Gohan SS2 or SS1 against Dabura - Page 3

Kaio · 07-27-2008

Gohan wanted to avoid using it because he was afraid of how it would affect his sympathetic nature; he's afraid he'll lose his humanity and hurt people and that he'll become reckless with his power and risk losing someone close to him.

Secret_Doom0 · 07-27-2008

Gohan was SSJ. Lightning is the main indicator of the SSJ2 transformation. All of the SSJ2 transformations in the manga have lightning. Therefore, if a SSJ transformation does not have lightning, it is not SSJ2. Also, Gohan's hair can no longer be used as an indicator to determine either transformation. The manga contradicted itself in using hair as an indicator.

As USSJed said before:
No lightning=SSJ
Lightning=SSJ2
That's all there is.

Ames · 07-27-2008

I've been in many debates similar to this and I've always said Gohan was a SSJ. It's all a matter of opinion though

.

Evil Vegeta · 07-27-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaio

Gohan wanted to avoid using it because he was afraid of how it would affect his sympathetic nature; he's afraid he'll lose his humanity and hurt people and that he'll become reckless with his power and risk losing someone close to him.

After he saw this Dabura guy turn Piccolo & Krillin into stone, he's worried about losing his cool? Gohan could use SSJ2 at will, so he isn't required to get all crazy or whatever. He could just simply use it. I also think it's funny how no one can make note of Gohan using a power weaker then he displayed, or, the fact that someone compared to Cell, even if it's suppressed Cell, couldn't wipe a much weaker MSSJ out.

Devilz · 07-27-2008

The Daizenshuu states him to be SSJ2, for daiz fanboys out there.

Kaio · 07-27-2008

All someone would have to say is that Dabura's power wasn't exactly the same as Cell.

Evil Vegeta · 07-27-2008

It doesn't have to be exactly the same. After Vegeta said "we could've easily handled him", Goku said: "With our level of power now anyway. He would've been bad news before, though." I think Goku is referring to their SSJ2 power, but it could mean anything.

Comparing Dabura to suppressed Cell is about the weakest Cell you can compare him to, because anything weaker is stupid. No MSSJ stood a chance against suppressed Cell, and a much weaker one isn't going to do any better.

To make things clear, again, I think Gohan was a SSJ.

DarthVenom9808 · 07-27-2008

Vegeta wants to finish Dabra for Gohan. Goku at this time had no idea that Vegeta was a SSJ2. When Vegeta states that he wants to finish Dabra, Goku merely says "C'mon, Vegeta let him do it. He still has a chance". If Gohan was a SSJ2 and Dabra's strength was around Super Perfect Cell's, Goku's reaction would have been, "What!? He's way too strong for you", as Goku was unaware of Vegeta's SSJ2.

Gohan was a SSJ.

SSJ4 Vegito · 07-27-2008

Gohan was a SSJ he might have had different hair than when he fought Goten but when Gohan was mad at Spopovich he went SSJ accidentally and had the exact same hair.

Evil Vegeta · 07-27-2008

The thing that makes that argument flawed, Venom, is that Vegeta stated that himself, along with Goku, were both stronger then Gohan before the battle with Dabura even started. Goku never corrected him right there, and he surely had no idea Vegeta was a SSJ2 at that point. Unless Goku somehow believed SSJ Vegeta would take SSJ2 Gohan down, which is unlikely. Goku was surprised when Vegeta went SSJ2, but still.

Goku also never saw anything aside from base Vegeta's power at this point.

**LegendarySSJ7** · 07-28-2008

I'd say Son Gohan was accessing SSj1. Indeed, this debate has been done a couple times too many but after pouring over the matter I feel that not enough people put credence into Gohan's placid nature - he's not a war machine. The last time he used accessed the SSj2 form it indirectly caused nigh the end of the world and his own father's death - that lead to more reactions than strategies. Call the 'psychological' argument petty all you want, but Gohan had reason not to rely upon the form again considering he hasn't been a) training and b) wouldn't want to use it for extensions of time after what happened 7 years before. He only went SSj2 at the behest of Dabra at the 25th Budokai, and even then the same cockiness that was written all over his attitude when he fought Cell was beginning to become lucid. I don't think he'd want to succumb to such power unless be it necessary by full intents and means, and yet it was before and look how that turned out, as aforementioned. But an opinion is an opinion. Here's one thing I'd like to leave posters with to ponder before I draw this post to a close:

Vegeta (page 172, Volume 38 / 22): "Pretty good. You're stronger than Gohan!"

Notice how he says "Pretty good." ? He alludes to Gohan's former power, of course, since at this point he only wields a shadow of that level of output. SSj2 Gohan's (the 9 year old one's) power - "pretty good"? Why would Vegeta deem such so if he and Goku were so much stronger at that point? Goku had 7 years to train in the Underworld, and Dabra was wheezing at the height of his battle with Gohan - if Dabra was as strong as Complete Cell (post-explosion, SSj2), someone at least of SSj2 Gohan's range, then do you think Vegeta and Goku would have addressed Dabra so frivolously? Recollect that Goku was in the underworld with Kaiosama when Cell returned.

