Saiyans and Half-Saiyans - Page 2

Madness · 07-11-2008

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Originally Posted by SSJ4 Vegito

Well it's undeniable that Saiyans/humans have more potential and can gain faster but sometimes they do tend to slack off but this is a personality trait. Saiyans just love to fight which perhaps motivates them to become stronger, and half-saiyans don't however if Half-Saiyans go through the same training as Full-blooded Saiyans they will beyond a shadow of a doubt become stronger (By a very wide margin) than full-blooded Saiyans.

There's no proof that the hybrid (apart from Gohan) is any stronger than a full blood Saiyan. Had a full blood Saiyan with as strong parents as Goten & Trunks were, they could easily be just as strong.

Devilz · 07-11-2008

It was stated by Nappa or Vegeta (forgot who) in early DBZ that half saiyans have more potential than full saiyans, and this is not contradicted.

And the fact that Goten and Trunks reached SSJ when they did should be a big enough clue.

Madness · 07-11-2008

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Originally Posted by Devilz

It was stated by Nappa or Vegeta (forgot who) in early DBZ that half saiyans have more potential than full saiyans, and this is not contradicted.

And yet at that point the only hybrid that they had witnessed was Gohan, who indeed was very powerful, so their comments may have been in the singular.

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Originally Posted by Devilz

And the fact that Goten and Trunks reached SSJ when they did should be a big enough clue.

The circumstances of their ascention to Super Saiyan are not known, so this is a redundant point. They could have been born with the ability to go Super Saiyan; the "Super Saiyan gene" having been passed down from their fathers' already active. Also, this does not answer my point about a full blooded Saiyan with similar strength parents.

Devilz · 07-11-2008

It's not singular, they talked about breeding a bunch of half-saiyans or w/e. And everything in the series points to half saiyans having more potential and not the other way around.

And if they were SSJ at such a young age that would surely say something about their potential. And Piccolo also seems to think they got a decent sized increase for their short time in rosat - once again points to their potential and rapid growth of power.

I can't answer your point about the full-blooded saiyan with similar strength parents because that's just blind guessing.

Madness · 07-11-2008

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Originally Posted by Devilz

It's not singular, they talked about breeding a bunch of half-saiyans or w/e. And everything in the series points to half saiyans having more potential and not the other way around.

No, the issue is never raised again in the series. That's different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devilz

And if they were SSJ at such a young age that would surely say something about their potential. And Piccolo also seems to think they got a decent sized increase for their short time in rosat - once again points to their potential and rapid growth of power.

Again, this could easily come down to their fathers and the relative powers of them. However, there is never a big deal made about the size of their "hidden powers"/potential whatever you want to call it. This easily leads us to assume that their powers are not as titanic as Gohan's.

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Originally Posted by Devilz

I can't answer your point about the full-blooded saiyan with similar strength parents because that's just blind guessing.

As it assuming that Goten and Trunks have greater potential.

Devilz · 07-11-2008

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Originally Posted by Madness

No, the issue is never raised again in the series. That's different.

And the reason to raise this issue again would be...?

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Originally Posted by Madness

Again, this could easily come down to their fathers and the relative powers of them. However, there is never a big deal made about the size of their "hidden powers"/potential whatever you want to call it. This easily leads us to assume that their powers are not as titanic as Gohan's.

Just because their potentials aren't hidden doesn't mean it's not there. They have to spend time drawing out Gohan's potential while Goten and Trunks can reach high levels of power easily. Goten and Trunks are Super Saiyan way younger than Gohan - enough said.

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Originally Posted by Madness

As it assuming that Goten and Trunks have greater potential.

Nope, that's going by uncontradicted manga statements. You're the one with the baseless argument.

Madness · 07-11-2008

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Originally Posted by Devilz

And the reason to raise this issue again would be...?

To further underline the issue and prove that the hybrids are more powerful.

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Originally Posted by Devilz

Just because their potentials aren't hidden doesn't mean it's not there. They have to spend time drawing out Gohan's potential while Goten and Trunks can reach high levels of power easily. Goten and Trunks are Super Saiyan way younger than Gohan - enough said.

No, enough isn't said. As I have repeated again and again, the situation that caused the two of them to ascend is not known. As I said, they could have been born with a higher power level due to their fathers' being so much stronger than the normal Saiyan.

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Originally Posted by Devilz

Nope, that's going by uncontradicted manga statements. You're the one with the baseless argument.

Hardly, I'm going by lack of evidence. Goten and Trunks never show that they're capable of the tier of power that Gohan accesses randomly through rage. Hell, they've had enough opportunity to do it.

