Ultimate Gohan vs. fp Vegetto - Page 4

**SS2 Vegeto** · 07-28-2006

Well, the thing is, though we can't get anything solid on base
Vegetto's powers by only using the manga, it's nearly certain that the
anime's interpretation of that is way off. It is, in the end, a matter
of opinion whether Vegetto in his base form is weaker or stronger than
Chou Gohan. However, we can atleast make a rough estimate of his power
based on our interpretation of Super Vegetto's strength in contrast to
Gohan Buu's, and the multiplication factor at that point in the series.
However, that brings in more opinions.....I just chose one that I found
I could justify and went with it.

Beyonder · 07-28-2006

For me, the SSJ incresse was barrely used to make the differance between Bejiito and Boo.
It´s not really stated if he was SSJ or SSJ2, you can only speculate by that.

When it comes to abosorbation I think Boo worked the same way as Seru did.
Seru wanted the Jinzoningen´s because their power would be in Seru permamently.
The life force he absorbed, was teporarly -- It would go away when the people´s which life-spirit was sucked awayfrom would die. And since they don´t feed inside Seru it would just last a couple of day´s.
The Jinzoningen´s wouldent die inside Seru since their power source was unlimited. That´s why Seru wanted to absorb them. -- And as seen there it wasent just a simple power addition, it brought Seru to a whole new level.

Boo works the same way, when the people inside him die, so does it´s part of boosting.
The only reason he stayed Fat for that long was because Kaioshin can live for very long (stated by Elder Kaioshin).
This is why Boo´s power magnituded, after absorbing Gotenkusu.

The rivality boost in fusing is probobly the most intresting thing, we don´t know exactly how much more power you get. The thing that SSJ Bejiito was superior to Boo in the first place stunned me.

And as shown by the Kiri-scale;
[Speculation] - The SSJ incresse give less of an incresse the more base power you get.

By that I would say that the Super state didn´t give that much of a boost.
And since Boo´s powers magnitude like Seru´s,
I´d say that Bejiito would have good chanses of beating Gohan.

Thank you.

**SS2 Vegeto** · 07-28-2006

Well, I've actually long disagreed with Kiri's theory on
transformations....but that's something completely open to speculation.
We do know, however that Vegetto was only a super saiyan, much thanks
to Akira Toriyama's concept art, and whoever got their hands on it.

Beyonder · 07-28-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS2 Vegeto

Well, I've actually long disagreed with Kiri's theory on transformations....but that's something completely open to speculation. We do know, however that Vegetto was only a super saiyan, much thanks to Akira Toriyama's concept art, and whoever got their hands on it.

I know what you mean, We don´t know how to count kiri.
They might count it as decibell (sound scale) which doubles each time you add the factor 10.
And since it´s an messurement beyond our mind, we shouldent really be the judges of that.

**SS2 Vegeto** · 07-28-2006

Mine idea, in detail, was this (from the SSJ4 Goku vs. Shin Buu topic)...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS2 Vegeto

I still believe that it's either a tie or Shin Buu by a bit.
Multiplying the number in the amount of increase by the number of the
transformation has always got me results accurate enough not to
contradict themselves one bit on a power level listing. There seems to
be an increasing gap between each level of super saiyan attained. Let's
assume base Goku has a power of 10. Multiplied by 50x (super saiyan)
it's now 500. Multiply the previous number of the multiplication by the
number of the next transformation (in this case 2, for super saiyan 2),
50x 2, and his power level is now 1000 (though there are inbetween
stages to this, different "grades" of super saiyan, this can be boosted
to 50x 2.5, resulting in 1500, to better fit certain situations). So
now we've assumed it's boosted to 1500, and the multiplication is 150x
from base. Multiply that multiplication by 3, for super saiyan 3, and
you've got a multiplication factor from the base of 450, thus resulting
in a power level of 4500. For super saiyan 4, 450x 4 results in a
massive multiplication factor (from the base) of 1800, resulting in a
colossal power level of 18,000. However, I've always viewed Shin Buu as
atleast 5 times the strength of FPSSJ3 Goku. 5x 4500 results in a power
level of 22,500. This would make SSJ4 Goku's power level 4500 points
lower than Shin Buu's, which is the exact power level of FPSSJ3 Goku
(or atleast the one used to represent his level of power, so as to
simplify the multiplications) according to my theory, which works
perfectly with my previous post in which I assumed that SSJ4 Goku was
one times the power of SSJ3 Goku, below that of Super Buu. It's based
on speculation, but it seems to work perfectly with the manga.