I do agree with Ames, though - it is a matter of opinion. Some things are best left vague because the series was created for entertainment.

JayXL14 · 07-28-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC#1

Dude, just shut up, lol.

1. volume 35, chapter 1, page 13, when Gohan punches Cell, there is an aura shown but no lightning.

2. volume 35, chapter 2, page 4, on the bottom panel where Gohan kicks Cell, again, aura but no lightning.

3. volume 35, chapter 2, page 11, bottom-left panel, no lightning while Gohan stares at Cell's kamehameha and is about to shoot his kamehameha.

4. volume 35, chapter 2, page 12, this may just be because of the light of the kamehameha, but no lightning.

5. volume 35, chapter 2, page 13, again it MIGHT just be the kamehameha's light

6. volume 35, chapter 2, page 15, bottom-right corner, there is a panel showing Gohan standing with a smile, and he has no lightning

7. volume 35, chapter 3, page 7, bottom-right corner, while Gohan dodges Cell's punch and flips backwards there is no lightning

8. volume 35, chapter 4, page 5, there may be lightning at the bottom-left corner, but the other 2 panels Gohan is shown in have no lightning.

I could get a bunch more in a while.

JC#1, in the manga, there is always lightning on SSj2 BEFORE or AFTER the transformation. There is also lightning during the transformation at times. For example, this panel you showed us as "evidence."

Manga Fox: Dragon Ball Vol.35 Ch.001 Online Manga Scans

Are you kidding me? It is obvious that Gohan is a SSj2 in that panel, not from the panel, but from the page prior to it. IF SOMEONE IS SSJ2, THEY HAVE LIGHTNING BEFORE OR AFTER THE TRANSFORMATION. Of course, there is not lightning in every damn panel. Yes, lightning defines SSj2. Do you need lightning on you ALL the time? No. During the transformation? Yes. Even though we don't need to see lightning after the initial transformation, Akira puts it in there because it makes the SSj2 look more SSj2-like. Also, in your "evidence," try looking at the next page.. Because what do you see? Lightning. On Gohan. Which means.. he's SSj2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devilz

All SSJ2s have sparks before or after a transformation

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broly

Actually, there's more than one way to prove Gohan wasn't SSj2 against Dabra then just telling by the lack of sparks.

Found these in an old post. They explain it just fine.

Ames · 07-28-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by LegendarySSJ7

Some things are best left vague because the series was created for entertainment.

QFT.

The majority push toward Gohan being a SSJ but who cares? Arguing over something that won't be answered proves nothing for DB's entertainment.

~~JC#1~~ · 07-29-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayXL14

JC#1, in the manga, there is always lightning on SSj2 BEFORE or AFTER the transformation. There is also lightning during the transformation at times. For example, this panel you showed us as "evidence."

Manga Fox: Dragon Ball Vol.35 Ch.001 Online Manga Scans

Are you kidding me? It is obvious that Gohan is a SSj2 in that panel, not from the panel, but from the page prior to it. IF SOMEONE IS SSJ2, THEY HAVE LIGHTNING BEFORE OR AFTER THE TRANSFORMATION. Of course, there is not lightning in every damn panel. Yes, lightning defines SSj2. Do you need lightning on you ALL the time? No. During the transformation? Yes. Even though we don't need to see lightning after the initial transformation, Akira puts it in there because it makes the SSj2 look more SSj2-like. Also, in your "evidence," try looking at the next page.. Because what do you see? Lightning. On Gohan. Which means.. he's SSj2.

Found these in an old post. They explain it just fine.

You don't even know what side of the argument I'm on, do you? There may have been lightning AFTER the transformation if Gohan hadn't fallen into a body of water while fighting Dabura. The other ways to tell SS2 or SS1 are the more dramatic and crazy hair for SS2, and the different personality Gohan had from SS1 to SS2. The only reason I even posted those panls of the manga was because USSJed told me too, we both have the same opinion about the lightning, which is that SS2s don't have it EVERY DAMN SECOND, which is the point I was trying to get through to USSJed.

Dupe of USSJed · 07-29-2008

Quote:

Gohan wanted to avoid using it because he was afraid of how it would affect his sympathetic nature; he's afraid he'll lose his humanity and hurt people and that he'll become reckless with his power and risk losing someone close to him.

Repped. I think that is by far the best explanation I have seen as to why he would use MSSJ over SSJ2

Quote:

You don't even know what side of the argument I'm on, do you? There may have been lightning AFTER the transformation if Gohan hadn't fallen into a body of water while fighting Dabura. The other ways to tell SS2 or SS1 are the more dramatic and crazy hair for SS2, and the different personality Gohan had from SS1 to SS2. The only reason I even posted those panls of the manga was because USSJed told me too, we both have the same opinion about the lightning, which is that SS2s don't have it EVERY DAMN SECOND, which is the point I was trying to get through to USSJed.

