4 Goku Goku would probably have to be supercharged by the Zet Senshi's chi to evenly fight. If not, this match is over. SS Gotenks post-RoSaT was stronger than SS3 Goku, and his Super Gotenks form was in a whole other league. Goku's SS4 form (even if one gives him the max amount of power increase) comes short of equaling him. If he's not supercharged he won't last long- fusions have a huge bevy of chi that Goku cannot boast and even with the 5 minute limitation he might be defeated. If he were supercharged I could honestly see him winning just on the basis that he's infinitely more experienced. Otherwise, as I've stated, Super Gotenks trounces him.

08-08-2006	#5 (permalink)
SS2 Vegeto Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In God's Hands Posts: 9,291 Rep Power: 25	Re: Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks vs Super Saiyan 4 Goku SSJ3 Gotenks. SSJ4 Goku is likely a fair bit weaker than Shin Buu. Certainly no more than equal. If you're talking SSJ4 Goku (limits surpassed), then it's debateable. __________________

08-08-2006	#8 (permalink)
~~TwistedFaith~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Rome. Haven't figured that out yet? Go play 'headbanging' with the wall. Posts: 887 Rep Power: 0	Re: Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks vs Super Saiyan 4 Goku And the fact that -none- of SSj 4 Gokuu's ki-ko-ha's, even those at full power, even destroyed as little to a planet and/or a star, let alone a few million galaxies as Shin Buu should have been fully capable of(and breaching the fabric of the space-time continuum, while he's at it, with the force of his breath, lawl.)? Given this, if you apply canon logic into the equation, he'd no stronger(if not much weaker) than Muten Roshi at full power. However, with GT logic(as if such thing even exists)....that's a whole 'nother story.

08-08-2006	#9 (permalink)
SS2 Vegeto Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In God's Hands Posts: 9,291 Rep Power: 25	Re: Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks vs Super Saiyan 4 Goku They can focus their blasts on certain things, narrow them, etc. You can get a decent order of power based on cannon logic, but of course, you have to ignore many direct statements in GT, assuming all of them are false even within it's own series, if you are to judge it by the cannon. However, I much prefer this method to trying to make sense of GT logic, an impossible task, that requires you to ignore many things evident within the manga. __________________

08-08-2006	#10 (permalink)
Broly G-Villain Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Big Bad Walk. Posts: 7,413 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 23	Re: Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks vs Super Saiyan 4 Goku Logicly, I know SSj3 Gotenks would own SSj4 Goku. If SSj3 Goku cant even tread water against Shin Boo, what makes you think that SSj4 Goku can beat SSj3 Gotenks[who is prolly a little stronger than shin boo]? __________________ $C:\Users\Silver Platter\Pictures\Untitled.jpg$ HAHAHAHAHA!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb58XZk9cpY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vETJluw9ROM&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNmGI...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUgQB...eature=related

08-09-2006	#11 (permalink)
The Mighty Goku (9) Namekian Warrior Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 100 Rep Power: 3	Re: Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks vs Super Saiyan 4 Goku WOW. Okay.....SS4 Goku would annihilate SS3 Gotenks with one hand tied behind his back. Base Goku in GT was able to defeat both HFIL Cell and HFIL Frieza. HFIL Cell is stated to be MUCH stronger than Super Perfect Cell. And Base Goku overcame him like he was nothing. This would put Base Goku in GT equal or stronger than Majin Vegeta. Syn Shenron was STATED to be the most powerful villian that has ever graced the Dragonball Universe. This would put Syn Shenron above Buuhan. And don't forget, that when Goku fought Syn, he was blind and tired....and he had been fighting the whole day, so its safe to assume that if both were rejuvinated that they would be roughly equal. SS4 Goku would destroy SS3 Gotenks....and spin Ultimate Gohan like a top at the same time. This isn't a fight, its a massacre. Omega Shenron >> SS4 Goku (powered-up) >> Syn Shenron > or = SS4 Goku (Blind and tired) > Buuhan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SS3 Gotenks