Note that this is still under the assumption that base Goku is
significantly weaker than his super saiyan form, even after hitting
that transformation's limits as a FPSSJ. I generally theorize, that
since Goku and SSJ Goku are the exact same being, as he trains in SSJ
form, his base power will still increase along with it, thus not
changing the multiplication factor, yet increasing his power as a
whole, considering he has only one body, and that one body is
undergoing whatever training it's undergoing, regardless of what form
it's in, thus not having an impact on the multiplication factor, but
rather, increasing the individual's power as a whole. If he trains in
base.....well his power will still increase as a whole, though he may
not have much practice with controlling his power in a transformed
state. Basically, I tend to find this much more logical, and from what
I see, it doesn't seem to contradict the manga either.

Well, those are my thoughts.

Arros · 07-28-2006

Well since we don't know how strong Base Vegito is, this debate will most likely stand at a stalemate! People will just have their oppinion

**SS2 Vegeto** · 07-28-2006

Yeah, that's basically it. Just a lot of rationalizing and speculation.

Beyonder · 07-31-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS2 Vegeto

Mine idea, in detail, was this (from the SSJ4 Goku vs. Shin Buu topic)...

You can´t really compare it like that, SSJ4 Gokou was ridiculously powerful, to Toei he was probobly a par with Sûpâ Bejiito at his max.

Gokou as a kid could take down, Sûpâ Kanzentaini Seru and Shin Frûiza with ease, at least Seru was on SSJ2 level, and Fruiza seemed equal.

Oh well since it´s not canon you can´t really compare.

**SS2 Vegeto** · 07-31-2006

Sure you can.....if my theory is correct, it would basically prove
it.....by any logic, he's no where near Super Vegetto, doesn't even
approach Buu's absorbtions, and is considerably weaker than Chou
Gohan....however....that was about my interpretation of the
transformation factor. Super Saiyan 4 doesn't have anything to do with
this. I'm using my theory to justify my take on Chou Gohan's power, as
compared to Vegetto in his base form. Then again, there's always the
chance that the transformation factor is different for fusions, meaning
my theory could never be anything more than a theory.

Beyonder · 07-31-2006

There are two ways you can see it:

Chou Gohan is stronger than Gokou ever could be.

Or;

chibi Gokou owned Seru and Fruiza (about SSJ2 level) -- which would put him over the SSJ2´s and probobly above Gotenkusu.

chibi Gokou > Gotenkusu (Pre-RoTS)
chibi Gokou ~ Gotenkusu (Post-RoTS)

SSJ3 chibi Gokou ~ SSJ3 Gotenkusu

SSJ Gokou (adult) = Shin Bebi (~ chou Gohan) >> SSJ3 chibi Gokou

SSJ4 is in adult form.

So add some power to that and you have SSJ4 Gokou.

**SS2 Vegeto** · 07-31-2006

Even in his adult form, SSJ Goku can't be stronger than his own SSJ3
form, regardless of whether or not he's in the form of a child. I also
highly doubt that any villain other than Omega Shenron is stronger than
Chou Gohan.

V3g3t0 · 08-16-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS2 Vegeto

Even in his adult form, SSJ Goku can't be stronger than his own SSJ3 form, regardless of whether or not he's in the form of a child. I also highly doubt that any villain other than Omega Shenron is stronger than Chou Gohan.

I'd have to disagree on this . I already explained on another thread . Eventough I belive that SSJ3 Goku from the Buu Saga is stronger than Mystic Gohan, SSJ3 Gotenks and Super Buu I would go your way to prove it , that beying that SSJ Gotenks >= SSJ3 Goku and that Kid Buu = Evil Buu .

Base Kid Goku defeated a Cell stronger than his form when he fought Gohan in the kamehameha struggle + a Frieza also stronger than the one Goku fought .

This would put base kid Goku >= Majin Vegeta .

Also SSJ Goku defeated General Rildo who was stated to be stronger than Buu . We don't know which Buu he is reffering , logic would say that he reffers to the strongest Buu , in your opinion beying Super Buu w/Gohan but let's just say he reffers to Kid Buu . This also proves that SSJ Base Kid Goku >= SSJ3 Goku from the Kid Buu saga .

From all this we deduct that SSJ3 Kid Goku is as strong as SSJ3 Gotenks from Dragon Ball Z .

Baby Vegeta defeated SSJ3 Kid Goku , who is equal with SSJ3 Gotenks like he was nothing . After this Goku turns into Golden Oozaru and then he transforms into SSJ4 . In his SSJ4 Goku beats Baby Vegeta like he is nothing . Seiing himself get beaten , Baby Vegeta transforms into Golden Oozaru also and now he is equal with SSJ4 Goku .