Neon_ · 07-11-2008

Gohan was the "special one" he was meant to be the strongest character in DBZ none of the other half-saiyans or 1/4 saiyans got as strong as Goku and Vegeto, and i doubt that they had the potential to get as Goku or Vegeto

Devilz · 07-11-2008

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Originally Posted by Madness

To further underline the issue and prove that the hybrids are more powerful.

lol, there's no need for that. Or do you think every manga statement should be repeated twice for your leisure?

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Originally Posted by Madness

No, enough isn't said. As I have repeated again and again, the situation that caused the two of them to ascend is not known. As I said, they could have been born with a higher power level due to their fathers' being so much stronger than the normal Saiyan.

And again I've already told you of their increase in rosat. And even if by some chance you were correct, there is still nothing to point saiyans having more potential than half-saiyans.

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Originally Posted by Madness

Hardly, I'm going by lack of evidence. Goten and Trunks never show that they're capable of the tier of power that Gohan accesses randomly through rage. Hell, they've had enough opportunity to do it.

There is no lack of evidence. It's all written down. You just can't see it, or choose to ignore it.

Madness · 07-11-2008

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Originally Posted by Neon_

Gohan was the "special one" he was meant to be the strongest character in DBZ none of the other half-saiyans or 1/4 saiyans got as strong as Goku and Vegeto, and i doubt that they had the potential to get as Goku or Vegeto

Vegetto's a fusion. He's a damn sight more powerful than a simple hybrid.

Gohan was simply born with a lot more power than anyone else. He wasn't "special" in any way that meant he was involved in any prophecy, unlike his father, he's simply strong.

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Originally Posted by Devilz

lol, there's no need for that. Or do you think every manga statement should be repeated twice for your leisure?

No, but I think it should be reclarified to allow for the appearance of other examples.

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Originally Posted by Devilz

And again I've already told you of their increase in rosat. And even if by some chance you were correct, there is still nothing to point saiyans having more potential than half-saiyans.

The increase in the RoSat could have more to do with them being kids as well as anything else. Also, I'm not ruling out the possibility, I'm just saying that nothing indicates that Goten and Trunks have more potential than their respective fathers. Yes, they could very easily surpass them, but that has more to do with time than anything else; they had a head start.

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Originally Posted by Devilz

There is no lack of evidence. It's all written down. You just can't see it, or choose to ignore it.

No, there is a lack of evidence towards Goten and Trunks. Look at the context that the statement was made in; at this time, Dragon Ball was to end at the Freeza Arc. There were to be no more hybrids anyway, so the statement pointed exclusively to Gohan. At this time the statement is completely true. However, as the story progressed, the facts changed. Nothing shows Goten and Trunks to have the same potential that Gohan does.

Devilz · 07-11-2008

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Originally Posted by Madness

The increase in the RoSat could have more to do with them being kids as well as anything else.

What does being kids have to do with anything?

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Originally Posted by Madness

No, there is a lack of evidence towards Goten and Trunks. Look at the context that the statement was made in; at this time, Dragon Ball was to end at the Freeza Arc. There were to be no more hybrids anyway, so the statement pointed exclusively to Gohan. At this time the statement is completely true. However, as the story progressed, the facts changed. Nothing shows Goten and Trunks to have the same potential that Gohan does.

If it were to point exclusively to Gohan, they would mention that. There is no reason for AT to contradict his earlier statement without correcting it simply because he's decided to continue the story.

Madness · 07-11-2008

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Originally Posted by Devilz

What does being kids have to do with anything?

The could be an element of surprise to seeing the kids development, but that is a strained point at best. They're Saiyans; and Saiyans develop power quickly. Given their personalities, Piccolo may not have expected so much work from either of them.

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Originally Posted by Devilz

If it were to point exclusively to Gohan, they would mention that. There is no reason for AT to contradict his earlier statement without correcting it simply because he's decided to continue the story.

That's true, but does it not strengthen my point that they do not point out the kids' power (if indeed it exists) rather than relying on a single statement from the beginning of the series. Let me remind you that the issue of Gohan's power was constantly reminded to us as an audience over and over again from the words of characters and the narrator. Nothing like that was ever done for Goten or Trunks.

Also, sorry for the delay, I had to go for food.

Tyrant · 07-11-2008

Saiyan power and fighting ability paired with human emotion is what makes Gohan so powerful.

07-11-2008	#23 (permalink)
Neon_ (10) Saiyan Elite Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Portugal Posts: 128 Rep Power: 2	Re: Saiyans and Half-Saiyans Gohan was the "special one" he was meant to be the strongest character in DBZ none of the other half-saiyans or 1/4 saiyans got as strong as Goku and Vegeto, and i doubt that they had the potential to get as Goku or Vegeto

07-11-2008	#28 (permalink)
Tyrant (22) Super Saiyan 3 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,224 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 337	Re: Saiyans and Half-Saiyans Saiyan power and fighting ability paired with human emotion is what makes Gohan so powerful.