Do Saiyans get stronger than humans from training - Page 2

SSJ Ranulf · 09-02-2008

Then does it sound reasonably to say that, if we assume that Tien was 1,800 during the Saiyan saga, that we could say he reached at least 72,000 during the Trunks Saga?

I know that he's training was harder, and he had Yamcha and Chatzu to train with, but he was stronger, and Goku later said that the stronger you are, the harder it is to get stronger.

Now we don't know how much harder he trained, but if we assume that it counters the fact that he's stronger than Goku (I think it would have been more, but that's just me), he wasn't a mere 20,000-30,000, but over twice that.

Evil Vegeta · 09-02-2008

Well, 72,000 is a huge increase. I think he would be better around 30-40,000 at the most, since they seemed to have been more focused on seeing or learning about Goku's battle with Freeza then training.

However; there is no right or wrong answer, unless someone believes Tien reached 100,000 after Kaio's training. I just don't know how powerful they are after Kaio's, and it's kinda difficult to understand.

SSJ Ranulf · 09-02-2008

Right, after all, I'm pretty sure that every human power level is just a guess after the Namek saga. The last level we have for (almost) sure, is that Krillin had an advantage on Captain Ginyu in Goku's body, who was stated as 23,000.

So it's just a guess as to who's power is how high. I still would say around 70,000-80,000, but that's just me. I see no problem of putting Tien around 30,000 or 100,000. It could have logically been any of those.

Hero · 09-02-2008

I'd say he's around 20,000 at most in the Trunks saga.

SSJ Ranulf · 09-02-2008

Hero sir, might I ask you to tell me why you think his training was less effective than Goku's? Having no weights could easily knock a good amount off of his power, for certain, but getting roughly 10x (if you think Tien was 1800 or so) in twice the time Goku was there seems a little low to me. King Kaio said they would train harder, and he had the others to spar with, if that means anything. I think he would get about x20 per year, like Goku, as I stated before.

So, what facts/evidence/logic, do you have as to Tien getting a very low increase?

Tyrant · 09-02-2008

He just doesn't like humans.

Hero · 09-02-2008

King Kai never said he would train them harder, just that they wanted harder training.

When Goku was at 8,000 King Kai stated that there was no more he could teach him, and that he had surpassed him in everyway(except comedy).

So the majority of the increase is just due to the Gravity, which eventually would begin to feel like nothin. Training doesn't have a set multiplier like you seem to think.

Quote:

He just doesn't like humans.

nou

SSJ Ranulf · 09-02-2008

In my 6 months of lurking, I noticed that, but he's innocent until proven guilty in my book. He can take all the time he needs, get his facts strait, and present them calmly. I hope he has a good argument. What about you, Frieza, where to you think Tien got, or do you have no opinion?

Edit: I understand Hero, it looks like it's not just you don't like humans, like everyone thinks. I still think that Tien's around 70,000-80,000, but your opinion makes sense. It still seems a little low to me, but it is just a logical as what I've got.

Hero · 09-02-2008

Ranulf I already posted my argument.

edit:

Quote:

I still think that Tien's around 70,000-80,000, but your opinion makes sense. It still seems a little low to me, but it is just a logical as what I've got.

And this is based on what exactly?

SSJ Ranulf · 09-02-2008

Well, I'm going with King Kaio meaning 'You know all my techniques, save my great jokes.', and not 'I can't make you much stronger.' I also figure that, having Yamcha to train with would make Tien a bit stronger. Then you have the fact that Kaio may have trained them harder. Maybe not, but it's possible. So I figure Tien's 1,800, a common number for his Saiyan Saga power level, x20 x2 would be around 72,000. I woun't say your wrong, but this is what I think.

SSJ4 Vegito · 09-02-2008

Saiyans push themselves harder and that what their main advantage is their desire to fight, however Goku (Weights) was at 334 and Tien (250) at the beginning of DBZ. Back at the 23rd Budokai Tien was nearly equal to Goku (Weighted) so I'd say it's most likely true that Saiyans get bigger increases especially if they really push themselves then they'll get Zenkais.

SSJ Ranulf · 09-02-2008

That's valid as well. It's a wonder if Tien was at his full power, I've heard some people say he was, and some say he was not. Even if he was not, I don't think he would have gained 75 points. I think it's that Goku had weighted clothing is how he got some much further ahead of Tien. It is peculiar that Tien went from Goku's equal (when Goku was weighted) to a good bit weaker than him.