We know that the normal Oozaru transformation increases power 10 times . Well it is stated that Golden Oozaru is even stronger + Baby Vegeta transformed without having a tail , thus beying EVEN stronger . Let's just put Baby Oozaru Vegeta 15 times stronger than his previous form , normal Baby Vegeta (Eventough I belive this multiplier is too low ) . So we know that SSJ4 Goku is about 15 times stronger than a Baby Vegeta who dominated SSJ3 Kid Goku who is equal with SSJ3 Gotenks . This would make SSj4 Goku about 20 times stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks and about 18 times stronger than Mystic Gohan .

This is also confirmed when the Kai says that SSJ4 Goku is the strongest warrior that ever lived , makin him stronger than even SSJ/2 Vegeto .

I also want to say that I've put the minimum differences between the multipliers and that I've shown this using Your opinions .

So we have : SSJ4 Goku = Baby Oozaru Vegeta > Baby Vegeta > Mystic Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks = SSJ3 Kid Goku

I don't even include the later villains and the SSJ4 Goku surpassed limits because those are even more powerfull .

Tyro · 08-16-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by V3g3t0

Also SSJ Goku defeated General Rildo who was stated to be stronger than Buu . We don't know which Buu he is reffering , logic would say that he reffers to the strongest Buu , in your opinion beying Super Buu w/Gohan but let's just say he reffers to Kid Buu . This also proves that SSJ Base Kid Goku >= SSJ3 Goku from the Kid Buu saga .

As stated by Prince Vegeta before, in the Japanese version, Trunks corrected Goku and said he was giving Rilldo way to much credit.

V3g3t0 · 08-16-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyro

Quote:

Originally Posted by V3g3t0

Also SSJ Goku defeated General Rildo who was stated to be stronger than Buu . We don't know which Buu he is reffering , logic would say that he reffers to the strongest Buu , in your opinion beying Super Buu w/Gohan but let's just say he reffers to Kid Buu . This also proves that SSJ Base Kid Goku >= SSJ3 Goku from the Kid Buu saga .

As stated by Prince Vegeta before, in the Japanese version, Trunks corrected Goku and said he was giving Rilldo way to much credit.

Doesn't matter the point is still the same . And I trust Goku at judging powerlevels instead of Trunks's word .

Even if that statement is false , SSJ4 Goku is still about 20X stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks and about 17-18X stronger than Mystic Gohan .

The thing is , that even if Goku's power is the same as in the Buu Saga , he would still be stronger than Mystic Gohan & SSJ3 Gotenks at SSJ4 due to the incredible increase when transforming into SSJ4 .

JerrodDRagon · 08-16-2006

No way SS4 goku was only twice as strong as Gotenks or Gohan.

But back on subject Vegetto kicked Gohan buu's ass, Buu had Piccolo, Gotens, Trunks, and Gohan in him.

While Gohan could only beat Piccolo buu (Piccolo, trunks and Gotens)

Vegetto is like the most powerful character in DBZ!

07-28-2006	#46 (permalink)
SS2 Vegeto Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In God's Hands Posts: 9,396 Rep Power: 37	Re: Ultimate Gohan vs. fp Vegetto Well, the thing is, though we can't get anything solid on base Vegetto's powers by only using the manga, it's nearly certain that the anime's interpretation of that is way off. It is, in the end, a matter of opinion whether Vegetto in his base form is weaker or stronger than Chou Gohan. However, we can atleast make a rough estimate of his power based on our interpretation of Super Vegetto's strength in contrast to Gohan Buu's, and the multiplication factor at that point in the series. However, that brings in more opinions.....I just chose one that I found I could justify and went with it. __________________