08-09-2006	#13 (permalink)
Broly G-Villain Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Big Bad Walk. Posts: 7,413 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 23	Re: Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks vs Super Saiyan 4 Goku But how can SS4 be THAT much stronger than SS3? It's just not possible for it to be that much stronger in my mind. SS3 Goku in Z was about the same power as Kid Buu. Super Buu is so much farther above SS3 Goku, that SS3 Goku was scared to fight him, right? The point: If Goku is as strong as Syn and Syn is above Gohan Buu, that would mean that SS4 Goku is at least as powerful as SS Vegeto, since Syn is above Gohan Buu. I find it very hard to believe that SS4 can match Vegeto, no matter who you are. Their cant be a transformation boost of power that great. But I wont argue with you that its their series and they can do what they want with it. Like you said "Hell, they can make SSJ4 Goku a million times stronger than SSJ3 Goku if they wanted to...It's their series." __________________ $C:\Users\Silver Platter\Pictures\Untitled.jpg$ HAHAHAHAHA!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb58XZk9cpY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vETJluw9ROM&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNmGI...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUgQB...eature=related

08-09-2006	#14 (permalink)
V3g3t0 (12) Saiyan Prince Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 223 Rep Power: 3	Re: Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks vs Super Saiyan 4 Goku Even if we go by the logic that SSJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku in DBZ (eventough it's pure madness and irrational ) SSJ4 Goku would still anihilate both Mystic Gohan & SSJ3 Gotenks faster than they could even say help . Base Kid Goku defeated a Cell a lot stronger than his Ultra Perfect Cell form + Frieza without effort putting him stronger or equal with Majin Vegeta . This means that even if we go by your theories about base Gotenks >= Majin Vegeta , base Kid Goku from Gt is equal with Base Gotenks . Also SSJ Goku defeated General Rildo , a villain stated to be stronger than Buu .We don't know which Buu , logic would be that he refferes to Super Buu w/Gohan but let's just put Kid Buu , who eventough I belive he is stronger than Super Buu w/Gohan , we'll put him conform to your theories . We deduct that SSJ3 Kid Goku = SSJ3 Gotenks . Now onto SSJ4 Goku . Baby Vegeta owned SSJ3 Kid Goku like it was nothing . Meaning the same thing will happen if he would have fought SSJ3 Gotenks . Goku transforms into Golden Oozaru then he transforms into SSJ4 . Now in this form he owns Baby Vegeta like nothing , the same Baby Vegeta that would have wiped the floor with SSJ3 Gotenks . Baby Vegeta turns Oozaru and only then he is equal with SSJ4 Goku . We know that the normal Oozaru increases the users power about 10 times right ? well it is stated that since Baby Vegeta didn't have a tail when he transformed he was even stronger + he was golden oozaru who was even stronger than normal Oozaru . Let's just say that Baby Vegeta recived an 15X increase when he transformed into Oozaru . So SSJ4 Goku is 15X stronger than Baby Vegeta who is also stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks . Note: I'm putting the minimum differences in their power . Let's just say that SSJ4 Goku is about 20X stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks according to these calculations.Mystic Gohan is about 1.2 - 1,3 X stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks . So in the best case SSJ4 Goku is only 15X stronger than Mystic Gohan . Also when SSJ4 Goku is first formed the Old Kai says that he is the strongest warrior ever existed .Putting him above SSJ/2 Vegeto , who is about 15X stronger than Gotenks . So SSJ4 Goku = 15X Mystic Gohan (in the minimum difference between them) SSJ4 Goku = 20X SSJ3 Gotenks . This is also confirmed when Goten & Trunks want to fuse to fight Baby Oozaru Vegeta but Goku says they don't have a chance and the SSJ4 is there only chance . The Gt characters were overpowered but that doesn't change the fact that this things are facts . End of thread .

08-09-2006	#15 (permalink)
ixidor (19) Mastered Super Saiyan Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,158 Rep Power: 4	Re: Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks vs Super Saiyan 4 Goku When goku was fighting golden oozaru baby, goten and trunks said that they would fuse in order to help him. Goku said it was useless, that they should give him their energy instead. Ssj4 goku>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ssj3 gotenks