SSJ4 Vegito · 09-02-2008

Perhaps, although I think Tien, Krillin, Yamcha and Chaioutzu's increases were due to the face that they had training partners.

SSJ Ranulf · 09-02-2008

That is quite logical. It looks like a training partner is good for a large power increase. This might help my theory of Tien being in the 70,000-80,000 range. Goku, on most power level charts, didn't get a big increase by training with Kami. But When Tien, Yamcha, Krillin, and Chatzu train, they get much stronger. This is perhaps to due having training partners.

So in training with King Kaio, they logically would have gotten a lot stronger like before. If having someone to train with is so important, then it could have carried over to King Kaio's training. No reason for it not to.

**LegendarySSJ7** · 09-02-2008

Just because Goku's Saiyan, and that he receives auto-evolution augmentations (as well as eventually reaching the Super Saiyan forms that overtook everything on all accounts in my eyes, or at least, something along that nature), doesn't mean that humans can't gain immense progression. I think the reason why people say Goku would gain more progression from Kaiosama's training than Tenshinhan, Piccolo, Yamcha, or/and Chaozu is because Goku's battle power was much lower at the time that he arrived on Kaiosama's planet, which means that none of the humans could benefit as much at much higher battle powers.

And just before Piccolo was in contest with Freeza, Nail seemed rather impressed with the aura Piccolo projected. Again, with application and incentive that isn't frivolous, but devoted, I think the humans and Nameks can pull off some impressive feats (even if their eventual roofs aren't as high as the Saiyan's).

09-02-2008	#16 (permalink)
SSJ Ranulf (16) Master of Kaio-ken Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Gallia Posts: 567 Rep Power: 37	Re: Do Saiyans get stronger than humans from training Then does it sound reasonably to say that, if we assume that Tien was 1,800 during the Saiyan saga, that we could say he reached at least 72,000 during the Trunks Saga? I know that he's training was harder, and he had Yamcha and Chatzu to train with, but he was stronger, and Goku later said that the stronger you are, the harder it is to get stronger. Now we don't know how much harder he trained, but if we assume that it counters the fact that he's stronger than Goku (I think it would have been more, but that's just me), he wasn't a mere 20,000-30,000, but over twice that.

09-02-2008	#18 (permalink)
SSJ Ranulf (16) Master of Kaio-ken Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Gallia Posts: 567 Rep Power: 37	Re: Do Saiyans get stronger than humans from training Right, after all, I'm pretty sure that every human power level is just a guess after the Namek saga. The last level we have for (almost) sure, is that Krillin had an advantage on Captain Ginyu in Goku's body, who was stated as 23,000. So it's just a guess as to who's power is how high. I still would say around 70,000-80,000, but that's just me. I see no problem of putting Tien around 30,000 or 100,000. It could have logically been any of those.

09-02-2008	#19 (permalink)
Hero (24) Super Saiyan 4 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: USA Posts: 3,166 Rep Power: 135	Re: Do Saiyans get stronger than humans from training I'd say he's around 20,000 at most in the Trunks saga. __________________ Top 5 Manga: 1. Dragon Ball 2. One Piece 3. Hunter x Hunter 4. Vagabond 5. Hikaru No Go Dragon Ball/Z Power Levels

09-02-2008	#20 (permalink)
SSJ Ranulf (16) Master of Kaio-ken Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Gallia Posts: 567 Rep Power: 37	Re: Do Saiyans get stronger than humans from training Hero sir, might I ask you to tell me why you think his training was less effective than Goku's? Having no weights could easily knock a good amount off of his power, for certain, but getting roughly 10x (if you think Tien was 1800 or so) in twice the time Goku was there seems a little low to me. King Kaio said they would train harder, and he had the others to spar with, if that means anything. I think he would get about x20 per year, like Goku, as I stated before. So, what facts/evidence/logic, do you have as to Tien getting a very low increase?

09-02-2008	#21 (permalink)
Tyrant (22) Super Saiyan 3 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,224 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 329	Re: Do Saiyans get stronger than humans from training He just doesn't like humans. __________________ Goku will FUCK your Shit UP!

09-02-2008	#23 (permalink)
SSJ Ranulf (16) Master of Kaio-ken Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Gallia Posts: 567 Rep Power: 37	Re: Do Saiyans get stronger than humans from training In my 6 months of lurking, I noticed that, but he's innocent until proven guilty in my book. He can take all the time he needs, get his facts strait, and present them calmly. I hope he has a good argument. What about you, Frieza, where to you think Tien got, or do you have no opinion? Edit: I understand Hero, it looks like it's not just you don't like humans, like everyone thinks. I still think that Tien's around 70,000-80,000, but your opinion makes sense. It still seems a little low to me, but it is just a logical as what I've got.