07-28-2006	#47 (permalink)
Beyonder (4) Turtle School Disciple Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 29 Rep Power: 0	Re: Ultimate Gohan vs. fp Vegetto For me, the SSJ incresse was barrely used to make the differance between Bejiito and Boo. It´s not really stated if he was SSJ or SSJ2, you can only speculate by that. When it comes to abosorbation I think Boo worked the same way as Seru did. Seru wanted the Jinzoningen´s because their power would be in Seru permamently. The life force he absorbed, was teporarly -- It would go away when the people´s which life-spirit was sucked awayfrom would die. And since they don´t feed inside Seru it would just last a couple of day´s. The Jinzoningen´s wouldent die inside Seru since their power source was unlimited. That´s why Seru wanted to absorb them. -- And as seen there it wasent just a simple power addition, it brought Seru to a whole new level. Boo works the same way, when the people inside him die, so does it´s part of boosting. The only reason he stayed Fat for that long was because Kaioshin can live for very long (stated by Elder Kaioshin). This is why Boo´s power magnituded, after absorbing Gotenkusu. The rivality boost in fusing is probobly the most intresting thing, we don´t know exactly how much more power you get. The thing that SSJ Bejiito was superior to Boo in the first place stunned me. And as shown by the Kiri-scale; [Speculation] - The SSJ incresse give less of an incresse the more base power you get. By that I would say that the Super state didn´t give that much of a boost. And since Boo´s powers magnitude like Seru´s, I´d say that Bejiito would have good chanses of beating Gohan. Thank you. __________________ Classic Beyonder

07-28-2006	#48 (permalink)
SS2 Vegeto Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In God's Hands Posts: 9,396 Rep Power: 37	Re: Ultimate Gohan vs. fp Vegetto Well, I've actually long disagreed with Kiri's theory on transformations....but that's something completely open to speculation. We do know, however that Vegetto was only a super saiyan, much thanks to Akira Toriyama's concept art, and whoever got their hands on it. __________________

07-28-2006	#51 (permalink)
Arros Bleach Ranked (20) Captain Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NC, USA Posts: 1,433 Rep Power: 15	Re: Ultimate Gohan vs. fp Vegetto Well since we don't know how strong Base Vegito is, this debate will most likely stand at a stalemate! People will just have their oppinion __________________ Kenpachi is the most badass character ever. He's the kind of guy who would write his own name in the Death Note and then procede to beat the crap out of Yagami with it.

07-28-2006	#52 (permalink)
SS2 Vegeto Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In God's Hands Posts: 9,396 Rep Power: 37	Re: Ultimate Gohan vs. fp Vegetto Yeah, that's basically it. Just a lot of rationalizing and speculation. __________________

07-31-2006	#54 (permalink)
SS2 Vegeto Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In God's Hands Posts: 9,396 Rep Power: 37	Re: Ultimate Gohan vs. fp Vegetto Sure you can.....if my theory is correct, it would basically prove it.....by any logic, he's no where near Super Vegetto, doesn't even approach Buu's absorbtions, and is considerably weaker than Chou Gohan....however....that was about my interpretation of the transformation factor. Super Saiyan 4 doesn't have anything to do with this. I'm using my theory to justify my take on Chou Gohan's power, as compared to Vegetto in his base form. Then again, there's always the chance that the transformation factor is different for fusions, meaning my theory could never be anything more than a theory. __________________

07-31-2006	#55 (permalink)
Beyonder (4) Turtle School Disciple Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 29 Rep Power: 0	Re: Ultimate Gohan vs. fp Vegetto There are two ways you can see it: Chou Gohan is stronger than Gokou ever could be. Or; chibi Gokou owned Seru and Fruiza (about SSJ2 level) -- which would put him over the SSJ2´s and probobly above Gotenkusu. chibi Gokou > Gotenkusu (Pre-RoTS) chibi Gokou ~ Gotenkusu (Post-RoTS) SSJ3 chibi Gokou ~ SSJ3 Gotenkusu SSJ Gokou (adult) = Shin Bebi (~ chou Gohan) >> SSJ3 chibi Gokou SSJ4 is in adult form. So add some power to that and you have SSJ4 Gokou. __________________ Classic Beyonder

07-31-2006	#56 (permalink)
SS2 Vegeto Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In God's Hands Posts: 9,396 Rep Power: 37	Re: Ultimate Gohan vs. fp Vegetto Even in his adult form, SSJ Goku can't be stronger than his own SSJ3 form, regardless of whether or not he's in the form of a child. I also highly doubt that any villain other than Omega Shenron is stronger than Chou Gohan. __________________

08-16-2006	#60 (permalink)
JerrodDRagon (23) Final Warrior Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: TO Posts: 2,722 Blog Entries: 2 Rep Power: 7	Re: Ultimate Gohan vs. fp Vegetto No way SS4 goku was only twice as strong as Gotenks or Gohan. But back on subject Vegetto kicked Gohan buu's ass, Buu had Piccolo, Gotens, Trunks, and Gohan in him. While Gohan could only beat Piccolo buu (Piccolo, trunks and Gotens) Vegetto is like the most powerful character in DBZ! __________________ http://www.myspace.com/jerroddragon89 ^Request me as a Friend and Well Chat it up (just put on the request MFG, so I know its not spam)