Saiyans and Half-Saiyans - Page 5

**Majuub** · 07-12-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madness

I've already addressed these points and the situations of Goten and Trunks' ascention into Super Saiyan are not known. They could have been from birth, the ability unlocked when they were concieved due to their fathers' already having attained the state.

Yes, this would give them an advantage; the advantage of time. Given time, and assuming that the growth of a Saiyan is without limit they could easily surpass Gohan's strength. But that is not the same as hidden potential and is something that is given from birth to all Saiyans. However, this opens the can of worms about the Saiyans supposed "unlimited potential". Goten's and Trunks' may have a boundary that they cannot pass and that boundary may be much lower than Gohan's strength.

Exactly, nothing was explained, why trying to explain then? They're just SSJ because they recieved the proper training and they had enough power, that's it, no need to go further as no additionnal information was given. Goten and Trunks at 8 are just leaps and bounds ahead of Gohan, si when they'll be 8years older they should surpass Chou Gohan completely.

The only reason I see for them being so strong is the fact that, by the time they were born, SSJ was nothing to Goku, Gohan or Vegeta, they could easily break the limits of the SSJ, so it's not hard to believe they thaught the kids how to become much stronger faster. Their training methods isn't as crappy as in the debut of the series, they can gain more strength with less time.

~~JC#1~~ · 07-12-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madness

Yes they do. But if you look at it, their species is a huge factor in that power.

Guess so, I'm just saying I don't think most half saiyans are stronger than most saiyans or the other way around.

Madness · 07-12-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majuub

Exactly, nothing was explained, why trying to explain then? They're just SSJ because they recieved the proper training and they had enough power, that's it, no need to go further as no additionnal information was given. Goten and Trunks at 8 are just leaps and bounds ahead of Gohan, si when they'll be 8years older they should surpass Chou Gohan completely.

The only reason I see for them being so strong is the fact that, by the time they were born, SSJ was nothing to Goku, Gohan or Vegeta, they could easily break the limits of the SSJ, so it's not hard to believe they thaught the kids how to become much stronger faster. Their training methods isn't as crappy as in the debut of the series, they can gain more strength with less time.

So you're saying that because we have no evidence to the contrary... we should accept one unfounded statement? I'm sorry but that's totally ridiculous.

Neon_ · 07-13-2008

Vegeta clearly says that Half-Saiyans are stronger.

Madness · 07-13-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neon_

Vegeta clearly says that Half-Saiyans are stronger.

*Sigh*

I've addressed this. Please read my posts from before...

Neon_ · 07-13-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madness

*Sigh*

I've addressed this. Please read my posts from before...

I know, but i want to show that he speeks about all of the human/saiyans race, and not just about Gohan.

Just to make it clear.

Madness · 07-13-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neon_

I know, but i want to show that he speeks about all of the human/saiyans race, and not just about Gohan.

Just to make it clear.

But at the time, Gohan is the only hybrid! There had never been anymore; they don't have any other examples!

Neon_ · 07-13-2008

Yes, but Nappa talks about creating an army of hybrids and vegeta says that isn’t a good ideal cuz they will be more powerful that they are.

Madness · 07-13-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neon_

Yes, but Nappa talks about creating an army of hybrids and vegeta says that isn’t a good ideal cuz they will be more powerful that they are.

Yeah but they don't know that Gohan is the only one =/

Dupe of USSJed · 07-13-2008

Quote:

the kids reach SSJ3(Well, they could reach it by their 16th birthday) they would be leaps and bounds ahead of Chou Gohan.

Do you seriously think it would take them 8 years to reach SSJ3? They went from SSJ to fused SSJ3 in a week. I honestly see them turning SSJ3 unfused within a year easily.

**Majuub** · 07-13-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madness

So you're saying that because we have no evidence to the contrary... we should accept one unfounded statement? I'm sorry but that's totally ridiculous.

What's ridiculous is assuming without any proof to back up your assumptions. Nothing was explained as I said, why trying to understand something that has given no information?

gad_is_here · 07-13-2008

Maybe Bardock's family was the only low class family with great potential in their genes?

Dupe of USSJed · 07-13-2008

I am going to use this argument alot in the future. Ockhams razor, the simplist answer is usually the best one. Simple answer, Half Saiyans are stronger than Saiyans, based on the times that a character states this very fact.

The only three half saiyans we have seen, are Gohan(stated to be uber strong), Goten and Trunks(everyone is amazed at their power), although you could argue that SSJ is inherited. All three of the half Saiyans we have seen have been stated to be uber strong, and combine that with the stated fact that half saiyans>saiyans and I don't see why there is even an argument.

Keep in mind that Toriyama had made Vegeta state that Half Saiyans are uber strong, so why should he repeat himself later on?

Madness · 07-13-2008

Quote wall!

Quote:

Originally Posted by USSJed

Do you seriously think it would take them 8 years to reach SSJ3? They went from SSJ to fused SSJ3 in a week. I honestly see them turning SSJ3 unfused within a year easily.

