Originally Posted by USSJed

I think that its possible for the humans to be higher than 20,000 post King Kai.

Originally Posted by hero_764

Jed are you going to counter my arguments?

And vicdmx, you did read my post right?

Originally Posted by USSJed

I don't know what you are talking about. You said Tien could learn the Kamehameha because it was just an enlarged Dodonpa. So I countered by saying the Kikoho is just an enlarged Kamehamha. I don't see whats so wrong with my comparison, care to enlighten me?

Originally Posted by hero_764

Look, I don't care if you disagree with it, as long as you make an effort to explain your reasonings.

And its not really opinions. I did use a bunch of facts from Dragon Ball to prove my point.

Plus, he manages to stop one of Gotenks Buu's attacks later on. He would have to get what? Like 500x stronger in 7 years?

Originally Posted by hero_764

Alright kiddies, today I will be discussing why Tien is not as high as many of you seem to think, and that his power level is actually under 1,000,000. Many of you may disagree with me at first, but over time hopefully you will learn to accept the fact that your favorite men of Dragon Ball are nothing but weak ass humans. Why you assume that they have to be on par with Super Saiyans, simply because of the fact they were in the same show as them, without any proof what so ever, really baffles me. Now, this thread will focus mainly on Tien, but Krillin and Yamcha are also obviously under 1,000,000, and do follow the same principals.

First, we will start with countering the most common arguments used by fanboys of the humans. The ones that relate specifically to Tien include:
1.He must be in the millions to have a reasonable Ki Ko Ho multiplier.
2.Piccolo gained 5x his power level by self training, this is undeniable proof that Tien got exactly the same increase.
3.Tien said he wanted harder training, obviously this means he was 90,000 after King Kai’s training.
4.Tien trains serious…therefore he manages to reach one million.
5.Tien gained more at Kami’s, therefore he gets more out of training than Goku.

1: He must be in the millions eh? Bullshit. Obviously he was weaker than the Base Saiyans for obvious reasons, so this automatically puts him below what? 9,000,000 or so? Keep in mind this is ignoring any and all logic concerning his training increases. So…Semi Perfect Cell is generally agreed to be around a billion or so when suppressed. That’s a multiplier of 111x. You really think that that’s reasonable? Nonsense. Not even a Saiyan transformation at this point could get you that, some mere attack is not going to have this much power. 111x is just as ridiculous as 10,000x. Even if we were to drop Semi Cell down to 500,000,000 it would still yield around a 50x increase. Tien’s no Super Saiyan, so I don’t see why that’s logical. If you could gain that much power through attacks, what’s the point of transforming? The idea of a multiplier for the KiKoHo is a plothole in itself, and should not try to be rationalized, or even used as proof of Tien’s power. He would have to be at around 100 million at the very least for this to make the slightest bit of sense.

2: This one is easy to disprove. First of all, Piccolo was not self training. He trained with Gohan for 6 months. Gohan has been shown to increase his power when in harm’s way(shown when Piccolo through him against the cliff) or if Piccolo ever pissed him off. He would likely provide a great workout for Piccolo, and he would be much more accustomed to fighting after his 6 months of wilderness. So no, this is not self training evidence. Not even close.

3: A lot of you guys are so focused on the fact that ‘King Kai said he would train them harder.’ When in reality, this never happened. All he stated was that they wanted harder training than Goku. This does not mean in the slightest that they will automatically have double his training effectiveness. The other thing that pisses me off about this is that you assume every single fucking training runs on a multiplier. When Goku was ‘over 8,000’ King Kai stated that he had surpassed him in every way except comedy. Logically, the humans would top out at this as well. Of course, we do have to take into account that Yamcha was there for much of the time, so he would indeed increase the effectiveness of the training for Tien and Chaozu. Chaozu was too weak to count as a sparring partner for reasons I have discussed in another thread(I will quote the post if you want). So this may indeed double the effectiveness. But still, this would only merit power levels of around 20k or so. Nothing drastic like this 90k bullshit you guys come up with.

4: This isn’t really an argument. Everyone in Dragon Ball trained seriously(with the exception of Yajirobe) so this doesn’ t merit a higher increase .

5: Another easy one to disprove. You forget that when Goku went to Kami’s to train, he had no one to partner train with. Once he surpassed Mr. Popo(which he could’ve done in like a week for all we know) he really had no one else to help he get any further. Tien had Yamcha, Chaozu(to an extent..), and Krillin who were constantly gaining power right along with him. They could continually spar evenly with each other. Yamcha and Krillin were surpassed, but this is just most likely due to the fact that Tien started higher.

Now for the fun part. Proving what Tien’s power level really was.

So we first start out with Tien at a power level of around 142. He had a slight advantage over Roshi(139), so that’s why I placed him there. After this he trains ‘hard/seriously/whatever’ for 3 years with Korin and gains about 1.5x his power level. How do I know? Well he couldn’t have reached 250 just yet, assuming that he did train in the 5 year gap. I think most people like to put him around 220. So that’s a 1.51x increase. Which is around 1.16x a year. Yes, not some random whole number like you seem to think, just 1.16x. And this could potentially be partner training with Yamcha and Krillin. For the sake of the argument we’ll assume he wasn’t. We can also assume that he surpassed Korin’s training regimen pretty quickly as well.
It has also been shown that the stronger you get, the harder it is to improve. Take Krillin for example. He gained around 2-3x his strength while training at Master Roshi’s the first time. Yet the second time he does, this time for three years, he barely gets even a 2x increase at most.
So, why do you think that in the Android saga, when Tien is in the thousands to start with, he gains 5x a year? Ridiculous to say the least. Some people do say that he incorporated King Kai’s style into his own, which would increase the effectiveness of his training. I don’t understand that though. The stuff King Kai taught them was most likely just workouts for power levels that aren’t even at 10,000 yet, so I doubt they would help someone who, by your logic, had reached a million. I agree that they would boost his training to an extent. Maybe a bit higher than 1.5x a year if you want to go by multipliers, but certainly not this 5x bullshit that some of you come up with.

Now, as you can hopefully see. Tien has no hope of every lasting even a second against a SSJ in battle, or even brushing the one million mark. Just because the Saiyans became overpowered doesn’t mean that you have to do the same for the humans. They were basically useless in fights after the Ginyu saga, so they have no reason really to be as high as you place them, other than to satisfy your fanboyism.