Tien is under a million. - Page 4

Dupe of USSJed · 09-06-2008

The Predator VS Hero argument has degenerated into miles and miles of

Something I have tried my hardest to keep to a minimum. So I am just going to ignore it until it improves. I know I am being a sort of hypocrit here, but I find it impossible to make sense of their argument after the first 2 posts.

Now then, I have endevoured to sift through the shiet and find the posts directed at me. Please mark them somehow in the future. Anyway, I am going to try and organise my post to make it more readable.

About Tiens Kikoho VS Buu

Quote:

I thought it was aimed at Ultimate Gohan? Can someone post a scan to clarify this?

Pix attached(Its really awful quality. Basically Buu stalls Gohan then fires at Dende and Hercule, to be stopped by Tien)

Result: Hero's argument that Tien must have gotten x500 stronger from CG to Buu Saga in order to stop Buu's blast is disproven. The blast was directed at two characters with a combined power level in the double digits, meaning the blast is allmost certainly going to be super weak.

About the time difference for Goku and Roshi to grab the holy water

Quote:

It was stated somewhere that it was when Roshi was teenager. And then in the King Piccolo saga it said that Roshi was taught under his 'master'(who taught him the mafuba) in his youth.

So I would assume he hadn't reached the power he was at in Dragon Ball.

I'd like a quote for that

Result: None

About the subject Hero keeps avoiding, and yet again has failed to answer. The subject of how the Kikoho cannot possibly be x50, as only the godly SSJ can do that, ignoring the fact that the 'mere techique' taught by King Kai got Goku to x20

Quote:

USSJed
Well I must have missed it, kindly quote your answers to both. I think your avoiding facing the fact that a 'mere techique' taught by the craptastic King Kai could get half as strong as your precious super saiyan, which would mean the Kikoho could indeed be x50 and not be outrageous

Quote:

Hero
What? All I said was that I made it clear you ignored my point.

Now seriously hero, I have been waiting for this answer since page one, answer it or admit you are wrong. I want an explanation of how Kaioken can be x20 but Kikoho could not possibly ever in your wildest dreams reach x50, that its so ridiculous that it might as well be x10,000,000,000

Result: Still waiting for the answer, stop answering with 'You missed my point' because I don't give a shit about that, I want you to answer my post and stop stalling.

About Goku's training between DB and DBZ

Quote:

Hero
I think something was said at the end of DB. I'll check later.

Alrighty then

Result: Still waiting for a quote.

About how the Kikoho is 'obviously' different from any other energy attack

Quote:

Hero
1) Roshi practically states its a different type of attack.
2) It takes only a few seconds to charge.
3) It's barely a beam.
4) The Gotenks buu stuff, which may or may not be true, but if it is I think that basically shoots this Tien tri beam stuff away for good.

1. Quote needed
2,3. Pathetic arguments that hold no weight here.
4. No idea what you are referring to. If its what I think it is, it has been answered in this post already and so this argument is invalid.

So yeah, Ideally I should have done something like this from the start, whilst keeping all posts about a certain subject in Spoiler Tags so someone could look through them and see a coherant argument, because seriously no one will learn anything otherwise and we wont come to any sort of conclusion.

See you in 4 days

Attached Images

dfsdfsdfsdfsdf.gif (88.4 KB, 6 views)

__________________

Is Tien fucking strong? Damn right he is.

http://anime.myfavoritegames.com/ani...hs-humans.html

SSJ3 Gotenks kicks ass btw.

Hero · 09-06-2008

So you're done posting for 4 days now?

And sorry, I didn't realize you wanted an answer for the Kikoho stuff, I'll do my counter arguments for you two in a few minutes.

The Metallica album I've been waiting 2 years for just downloaded so...kinda preocupied with that xD

Hero · 09-06-2008

the predator:

USSJed:

Quote:

Pix attached(Its really awful quality. Basically Buu stalls Gohan then fires at Dende and Hercule, to be stopped by Tien)

Hmm, I see. Alright, you got me there.

Of course, there's another fact here. Tien used kikoho like ten times. So even if Tien were to have a 50x multiplier(which is using illogical power levels to obtain), it would really be a 500x multiplier if he goes all out. You're telling me that that is reasonable?

The second highest attack multiplier I believe is Goku's kamehameha in the Raditz saga, and that wasn't even 3x.

Quote:

I'd like a quote for that

Volume 12, Page 43: "Even younger, I was no match for him. Nor was Tsuru Senin. Not even our master, Lord Mutaito. But the master could not bear to allow Piccolo to twist and turn this world according to his whim...and so he devised a great attack!"

All it says is younger, so I guess you could interpret that as you will.