A RoSaT week, so that's rather different. Plus Gotenks had the power, he just needed to find the technique.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majuub

What's ridiculous is assuming without any proof to back up your assumptions. Nothing was explained as I said, why trying to understand something that has given no information?

I'm assuming nothing, I'm simply showing the outcome from my own interpretations using the evidence provided.

Hidden power/potential = Gohan's crazy mad outbursts. Goten and Trunks had none of these. Ever. It's not like Toriyama was screaming in our face about it. Sure, they may have more power, but it was never made screamingly obvious the way it was with Gohan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by USSJed

I am going to use this argument alot in the future. Ockhams razor, the simplist answer is usually the best one. Simple answer, Half Saiyans are stronger than Saiyans, based on the times that a character states this very fact.

Once. That's how often it's stated. Once, and under a different context.

Quote:

Originally Posted by USSJed

The only three half saiyans we have seen, are Gohan(stated to be uber strong), Goten and Trunks(everyone is amazed at their power), although you could argue that SSJ is inherited. All three of the half Saiyans we have seen have been stated to be uber strong, and combine that with the stated fact that half saiyans>saiyans and I don't see why there is even an argument.

We only ever see two Saiyans in action; does that mean their whole race is uber-strong? No. Gohan was born with a huge amount of strength. Goten and Trunks were simply born with powerful fathers. Look at Mirai Trunks; he had the same father, and yet he wasn't able to access Super Saiyan until much later. Why? Vegeta wasn't Super Saiyan when he was concieved. It's the only explanation. Mirai Trunks had a much harder upbringing, and this should've made him stronger than the spoiled little brat that was Chibi Trunks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by USSJed

Keep in mind that Toriyama had made Vegeta state that Half Saiyans are uber strong, so why should he repeat himself later on?

Under a vastly different context when Gohan was to be the only hybrid. It changed with further examples of hybrids; Goten and Trunks were powerful, but this can be attributed to their fathers.

Dupe of USSJed · 07-13-2008

Was the "Hybrids>Saiyans" statement ever contradicted?

07-13-2008	#68 (permalink)
Neon_ (10) Saiyan Elite Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Portugal Posts: 128 Rep Power: 2	Re: Saiyans and Half-Saiyans Yes, but Nappa talks about creating an army of hybrids and vegeta says that isn’t a good ideal cuz they will be more powerful that they are.

07-13-2008	#72 (permalink)
gad_is_here (23) Final Warrior Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: I go with the naked ladies[;)] Posts: 2,507 Blog Entries: 7 Rep Power: 77	Re: Saiyans and Half-Saiyans Maybe Bardock's family was the only low class family with great potential in their genes? __________________ Nobody's perfect and since I'm nobody... Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else. Avoid fruits and nuts. You are what you eat. Jim Davis All true wisdom is found on T-shirts. Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.

07-13-2008	#73 (permalink)
Dupe of USSJed (28) Lord of Worlds Join Date: May 2008 Location: drawing. Im kinda the best drawer in my class , not to brag or anything Posts: 7,704 Rep Power: 202	Re: Saiyans and Half-Saiyans I am going to use this argument alot in the future. Ockhams razor, the simplist answer is usually the best one. Simple answer, Half Saiyans are stronger than Saiyans, based on the times that a character states this very fact. The only three half saiyans we have seen, are Gohan(stated to be uber strong), Goten and Trunks(everyone is amazed at their power), although you could argue that SSJ is inherited. All three of the half Saiyans we have seen have been stated to be uber strong, and combine that with the stated fact that half saiyans>saiyans and I don't see why there is even an argument. Keep in mind that Toriyama had made Vegeta state that Half Saiyans are uber strong, so why should he repeat himself later on? __________________ DBZ RPG Accepting new entrants! Must be active every day, at some point between 10am and 6pm New Zealand Time(+13), and willing to take the RPG seriously. 9 out of 10 MFGers thing that Orancello is SSJJason. If you are one of the 1 in 10 that don't, copy this and put it in your sig. Accepted Character Races. Android(#8, can upgrade later), Alien(Custom), Bio Android(Cell type), Changeling(Frieza), Demon, Human, Kaioshin, Namekian. Others conditionally. No Saiyans and Hybrids, sorry.

07-13-2008	#75 (permalink)
Dupe of USSJed (28) Lord of Worlds Join Date: May 2008 Location: drawing. Im kinda the best drawer in my class , not to brag or anything Posts: 7,704 Rep Power: 202	Re: Saiyans and Half-Saiyans Was the "Hybrids>Saiyans" statement ever contradicted? __________________ DBZ RPG Accepting new entrants! Must be active every day, at some point between 10am and 6pm New Zealand Time(+13), and willing to take the RPG seriously. 9 out of 10 MFGers thing that Orancello is SSJJason. If you are one of the 1 in 10 that don't, copy this and put it in your sig. Accepted Character Races. Android(#8, can upgrade later), Alien(Custom), Bio Android(Cell type), Changeling(Frieza), Demon, Human, Kaioshin, Namekian. Others conditionally. No Saiyans and Hybrids, sorry.