Dupe of USSJed

Alright, its Just Another Tien Fan Boy Thread.

Today I will be discussing how Tien could have easily reached 1,000,000 in Dragon Ball Z.

Alright, first, his Power Level post King Kai. Lets look at Goku for comparison.

Goku
Starting PL:416
Time Spent: 118 Days
End PL: 8,000
Increase: 19.23x

Yamcha stated that Tien, Chaotzu, and himself were going to train harder than Goku. But lets put that aside for a second(People who don't believe this stated line, I have not forgotten you, scroll down until you find the stuff written in RED). If Goku could increase by x19.23 in 118 days, then using the retarded logic most people use, he would increase by 48.88x in 300 days. He would actually increase far more than that, but I will use this Tien hating logic today, as even with this low levelI can prove Tien reaching 1,000,000

So, Tien comes back from King Kai's, and his Power Level is now 89,450. A fine figure compared to 99% of the universe, but one that pales in comparison to Goku, Piccolo, and Vegeta. So Tien trains for two years until the arrival of Mecha Frieza.

The second thing to detirmine, is Tien's Normal Training Increase. Tienincreased by 7.32x in one year back in the Saiyan Saga. However, this was with the help of Kami for half of that time. Piccolo on the other hand, increased by x8.75 in that same year, through training on his own and with Gohan, a weaker fighter than would hold him back more than anything else.

Is it not believable, to assign a mere 1.5x multiplier per year of training. I mean, there was no Saiyans arriving or anything to cause Tien to train particularily hard, and this is the lowest number I could realistically apply to his training.

Alright, so in the two years until Frieza arrived, Tien went from 89,450 to 201,262. Trunks shows up, and warns everyone of the arrival of the androids, so everyone starts training harder than ever!

I have assigned Tien a x2 multiplier per year for the following 3 years of training. Thats pathetically low, especially compared to an estimated x90 increase for Piccolo over 3 years.

After 3 years, Tien would have reached 1,610,096, just in time to Kikoho Cell, recieving an estimated 480x to 750x Multiplier for his attack(based on Cell levels from 4 PL lists on this site)

Compare this to the Kikoho multiplier of c. 10000x for a Tien at 120,000, and any reasonable and logical person should see that the attack having such a bullshit multiplier makes less sense, then simply believing that like all the main characters, Tien manages to break the 1,000,000 mark

And to those people that think Tien got half the boost Goku did due to weights, and that ignore the statement that they would train harder than Goku. Look at this one

Tien(Post King Kai) 44,734 (exactly half of what Goku would have got in the time)
After 12 years till the Majin Saga, at only x1.5 per year... PL: 5,804,072

If anyone does not think Tien can exceed 1,000,000 then post your (hopefully) logical and legitimate reasons here...

OR ADMIT DEFEAT, AND PLEAD FOR MERCY FROM THE STRONGEST HUMAN, TIENSHINHAN!!!!

Finkler

You talk sense.

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Dupe of USSJed

Whoopee!

I have noticed that about 50% of PL lists put Tien at 1,000,000+ at some point... this thread is directed at that other 50% in an effort to explain to them why I think Tien can exceed 1,000,000. Then perhaps I can either show them the true power of Tien, or they can explain how Tien<<<1,000,000 and then I won't go around spouting nonsense...

Tyro

158 days; not 118.

Kaio-sama: "Hmm...We've got some flying Saiya-jins, all right...On a pace to reach Earth in...oh, say...158 days..."

Actually, it was Kaio-sama stating that they wanted training harder than what Goku received upon their arrival.

Roughly 1.73 years, actually. And that's only if he actualy continued to train once he returned to Earth.

This is only based on if you believe in the Daizenshuu battle strength for Piccolo actually being 3,500. Most of us don't, and find a more appropriate number being anywhere from 2,200 - 2,500. That being an increase of roughly 5.288 and 6, respectively.

This also goes for your increase for Tenshinhan. Battle strengths are open to interpretation, and although the Daizenshuu battle strength in this case isn't a far cry off from being correct if it isn't already correct, to talk as if it's written in stone is flawed logic.

