Madness

Excellent. New ideas is exactly what we need in this section. It's become stagnant. + rep for you.

I've had some thoughts about this myself and have come to the conclusion that "Buff" Buu was heavily stressing himself at the time of the transformation. Look at the whole transformation:

LegendarySSJ7

__________________

Darkprince410

1) As said, Rou Dai Kaioushin-sama was undoubtedly trying to play it safe by insisting that Gokuu and Bejiita use the potaras to fuse together. Not to mention that between the picture that Kaiou-bito painted for him of Chibi Buu's actions as well as his sudden and sadistic destruction of Earth, it would be clear to him that this was a considerably different, more animalistic and dangerous (in its unpredictability) form of Buu than they had previously dealt with, and would warrant his immediate defeat even more than the other Buus that preceded him.

2) Rou Dai Kaioushin-sama's arguments towards wanting them to fuse together were a bit more selfish in nature, as he didn't like the idea of them fighting, and possibly destroying, Kaioushin-kai, which would more likely happen in a dead even, drawn out fight than it would if there was one fighter with a considerable advantage over the other.

3) At the time he said it, Gohan and the boys were dead, meaning that there weren't any others that could fight Buu if they were to die. Not to mention that, as we've seen already, Chibi Buu doesn't have the same drive to fight as the other Buus did, and wouldn't be above an underhanded maneuver like knocking Gokuu away and then blowing up Kaioushin-kai with a quick ki blast.

4) Gokuu, in my opinion, started his fight with Chibi Buu all wrong if he intended to defeat him, as it was shown that the only two known methods to defeat Buu was to either beat on him to the point that he's run out of ki, thus making it impossible to regenerate (what Chibi Buu was doing to Mr. Buu) or to completely engulf him in a blast of ki greater than that of Buu's own (what Ssj3 Gotenkusu was preparing to do before he reverted back to his base form, and what the Genki Dama managed to do). Gokuu didn't have a sustainable about of strength to be able to beat the ki out of Buu, and didn't unleash all his ki in a single blast at the very start of his fight, which is what it would have taken for him to extinguish Buu's ki that way.

5) Shin Buu was quite adamant about his statement that he knew that Gohan was coming, and was basically biding his time with the boys till Gohan's arrival. As for Pikkoro's statement to Gotenkusu about him damaging Buu, from every source I've read and seen, the statement is along the lines of that all the damage Gotenkusu had inflicted on Buu was mental, that he had physically not injured him in the slightest. Likewise, it appears that Shin Buu's delay in regenerating after the "beating" he received from Ssj3 Gotenkusu was intentional, to give him a false sense of hope before crushing it (though him dropping out of Ssj3 was enough of a crush anyway).

6) Look at both previous attempts that Gokuu had used the Genki Dama while under the impression that he had collected enough ki to kill the intended target. The Genki Dama used against Bejiita failed, and had it not been for Gohan transforming into an Oozaru, Bejiita would have killed them and most likely destroyed the Earth. Later, the Genki Dama used against Furiiza failed, resulting in the (abiet temporary) death of Kuririn, and had Gokuu not transformed into an Ssj, Furiiza would have killed them and dominated the universe unopposed.

In the case of the Genki Dama used to destroy Chibi Buu, Gokuu was initially very apprehensive about using it (stating that it had failed both times it had been used before) and even after agreeing with Bejiita's reasoning behind it, he was still probably doubtful about its success unless he went for a drastic level of overkill. After all, both his previous, confident attempts had failed, and it was only out of sheer luck that they still won, while in this case, if it failed, there would be no chance of victory for them.

__________________

ANB

1-Completely agree.

2-That's exactly what viz says:

-He was simply surprised that the kids could hold a candle to him. Piccolo's exact wording is "No, he is weakened. Perhaps not physically, but mentally. It unsettles him to think anyone could compare to him in power,".
-Gotenks blurted out that he only had a few minutes and then he would have to wait an hour to transform. Boo took advantage of that...
-...And gave them "False-hope" by sitting in the crater. He then blind-sided them with the kiai blast.
-Boo played with them for a long time until Gohan came. It was just for fun and to stall time--Boo could have won at any moment. Up until Gohan he hadn't been fighting seriously...and the way he talked to Gohan was that "If there's no one to challenge you, what's the point in strength?". He did not even consider Gotenks a worthy adversary.
-So Boo played with Gotenks until he knew the fusion would run out, realized Gohan was on his way, and then tested himself out to see if he [in his base] would be enough. Why would Boo bother challenging Gohan if he could already sense his chi from far away? He just wanted to see if it was necessary to absorb Gotenks and realized that it was (probably he could not guage Gohan's full-power from such a long distance. That is, until he powered-up right next to him).
-Boo blows himself and does not regenerate for an hour. No one realizes he was waiting for Goten and Trunks to have the ability to fuse again. Once again, Boo states: What is the point in being the strongest if there is no one to fight? He states that he had been planning this ever since he could feel Gohan's chi. He was toying with Gotenks.

As for Chibi-Boo, I think Goku was at full-power but could not find an opening to use his full-powered chi-attacks for complete-annhilation. And Chibi-Boo was far too resiliant and durable to be defeated in cqc.

__________________

Glue

Interesting concept.
Repped.
It would be nice to know if this is for sure because chibi buu is my favorite buu while shin buu is my least favorite.

__________________


DBZ Power Level List: http://anime.myfavoritegames.com/ani...er-levels.html

DBZ Power Level Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/1337Glue

gojirason

I once posted this on another website as an arguement.