09-02-2008	#25 (permalink)
SSJ Ranulf (16) Master of Kaio-ken Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Gallia Posts: 567 Rep Power: 37	Re: Do Saiyans get stronger than humans from training Well, I'm going with King Kaio meaning 'You know all my techniques, save my great jokes.', and not 'I can't make you much stronger.' I also figure that, having Yamcha to train with would make Tien a bit stronger. Then you have the fact that Kaio may have trained them harder. Maybe not, but it's possible. So I figure Tien's 1,800, a common number for his Saiyan Saga power level, x20 x2 would be around 72,000. I woun't say your wrong, but this is what I think.

09-02-2008	#26 (permalink)
SSJ4 Vegito (25) Kami of Earth Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,433 Rep Power: 134	Re: Do Saiyans get stronger than humans from training Saiyans push themselves harder and that what their main advantage is their desire to fight, however Goku (Weights) was at 334 and Tien (250) at the beginning of DBZ. Back at the 23rd Budokai Tien was nearly equal to Goku (Weighted) so I'd say it's most likely true that Saiyans get bigger increases especially if they really push themselves then they'll get Zenkais. __________________ 90% of DragonBall fans detest DragonBall GT If you're one of the 10% of fans who actually like GT, post this in your signature. "If everything God did made sense he wouldn't be 'God" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4afhQK_sXgQ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAi7ZDY2q4s- Dead sea scrolls http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU_rTX23V7Q for fellow Christians

09-02-2008	#27 (permalink)
SSJ Ranulf (16) Master of Kaio-ken Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Gallia Posts: 567 Rep Power: 37	Re: Do Saiyans get stronger than humans from training That's valid as well. It's a wonder if Tien was at his full power, I've heard some people say he was, and some say he was not. Even if he was not, I don't think he would have gained 75 points. I think it's that Goku had weighted clothing is how he got some much further ahead of Tien. It is peculiar that Tien went from Goku's equal (when Goku was weighted) to a good bit weaker than him.

09-02-2008	#28 (permalink)
SSJ4 Vegito (25) Kami of Earth Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,433 Rep Power: 134	Re: Do Saiyans get stronger than humans from training Perhaps, although I think Tien, Krillin, Yamcha and Chaioutzu's increases were due to the face that they had training partners. __________________ 90% of DragonBall fans detest DragonBall GT If you're one of the 10% of fans who actually like GT, post this in your signature. "If everything God did made sense he wouldn't be 'God" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4afhQK_sXgQ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAi7ZDY2q4s- Dead sea scrolls http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU_rTX23V7Q for fellow Christians

09-02-2008	#29 (permalink)
SSJ Ranulf (16) Master of Kaio-ken Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Gallia Posts: 567 Rep Power: 37	Re: Do Saiyans get stronger than humans from training That is quite logical. It looks like a training partner is good for a large power increase. This might help my theory of Tien being in the 70,000-80,000 range. Goku, on most power level charts, didn't get a big increase by training with Kami. But When Tien, Yamcha, Krillin, and Chatzu train, they get much stronger. This is perhaps to due having training partners. So in training with King Kaio, they logically would have gotten a lot stronger like before. If having someone to train with is so important, then it could have carried over to King Kaio's training. No reason for it not to.

09-02-2008	#30 (permalink)
LegendarySSJ7 Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: LA, CA, USA. Posts: 2,736 Rep Power: 48	Re: Do Saiyans get stronger than humans from training Just because Goku's Saiyan, and that he receives auto-evolution augmentations (as well as eventually reaching the Super Saiyan forms that overtook everything on all accounts in my eyes, or at least, something along that nature), doesn't mean that humans can't gain immense progression. I think the reason why people say Goku would gain more progression from Kaiosama's training than Tenshinhan, Piccolo, Yamcha, or/and Chaozu is because Goku's battle power was much lower at the time that he arrived on Kaiosama's planet, which means that none of the humans could benefit as much at much higher battle powers. And just before Piccolo was in contest with Freeza, Nail seemed rather impressed with the aura Piccolo projected. Again, with application and incentive that isn't frivolous, but devoted, I think the humans and Nameks can pull off some impressive feats (even if their eventual roofs aren't as high as the Saiyan's). __________________