I would like to see more basis for this number apart from it only being based on your 300 day multiplier. Due to it being over a longer period of time, how strong any person could grow in gravity they will be completely used to in less than half the time would greatly reduce the increase one would receive.

Two very different cases, however. Piccolo was training with both Goku (who we know trained against Piccolo and Gohan in SSj form) and Gohan (who, if he lost his temper, had power that exceeded Piccolo's). Ten had Chaozu to train with in the mountains, although I will say that Chaozu wasn't all that much weaker than Ten at this point.

Dupe of USSJed

I attribute a large amount of the boost Goku got from King Kai to King Kai's legendary training. Just think, Raditz was PL 1200 and was born and raised in 10g. The getting used to 10g would only put you up to like 1000 with that in mind. Also, King Kai spent some(possibly a great deal) of time teaching Goku the Spirit Bomb and Kaoken, which he did not do with Tien. This extra time could possibly make up for any decreased boost which you are implying.

Minus 30 days, didn't they show up a month earlier than expected? That would make it 128 days.

Oh, my bad, but ends the same way anyway.

Ok, I just went from what I thought I saw in the Manga.

Not saying it didn't happen, but did it show SSJ form in the Manga? I don't remember either way.

I will wait and see if anyone else has anything to say, and then tomorrow I will recalculate Tien's power level going on the new information.

EDIT: 1000 POSTS WOOOOOOPHEEEEE!!!!!

EDIT AGAIN: I recounted the days, and I see your 158 days was 188-30.

uki1234

480x isn't much better than 10000x.They are both unbelievable increase.

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Tyro

I'll agree that the Genki Dama may have hindered Goku's training, but not so with the Kaio-ken. To sustain the Kaio-ken requires more physical training than anything. Goku after training on the way to Namek recognized the 10-fold Kaio-ken as his limit before he would begin to strain his body. Then, after healing from the wounds inflicted by Vegeta, even though his power had multiplied many fold, he still recognized the same Kaio-ken multiplier as his limit.

As stated by other members, it's possible Ten mixed his Ki-ko-ho with a variation of the Kaio-ken.

Kaio-sama had the correct calculations for when the Saiya-jins would arrive on Earth, and those differed from what everyone else thought based on Raditz's "they'll be here in a year" remark.

Edit: Something I forgot to mention. On the day that Kaio-sama said the Saiya-jin's would arrive...they arrived.

Click.

Kazekage Gaara

This makes a lot of sense in my eyes.
Off-topic:You beat Tyro to 1000 posts!

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BEHOLD!!! ENGRISH!!!!

Jay

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Dupe of USSJed

Congratulations Tyro, you have proven me wrong... or have you. Indeed, using the basic, 5 year old level of logic that has been used so far. But BEHOLD!!! I decided to bring out the big guns.

Congratulations Tyro, using the standard information I have come to the conclusion that Tien would be approx 320,000 VS Semiperfect Cell

December 18 762
Tien Arrives at King Kai
270 days spent training
Compared to Goku, he was there 1.6875x longer
Goku recieved an 19.23x increase in 158 days. Tien would recieve a 32.45x increase in 270 days
Tien=59,384
September 9 763 AD
Tien Arrives back from King Kai

10 Months
310 days
1.27x increase in 310 days
Tien=75,653
August 764
Frieza Arrives

2 Years, 9 Months, 20 days
1040 days(rounded)
4.2x increase is 1040 days
Tien=323,338
May 20 767 AD
Tien Kikoho's Cell

7 years
2600 days(rounded)
x10.6 increase in 2600 days
Tien=3,454,844
May 8 774 AD
Tien Kikoho's Buu's attack

However, this is where I take a more mathamatical approach.

Quote:

If Goku could increase by x19.23 in 118 days, then using the retarded logic most people use, he would increase by 48.88x in 300 days. He would actually increase far more than that, but I will use this Tien hating logic today, as even with this low level I can prove Tien reaching 1,000,000

As I mentioned here, these increasing boosts are wrong. Let me show you with a simple argument

I am assuming you can comprehend the following, it's quite simple, but amazingly it goes right over the heads of some people.