Quote:

Now seriously hero, I have been waiting for this answer since page one, answer it or admit you are wrong. I want an explanation of how Kaioken can be x20 but Kikoho could not possibly ever in your wildest dreams reach x50, that its so ridiculous that it might as well be x10,000,000,000

Well, as I explained earlier the multiplier would actually be 500x. So don't even try to tell me this is reasonable(I think I'll have a poll for this actually).

As for the kaioken, just because its a technique doesn't make it like the KiKoHo. That's like comparing the Taiyoken to it because they're both 'techniques'. And the sole purpose of the Kaioken was pushing the body beyond its limits, while the KiKoHo simply had a ton of power, but was dangerous to one who used it. Plus, 20x is not even half of 50x, or even a tenth of 500x.

Quote:

Alrighty then

Volume 16, Page 203: "Train hard, Piccolo! Get as strong as you can...and I'm gonna to pass that strength-by one full level!"

Quote:

1. Quote needed

He says that it has the potential to kill the one who uses it, he never mentions this about any other attack.

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3. Hunter x Hunter
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Dragon Ball/Z Power Levels

~~JC#1~~ · 09-06-2008

I am not a fanboy, I actually really hate Tien, but he's definitely over 1million, all I'm gonna say

Hero · 09-07-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC#1

I am not a fanboy, I actually really hate Tien, but he's definitely over 1million, all I'm gonna say

No one cares. Unless you plan on supporting your point, this post is meaningless.

the predator · 09-08-2008

Sorry I haven't been around Hero, but I'm not about to sacrifice a weekend of fun for some argument about DBZ (I think you 'd agree with me there if you were smart ;) )

Right back to business, listen I CAN answer to your responses to my previous posts but it would get us no where. We'd just go on and on and on and we'd deviate from the main point (as we're already doing) and then forget what the hell we were talking about in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the predator

ei hero are you going to reply or not? I have to leave pretty soon.

Anyways forget the other shit here are my core beliefs, if you agree with this then this is over:

Tien is equal to or better than Goku

IF:

They both undergo the same training circumstances for equal periods of time
Goku doesn't have Kaioken
Goku doesn't have zenkai
Goku doesn't have SSJ

Thus Tien's PL at the end of Z is equal to/or slightly better than Goku (minus Kaioken/zenkai/SSJ/RoSaT/Gravitron training/Otherworld training) and I believe that's over a million.

I'd rather you answer this post because here I think we'd be able to settle this much faster (concerning you and me, 'cause Jed is another story)

Hero · 09-08-2008

Actually I don't think so. Goku(weights) and Tien were just about equal at the 23rd Budokai, yet 5 years later Goku is 84 points ahead.

And without those things I doubt Goku would've been over a million tbh. Without his zenkais he would be very far behind.

the predator · 09-09-2008

Fine, that's fair enough I don't agree with you but I respect your opinion. This is now officially over. I hope Jed has some proof to nuke you though!! hehe j/k

Dupe of USSJed · 09-11-2008

About 'x500' for the Kikoho

Quote:

Hero
Of course, there's another fact here. Tien used kikoho like ten times. So even if Tien were to have a 50x multiplier(which is using illogical power levels to obtain), it would really be a 500x multiplier if he goes all out. You're telling me that that is reasonable?

If Goku went Kaiokenx10 ten times would it actually be x100? No, its x10 just being used ten seperate times. And I believe Goku has the stamina to turn SSJ ten times in quick succession, so why not Tien and the Kikoho?

About Multipliers

Quote:

Hero
The second highest attack multiplier I believe is Goku's kamehameha in the Raditz saga, and that wasn't even 3x.

Yeah, and the Kamehameha is stated to be 'dogs piss' in comparison to the Kikoho. That means the Kikoho is much stronger. How much stronger is up to you, if you want to believe that the Kikoho is 3333x stronger than the Kamehameha be my guest, although that is the same as using the a quote such as 'Wow, Piccolo has become stronger than all the Saiyans!' to mean Piccolo is x10,000 stronger than Goku and Vegeta. It can't be proven false but its certainly a stupid assumption to make.

About the time difference in grabbing the Holy Water

Quote:

Volume 12, Page 43: "Even younger, I was no match for him. Nor was Tsuru Senin. Not even our master, Lord Mutaito. But the master could not bear to allow Piccolo to twist and turn this world according to his whim...and so he devised a great attack!"

All it says is younger, so I guess you could interpret that as you will.

The way he says it, 'Even younger...' leads me to believe Roshi was stronger when he was younger. I don't remember what Goku's power was compared to Roshi's at that time though.

About Goku's training compared to Tiens(?)

Quote:

Volume 16, Page 203: "Train hard, Piccolo! Get as strong as you can...and I'm gonna to pass that strength-by one full level!"

Gah, I guess your right about that. Does Piccolo make a mention of how hard he trained between DB and Z? And did Goku get a Zenkai from fighting Piccolo?

