JerrodDRagon

Yes and that.

Gohan was never as good as of a fighter as goku.

I think Gohan is one of the worst fighters the onlt reason he wins battles is becuase of his strenght (just like Brolly)

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The Speed Phantom

Don't even compare Gohan to Brolli. Gohan isn't a mindless, insane lunatic who should be isolated and locked up in an asylum.

Secondly, none of Goku's "battle experience" is going to save him from Gohan. Gohan has the raw power, and that's all that is needed to give Gohan the edge.

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ixidor

Yes chibi kiriyama, but when he made this statement, he was only thinking in his ssj level, that's why he put himself at the same level as vegeta (his ssj3 is far stronger thin vegeta's ssj2),and remember that he said that, and after that, he said to vegeta to fuse with him. And before he made this statement, vegeta said that, just after they un-fuse, that they could defeat boo after took everybody else from inside boo, and yet, goku didn't said no, he just said that "ok, but if we don't find them?". So, first he said yes, then he said no. How we can get from here? Well:

1) goku say this and then starts anoyng vegeta to fuse (not to use the potara, to fuse) with him.

2) Goku didn't want to use his ssj3 level. Not even agaisnt fat boo he wanted to use this level, and he was dead. When he was inside super boo, he was alive.

3) After goku stated that they couldn't beat super boo, he appear. Then, goku siad again they couldn't defeat him. However, and this is funny, both vegeta and goku power up to SSJ! goku not even dare to power up to ssj3 against super boo! As i said, goku had no intention to use his ssj3.

4) When kid boo prepare himself to blast the earth, again, goku said that "we can't dodge that!", so, he is, again, putting himself and vegeta at the same level, We all now that goku is stronger then kid boo at ssj3, and even then, he prefers to not power up to ssj3 in oder to dodge that blast and save the earth.

5) He was not even at fullpower against fat boo, as piccolo stated, and even then, he was terrible tired, and he was using energy from the afterlife.

6) Goku even stated this to vegeta, he said to him that ssj3 was just to extreme situations when vegeta was piss of because goku hadn't use his ssj3 against him.

With all this, the fact that boo was ineed gotten strong when he was transforming to buff boo, and tehn, when he was becoming kid boo, goku was even more scare about him, the fact that vegeta saw everything in the afterlfe and even then, he said that ony goku could defeat kid boo and that he was the number one, and to finish, the fact that gohan's energy wasn't enough to kill kid boo and the fact that goku said he didn't want to kill fat boo because he wanted the kids to do it (and don't forget that gohan was a kid fo rhim, even if he was probably just talking about goten and trunks), i guess i can correctly say that goku is stronger then gohan.

Vegeto

I agree ... goku in the majin buu / fusion /kid buu saga is stronger than Gohan .After 10 years... by the end of dbz the difference in there powers must be enorm .

The Chibi Kiriyama

Umm...no? He said both him AND Vegeta wouldn't be able to beat Majin Boo II, and this is after he exhibited the ability to go SS Level 3 in a flash. With Majin Boo he knew that (had he kept the state) SS Level 3 could have beaten him if he gave it his all. That's a huge difference. And Goku never said he was having problems killing Majin Boo at full effort until the chi depletion was evident. Up until his chi started draining without control he was certain SS Level 3 could match Majin Boo's power due to his powerdown from Majin Boo II.

If you were moments away from fighting someone who could kill you in an instant you'd want the biggest guns behind you, correct? Goku states that the Potara fusion would have annihilated Boo in his most powerful state. If they fused and fought Majin Boo II, Goku and Vegeta as Vegeto would have ended Boo's threat.

That's never stated. Goku and Vegeta briefly fight Boo to no avail not because Goku wanted to but because Vegeta wouldn't fuse with him. Given the fact that Goku knows Majin Boo III (Ultimate Gohan Prime) is immensely stronger than what he considered to be impossible to defeat before, going SS Level 3 would be fruitless. It's like gauging a heavyweight champion with the body of a welterweight. Once you know the force behind the fist, things come into perspective and the hopelessness clarifies itself.

Read my response above. Goku and Vegeta were trying to avoid getting abashingly murdered by Boo. Goku knew fusion would beat Boo but Vegeta continued his prideful nonchalance. If you notice Goku only puts in effort on the part of survival and not to directly combat Boo. If he had the outcome would have been even worse than if he had to fight Majin Boo III (Super Gotenks Prime).

Do you think Goku could dodge a planetary explosion? Even with teleportation on his side had Kaio-shin not saved him Goku would have been a dead man, and he barely got the key players out of that final blast. You also seem to be forgetting that it doesn't matter if you can go Super Saiyan Level 999 if you can't breathe in space.

5) He was not even at fullpower against fat boo, as piccolo stated, and even then, he was terrible tired, and he was using energy from the afterlife.