I don't even know what side of the argument I am on. Thats why I hate his argument. Anyway, if Gohan showed no lightning during the whole fight(except possibly while Kamehameha'ing if he even did that), then he was obviously SSJ1, if there is lightning at some point, then he was obviously SSJ2.

07-27-2008	#31 (permalink)
Kaio (15) Super Namekian Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 439 Rep Power: 8	Re: Gohan SS2 or SS1 against Dabura Gohan wanted to avoid using it because he was afraid of how it would affect his sympathetic nature; he's afraid he'll lose his humanity and hurt people and that he'll become reckless with his power and risk losing someone close to him.

07-27-2008	#32 (permalink)
Secret_Doom0 (4) Turtle School Disciple Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 27 Rep Power: 0	Re: Gohan SS2 or SS1 against Dabura Gohan was SSJ. Lightning is the main indicator of the SSJ2 transformation. All of the SSJ2 transformations in the manga have lightning. Therefore, if a SSJ transformation does not have lightning, it is not SSJ2. Also, Gohan's hair can no longer be used as an indicator to determine either transformation. The manga contradicted itself in using hair as an indicator. As USSJed said before: No lightning=SSJ Lightning=SSJ2 That's all there is.

07-27-2008	#33 (permalink)
Ames (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Omnipresent Posts: 1,313 Rep Power: 83	Re: Gohan SS2 or SS1 against Dabura I've been in many debates similar to this and I've always said Gohan was a SSJ. It's all a matter of opinion though. __________________ Ignorance is Bliss...

07-27-2008	#36 (permalink)
Kaio (15) Super Namekian Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 439 Rep Power: 8	Re: Gohan SS2 or SS1 against Dabura All someone would have to say is that Dabura's power wasn't exactly the same as Cell.

07-27-2008	#38 (permalink)
DarthVenom9808 (19) Mastered Super Saiyan Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Vancouver Posts: 1,071 Rep Power: 48	Re: Gohan SS2 or SS1 against Dabura Vegeta wants to finish Dabra for Gohan. Goku at this time had no idea that Vegeta was a SSJ2. When Vegeta states that he wants to finish Dabra, Goku merely says "C'mon, Vegeta let him do it. He still has a chance". If Gohan was a SSJ2 and Dabra's strength was around Super Perfect Cell's, Goku's reaction would have been, "What!? He's way too strong for you", as Goku was unaware of Vegeta's SSJ2. Gohan was a SSJ. __________________ -insert sig that doesn't violate restricted height limit here- YouTube \| Wiki \| Fan Fiction

07-27-2008	#39 (permalink)
SSJ4 Vegito (26) Great Elder of Namek Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,482 Rep Power: 138	Re: Gohan SS2 or SS1 against Dabura Gohan was a SSJ he might have had different hair than when he fought Goten but when Gohan was mad at Spopovich he went SSJ accidentally and had the exact same hair.

07-28-2008	#41 (permalink)
LegendarySSJ7 Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: LA, CA, USA. Posts: 2,746 Rep Power: 49	Re: Gohan SS2 or SS1 against Dabura I'd say Son Gohan was accessing SSj1. Indeed, this debate has been done a couple times too many but after pouring over the matter I feel that not enough people put credence into Gohan's placid nature - he's not a war machine. The last time he used accessed the SSj2 form it indirectly caused nigh the end of the world and his own father's death - that lead to more reactions than strategies. Call the 'psychological' argument petty all you want, but Gohan had reason not to rely upon the form again considering he hasn't been a) training and b) wouldn't want to use it for extensions of time after what happened 7 years before. He only went SSj2 at the behest of Dabra at the 25th Budokai, and even then the same cockiness that was written all over his attitude when he fought Cell was beginning to become lucid. I don't think he'd want to succumb to such power unless be it necessary by full intents and means, and yet it was before and look how that turned out, as aforementioned. But an opinion is an opinion. Here's one thing I'd like to leave posters with to ponder before I draw this post to a close: Vegeta (page 172, Volume 38 / 22): "Pretty good. You're stronger than Gohan!" Notice how he says "Pretty good." ? He alludes to Gohan's former power, of course, since at this point he only wields a shadow of that level of output. SSj2 Gohan's (the 9 year old one's) power - "pretty good"? Why would Vegeta deem such so if he and Goku were so much stronger at that point? Goku had 7 years to train in the Underworld, and Dabra was wheezing at the height of his battle with Gohan - if Dabra was as strong as Complete Cell (post-explosion, SSj2), someone at least of SSj2 Gohan's range, then do you think Vegeta and Goku would have addressed Dabra so frivolously? Recollect that Goku was in the underworld with Kaiosama when Cell returned. I do agree with Ames, though - it is a matter of opinion. Some things are best left vague because the series was created for entertainment. __________________ Last edited by LegendarySSJ7; 07-28-2008 at 05:01 AM.