SSJ4 Vegito · 09-11-2008

A comparison Roshi made between his and Goku's Power he said "I have a feeling he may have surpassed me already"- this was before Goku got serious and fought Tien after Tien uses his "Volley-Ball play" on Goku, Goku says he can go all-out Goku then says he's been using his "Tournament" level power and now he'll use his "Battle" level and then he gives Tien a pounding and Roshi is astonished when Goku said he would was using his "Tournament level power" basically he thought Goku had surpassed him with that, but then since Goku had a whole other level to his power I'd say Goku is a good margin above Roshi.

Evil Vegeta · 09-11-2008

Quote:

Gah, I guess your right about that. Does Piccolo make a mention of how hard he trained between DB and Z? And did Goku get a Zenkai from fighting Piccolo?

Goku just stated that the both of them have been training a whole lot before they took on Raditz after removing their weights.

I think Goku did increase after fighting Piccolo.

Hero · 09-11-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by USSJed

About 'x500' for the Kikoho

If Goku went Kaiokenx10 ten times would it actually be x100? No, its x10 just being used ten seperate times. And I believe Goku has the stamina to turn SSJ ten times in quick succession, so why not Tien and the Kikoho?

You can't control the amount of power you put into Kaioken and SSJ, but you can do this with the kikoho(stated).

About Multipliers

Quote:

Yeah, and the Kamehameha is stated to be 'dogs piss' in comparison to the Kikoho. That means the Kikoho is much stronger. How much stronger is up to you, if you want to believe that the Kikoho is 3333x stronger than the Kamehameha be my guest, although that is the same as using the a quote such as 'Wow, Piccolo has become stronger than all the Saiyans!' to mean Piccolo is x10,000 stronger than Goku and Vegeta. It can't be proven false but its certainly a stupid assumption to make.

1) Kamehameha was never stated to be weak compared to the KiKoHo
2) You can easily see that Kamicollo(I assume this is who you are refferring to) wasn't 10,000 times stronger than all of the Saiyans...

09-06-2008	#47 (permalink)
Hero (24) Super Saiyan 4 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: USA Posts: 3,166 Rep Power: 135	Re: Tien is under a million. So you're done posting for 4 days now? And sorry, I didn't realize you wanted an answer for the Kikoho stuff, I'll do my counter arguments for you two in a few minutes. The Metallica album I've been waiting 2 years for just downloaded so...kinda preocupied with that xD __________________ Top 5 Manga: 1. Dragon Ball 2. One Piece 3. Hunter x Hunter 4. Vagabond 5. Hikaru No Go Dragon Ball/Z Power Levels

09-06-2008	#49 (permalink)
~~JC#1~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,806 Rep Power: 0	Re: Tien is under a million. I am not a fanboy, I actually really hate Tien, but he's definitely over 1million, all I'm gonna say

09-08-2008	#52 (permalink)
Hero (24) Super Saiyan 4 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: USA Posts: 3,166 Rep Power: 135	Re: Tien is under a million. Actually I don't think so. Goku(weights) and Tien were just about equal at the 23rd Budokai, yet 5 years later Goku is 84 points ahead. And without those things I doubt Goku would've been over a million tbh. Without his zenkais he would be very far behind. __________________ Top 5 Manga: 1. Dragon Ball 2. One Piece 3. Hunter x Hunter 4. Vagabond 5. Hikaru No Go Dragon Ball/Z Power Levels

09-09-2008	#53 (permalink)
the predator (21) Majin Warrior Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,692 Rep Power: 14	Re: Tien is under a million. Fine, that's fair enough I don't agree with you but I respect your opinion. This is now officially over. I hope Jed has some proof to nuke you though!! hehe j/k

09-11-2008	#55 (permalink)
SSJ4 Vegito (25) Kami of Earth Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,433 Rep Power: 134	Re: Tien is under a million. A comparison Roshi made between his and Goku's Power he said "I have a feeling he may have surpassed me already"- this was before Goku got serious and fought Tien after Tien uses his "Volley-Ball play" on Goku, Goku says he can go all-out Goku then says he's been using his "Tournament" level power and now he'll use his "Battle" level and then he gives Tien a pounding and Roshi is astonished when Goku said he would was using his "Tournament level power" basically he thought Goku had surpassed him with that, but then since Goku had a whole other level to his power I'd say Goku is a good margin above Roshi. __________________ 90% of DragonBall fans detest DragonBall GT If you're one of the 10% of fans who actually like GT, post this in your signature. "If everything God did made sense he wouldn't be 'God" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4afhQK_sXgQ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAi7ZDY2q4s- Dead sea scrolls http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU_rTX23V7Q for fellow Christians

09-12-2008	#58 (permalink)
Dupe of USSJed (28) Lord of Worlds Join Date: May 2008 Location: drawing. Im kinda the best drawer in my class , not to brag or anything Posts: 7,539 Rep Power: 195 <