Lets say Krillin was PL:100 and he trained for 5 years, recieving a x2 increase each year. Using the previous incorrect logic, we would detirmine him to increase by x10 in 5 years.
However, what would actually happen is this.

Krillin(Start):100
Krillin(End of Y1):200
Krillin(End of Y2):400
Krillin(End of Y3):800
Krillin(End of Y4):1600
Krillin(End of Y5):3200

He would double his strength each year, rather than by x10 in 5 years.
So heres where it conincides with my theory of Tienitude.


So here is what I did, I went and calculated the exact % increase in PL per day, for both training with King Kai, and a x1.5 per year increase. (You can prove the exactness using the equation down the bottom, on your own home calculator)

270 days spent training
Compared to Goku, he was there 1.6875x longer
Goku recieved an 19.23x increase in 158 days.
I have calculated that to be a +0.018889% increase per day (Used trial and error and a home programmed computer program... takes ages...)
Tien=286,225 Post King Kai
September 9 763 AD
Tien Arrives back from King Kai

10 Months
310 days
If 1.5x increase per 365 days
Calculated to + 1.001111% per day (Used trial and error and a home programmed computer program... takes ages...)
Tien=403,831
August 764
Frieza Arrives

2 Years, 9 Months, 20 days
1040 days(rounded)
Calculated to + 1.001111% per day (Used trial and error and a home programmed computer program... takes ages...)
Tien=1,281,510
May 20 767 AD
Tien Kikoho's Cell

7 years
2600 days(rounded)
Calculated to + 1.001111% per day (Used trial and error and a home programmed computer program... takes ages...)
Tien=22,989,422
May 8 774 AD
Tien Kikoho's Buu's attack

You can prove this is exact yourself.
Get a calculator, type in 100. Then type *1.001111=
Then press enter 364 more times. This will increase 100 to 149.97, which was as close as I could be fucked getting.

According to this, Tien>1,000,000

SSJBulma

I've never disputed that Tien couldn't break through and reach such a high level. Unfortunately for me, I don't think the same can be proven for Yamcha.
But this is a Tien thread, so I'll leave my Yamcha-Pooh aout of it.

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SSJ4 Vegito

Nice Job, Tien being over 1,000,000 is certinly possible in my eyes (I haven't decided were to put him on my PL list. So this helps, thanks!

Remixxx

Great job USSJED

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Tyro

The total time Tenshinhan spent on Kaio-sama's planet was 265 days, unless I missed something significant.

Five days on Kaio-sama's before Goku arrives on Namek.

Goku: "Aw, I've been there and done that! The G's I'll be putting myself through during the five days 'till I get to planet Namek make that look like nothing!"

I don't see Goku's time on Namek being more than a few hours. The Great Elder appoints Muri as the new elder, then the dragon balls are reusable again after 130 days pass. They had to use the dragon balls twice, that's 260 days.

260 + 5 = 265. Again, unless I missed something.

Where are you getting ten months from? The manga clearly says one year passes after everyone is wished back to life before Freeza arrives.

Narrator: "All too quickly, another year has passed...And Goku hasn't come home yet..."

These time periods are probably based on the Daizenshuu timeline. I'm not going to say that's a bad idea, but I would stick closer to the manga if I were you. The Daizenshuu is something to be noted in discussion, not something to be taken at face value. It's always secondary canon. But you probably already know that. Still, I would suggest going back over these periods of time.

As for the math and multipliers, I really don't give a damn. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm just saying that I don't care about battle strengths all this much to guess how much Fighter A gains in percentages per day. I only responded to this thread because I saw a mistake or two, and a few things open to interpretation that I thought I should mention. You'll have to argue with someone else if you want to discuss the math of Dragonball. So much is based on how you read things, it really comes down to who has the most logical view point based on all canonical evidence presented.

Good luck, though.

Hero