Neitehr was Majin Boo. Majin Boo was completely relaxed and not near the amount of anger denoted before. All he ever does is match Goku (who was warming up as well). What we see in that fight is two fighters going at it for maybe 30 seconds in a warm-up match. And no- Goku wasn't tired. Goku only started to show fatigue when he went back to normal.

That's why he automatically flared it up when Majin Boo III almost clobbered him. He didn't use it against Majin Boo III once Gohan was lost because Boo was even stronger than before and directly fighting him would have been suicide, even if he miraculously was near Ultimate Gohan's power (which he wasn't).

Why do you try to prove off-topic items in a thread based on gauging a confrontation between Goku and Gohan? The other part of your post is sensible, but please don't go into a tangent. To top it off I've already drilled it in before as to why that point of view is flawed.

JerrodDRagon

When he fought cell he was.



Goku has beaten many bad guys stronger than him,he is the best fighter. PERIOD

Maybe Gohan is stronger at the end of Z but Goku could take out Gohan if they fought at the end of Z.

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Prince Vegeta

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The Chibi Kiriyama

You should know how much people here love to presume Goku's training on a planet 1/100'th of the gravity in the gravity chamber somehow made him 5 times stronger than Gohan, and that Gohan just sat and stared at walls while losing his power dramatically. You know, because that makes loads of sense.

[:|]

ixidor

Right.

1) Gohan couldn't fight kid boo

2) Goku could

3) When kid boo became ubuu, he wanted to fight with him, not against gohan, and he said that he wanted to train ubuu in order to fight him. He even said to vegeta, after vegeta ask him why he would fight in the budokai: "because there are an incredible strong fighter that will enter in the budokai"

Gohan many times stronger? I just have an answer to this: lol

The Mighty Goku

Lets see now....

Saiyan Saga: Goku

Frieza Saga: Goku

Cell Saga: Gohan

Buu Saga: Gohan

Now for End Of Z....The entire Z timeline takes up about 24 years. 10 of those years are spent in the time between the Buu Saga and End Of Z. Now Goku STATES after Buu that he is going to train and improve his skills to get stronger. He says this because he wants to prepare for Uub. So now we know that Goku is training. We see Gohan has settled down and formed a family, and he is even wearing glasses. Its safe to assume that Gohan has not trained seeing as how he has even stated that he does not like to fight. Now, after seeing Goku's improvement from Cell to Buu...and thats 7 years. 10 years most have made him a whole lot stronger. And seeing as how Gohan so much weaker in 7 years, 10 years would make him even weaker. So its safe to say that at the end of the day Goku was the strongest. Not too mention, why would Goku want to train Uub to defend the earth if Gohan was stronger than Goku.....think about that.

End Of Z: Goku

GT: Goku

The Winner is....Goku.

The Chibi Kiriyama

Not necessarily. Goku stops experiencing massive zenkais around the beginning of the Buu Saga. If he still had strength to tap into, training wouldn't bring up a tremendous amount of power to close the gap between him and Gohan. Could he have trained off the weariness he had in the SS3 state? Perhaps. Could he have closed the massive gap by 'training'? Unlikely.

When Gohan has his latent power tapped, he no longer experiences power fluctuations. In laymen's terms, his power no longer goes up from zenkais or down through inactivity. It is the same amount of power he had when fighting the new Buu- nothing more, nothing less.

Gohan was immensely strong, yet content with living out the rest of his life peacefully. Uub, on the other hand, had the latent power of a Buu within him that Goku had fought a worthy battle with. On top of that Uub was untrained. The situation was practically screaming 'opportunity' for a Saiyan who loves to fight. On one hand, he was training someone who would actively protect the Earth unlike Gohan. On the other hand, he was training his former foe to be as strong as he was and to possibly surpass him in power. For Goku, Uub was a win-win scenario.

GT's non-canon. While the matchup does stipulate that this is Goku, unless it says 'SS4 Goku' non-canon material cannot be used to prove such.

Prince Vegeta

Well yes and no. Yes to the fact that Son Goku training Oob did not mean that either Oob or Son Goku were the strongest warriors on Earth. However, no to the fact that Son Goku did not intend to train Oob in order to make him "Earth's protector" as so many people think. Allow me to explain:

"Quote from Dragonball Manga volume 26"

Son Goku (Talking to Oob): "Don't be shy, pretty soon you'll be the one protecting the Earth." (Page 241)

Vegeta: Heh heh, Kakarrot, I know you too well. This isn't about protecting the Earth. (Page 242)

Son Goku: Oob, when your trainings complete... Promise to fight me. (Page 242 the panel right next to Vegeta's statement)

So as you can see, Son Goku's plan wasn't to make Oob Earth's protector. But rather he wanted to fight Oob one final time.