If ssj3 goku was so much stronger than kid buu, why didn't he stop buu from destroying the world? You can't tell me it's because the ssj3 transformation takes to long because goku flashes into ssj3 instantly against gotenks buu, right? If he were so much stronger he would have stopped it but he said he couldn't. Plus, why does everyone assume that goku didn't get stronger during the buu saga? Maybe not much but something. Yes it takes him along time to power up, but he can transform instantly obviously.
Goku clearly states that he could've beaten fat buu initially with CONFIDENCE, completely voiding Goku's previous statement now revealed to be a lie. Also, Goku was not using his full power against fat buu, as Goku was not aware of the difference between powering up ssj3 until afterwards showing that goku was probably trying much harder in the kid buu fight, with much less success. Goku's multiple KAMEHAMEHAs clearly had absolutely no effect on kid buu, as he states "nothing I do has any effect, his chi just doesn't go down" showing this revelation is unusual even for majin buu, and showing that kid buu had MUCH more power in reserve. Goku was not "sure" he could finish buu, Vegeta was,and he hadn't fought him yet, so he had no measure of buu's power. And if you do take Vegeta at his word, he clearly says that NO ONE can fight buu except for Goku, and that Goku is the BEST. (Those are his words not mine) and don't forget that Vegeta had been watching ALL of the fights from otherworld so he might have some measure of Gotenks and Gohan's strength. Plus Vegeta, who had fought against the supposedly stronger fat buu, but was still shocked by Kid Buu's strength and says "I didn't realize how much stronger they are (Goku and Buu)" When goku is initially charging the Spirit Bomb, even AFTER the supposedly stronger Gohan plus all the other Z-fighters give all of the energy they can, Goku says that their combined is STILL not enough, even with Gohan, who should've been able to fuel the entire attack himself. My explanation for Kid Buu being stronger: inconsistency, it happens all the time in manga. Either that or Goku became inexplicably stronger for some unexplained reason... (Personally I believe that coming back to warrents zenkai. There is no reason to suggest otherwise, and if they died from injury, technically their body is healed).
I just thought of something. I think the good buu that fought kid was stronger than the one that fought evil. The original fat buu had the power of the kais, that power of daikaio was divided between good buu and evil buu, as is clear from his outfit. When super buu became kid buu, he first became bulky buu, but then reverted back to kid buu. But because the south kai was not released, he clearly was put back in fat buu, who would now have the power of both kais and his original abilities This shows, that since the power of the kais is no longer divided, this fat buu is at least much stronger than the one that fought evil, and at most (and most probably) the same as the original fat buu. Kid buu STILL kicks his ass, which suggests that the kais DID weaken Majin buu considerably, and while the manga never states this, it never states anything AGAINST this. Goku also states, when finding the fat pod, that "this is Majin Buu in his very first original form" first, even for fat/good.Also... Supreme kai, who was the only one who had encountered buu in his kid form, was sure goku and vegeta needed the potara to beat him. Goku also, during the fight with kid buu states that he may have been trying to act cool when he crushed the potara, and that they needed them against kid buu, using ssj3 full power was a last ditch effort. In addition, it makes NO SENSE for kid buu to NOT have been weakened by absorbing the kais. Buff Buu is obviously more powerful than fat buu, yes? But fat buu was the result of buff buu absorbing daikaioh. If he was strengthened by absorbing kais, why would his power more than quintuple when absorbing one kai, then drop to less than 1/3when absorbing a 2nd STRONGER kai. Clearly, both kais reduced kid buu's power.

Here is a counter arguement I once recieved.

That's because there was two Buff Buus. The one we see was the combination of Super Buu and The South Lord of Lords. The one that the Lord of Lords remembers was the combination of Kid Buu and the SLOL. The one Goku and Vegeta saw was stronger.
Buff Buu 1 = Kid Buu + SLOL
Buff Buu 2 = Super Buu + SLOL
Fat Buu = GLOL + Buff Buu 1

Buff Buu 2 > Super Buu > Fat Buu > Buff Buu 1

That's impossible, super clearly ALREADY draws power from the kais. Super Buu can only exist if he is connected to good and evil buu, from which the kai's power was split. What you are suggesting is that after evil buu absorbed the good buu he stopped using either of their power, therefore ONLY KID BUU's. So either what you said was not true (And there is already no way to prove it, considering the buff buu portrayed in SK's flashback (Yes filler, even though the buu was identified as the one that existed before) was the same "Super" buff buu)or Super Buu only uses Kid Buu's Power.

Personally, thank you for making this thread, I've been thinking about making it myself.

I'm not saying Super Buu is weaker (Although some evidence would suggest otherwise), But I definately think that Kid Buu is stronger than the original Fat Buu.

__________________
Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when you're gonna get eaten.

gojirason

It kind of makes me sad that this thread died. This is an area of DBZ that we really can still argue over :(

__________________
Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when you're gonna get eaten.

Sesshoumaru

i knew it,see that kid buu is the strongest of all the buus,and some neg me for that,its a little to late though, but still...

__________________

gojirason

Well I don't know about that...
Strong yes, how strong, unkown. I certainly believe to be under Gotenks Buu and Gohan Buu.

__________________
Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when you're gonna get eaten.

Evil Vegeta

I see it like this:

Gohan Buu>>Gotenks Buu>>>Majin Buu (Strongest Kaioshin absorbed)>>Piccolo Buu>Super Buu>>Kid Buu>>>Majin Buu>>Evil Buu>>>>>>Mr. Buu

__________________

Thanks to Sphinx's badass skills. Yay.

Quote:

I'm the boss, Applesauce! Judge Judy

Kazekage Gaara

Well, animewise, yes.
Mangawise, No, definitely not.

I see this as a well made argument, made me change some thoughts about Kid Buu.

__________________
BEHOLD!!! ENGRISH!!!!