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The Mighty Goku

What makes you think that Goku stops receiveing zenkais, just because getting knocked from Vegeta "supposedly" did not make him stronger......He got knocked out, instead of beaten to a bloody pulp, big difference. Saiyans get stronger from "near death" not just by being knocked out. And Goku did not receive a zenkai after Kid Buu either, because his Ki was bolted up from the dragon, he had his wounds healed, but he was still fine. Goku still receives zenkais and he still gets stronger...if not, then why would he want to train after Buu.

That is an assumption on your part, Gohan being taken above his limits in his "current state" does not mean he can't get any weaker, and it does not mean he can't get stronger. Gohan was taken above his limits in his current condition, that was his limits that his body could endure at that time. Z warriors don't have "caps" on their powerlevels, they can keep training to get stronger. So saying that Goku becoming stronger than Gohan is a plot hole in GT is just plain silly. It was never stated that hybrids have the most potential, nor is the word POTENTIAL ever used once in the DBZ manga. Hybrids were stated to have incredible hidden powers. Thats It. And the whole "power fluctuating", that was never mention...EVER. So I don't buy that, cuz that was never stated either.

But if Gohan never got weaker like you said, then why would Goku even have to train Buu. We all know that Goku wanted to have a challenge, but he still wanted Uub to be the new protector, so why would he want that if Gohan was the strongest. Gohan isn't going to sit on his butt if someone attacks the earth, he will take action.

I believe Goku was the strongest at the End Of Z. But thats my opinion, some believe Gohan was the strongest at the End Of Z. Akira-Sensei left it open to debate, there are facts on both sides to defend each side.

The Chibi Kiriyama

Let me explain a zenkai then- zenkais are not magic methods that make the user marginally stronger. The proper term would rather be a 'auto-evolution'. The zenkai we see him experience in the Freeza Saga just from a beatdown that pales in comparison to what Vegeta experienced is massive- it makes him go from inferior to Captain Ginyu to having the ability to fight Freeza's true form on equal grounds. Given this, nothing we see in the Cell Saga constitutes as a zenkai, unless you really want to say Goku grew in power enough from his beatdown from No. 19 to make him not being tremendously afraid of Cell's incomplete form as he was at the new Buu possible (which I'm not going to refute, as that particular portion is never really defined as viral decomposition or physical damage). This said, in no way does it mean that Goku cannot get any stronger. I am stating that the possibility is minute that his body receives anything that post-Freeza would be considered a zenkai. He can definitely get stronger through training, but the amount of power his body will tap into through his auto-evolutionary mechanism is no longer meriting the term 'zenkai'.

Latent power is different than potential. Latent power is the power that lays untapped in a fighter's body. Potential is the possibility that they could tap into said power. Neither the former Kaio-shin nor the Great Elder of Namek tapped into Gohan's potential. They tapped into his latent (dormant) power and allowed him better control of it. You are correct in saying that it is never stated that Gohan cannot keep on getting stronger, but it takes simple logical inference to realize that it was inferred- Gohan was beaten so badly that Buu (Gotenks Prime) was only moments away from annihilating him. Dende then heals him. For any Saiyan with power to still be tapped, this would mean a zenkai. But this is the line that Buu makes only two panels afterwards:

Majin Buu: Well, you're only back to your former ineptitude. You didn't get any stronger...you only prolonged your own suffering...

When one makes the simple inference without having it fed to them, this means that (Saiyan biology taken into account) the former Kaio-shin's power tap brought all of the latent power (not the potential to achieve it, the actual power itself) that Gohan could possibly have. Otherwise his beatdown would have incurred such a massive zenkai, which I discussed is an auto-evolution to improve anyone with Saiyan biology, and Gohan would have been noticeably stronger. All this taken into account, the Gohan we see in glasses and slacks is the same one who fought Buu. There is no dip in power; hence my inference that there would not be a power fluctuation in tandem.

As I said in my previous post, it's not that Gohan will sit on his laurels. It's that Goku has two things going for making Uub the protector of the Earth- creating an active hero who isn't mired in the peaceful life and won't become complacent while basically breeding his ultimate challenge. Vegeta realized that Goku's offer wasn't selfless at all:

Vegeta: Heh, heh...Kakarot, I know you too well...this isn't about protecting the Earth!

Feel free to refute it, but Goku's next statement makes Vegeta's assumption set in stone:

Son Goku: Oob, when you're training's complete...promise to fight me!

Oob: Uh...sure...

Son Goku: I've been waiting years for this!

The dialogue speaks for itself; the only reason I even delve into Goku training Uub for anything outside of an ulterior motive is because I'd rather adhere to Toriyama's belief that he does things kindheartedly.

Prince Vegeta

Aah I see. Well the reason I made my post was because many people didn't know that Son Goku's primary purpose was to have a rematch with Oob (A rematch of his fight with Chibi Boo). Apparently you weren't one of those people.

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