Ullr

how can you ignore everything else.

No manga has several mistakes
ex:Toriyama kills Freeza than brings him back in one chapter, has the Dragon capable of any wish than extremely limited, has characters constantly mention Vegeta killing them when it was Nappa or the Saibamen, forgets Lunch exists, Has Kaio be the god of the universe yet he's only the god of the northern universe later.
look what happened in the fight goku vs cell: goku destroyed cell's brain and later when cell destroys himself he explains his resurrection due to the fact a cell from his brain survived the explosion.I'm still waiting list 5 things out of any of the 7 books that contradict the manga out of pl's.

Need I go on? Innacuracy is no sign of Toriyama not being involved.

toriyama's introduction in daizenshuu 7

No,it is a fact.
Toriyama's staff under toriyama supervision worked to add the details he forgot to put in the manga.

How do you know ?he didn't power up and next he said something about to control himself even more.
About buutenks,sorry but at the time buutenks=piccolo knowledge about z-senshi power so that assumption doesn´t work.

Eventually but he was surprised and called him pretty strong.Do not compare buutenks with kaiohshin or freeza.

Read the manga it was stated.

who told you about ginyu wall ? Daizenshuu and the manga contradicts everything you are saying.Or else the daizenshuu would say except humans.
However it says all the z-senshii progressed very quickly after the freeza saga that's why there aren't more power levels.

!It is stated in daizenshuu 7 and japanese wikipedia,all the japanese refer to tenshinhan like a 三つ目人.

2-tenshinhan holds cell later saves dende and is referred by buu as pretty strong.

He never said nothing about humans.

Again you speak about a thing you don't know it was accurate enough for toriyama change the original manga in the new kazenban edition to match daizenshuu 7 pl's.

Essential.

Because he didn't powerup and next he said something like" i should control myself even more".Even if he did...

Are you dreaming????????????????

What?There isn't nothing about in the manga or daizenshuu about that assumption.Actually in the flashback he is training with gohan in the earth.
Conclusion:
there are 2 choices:
1-accept what toriyama and his manga staff tell us in daizenshuu
or
2-to follow fan guesses based in their beliefs.
I stay with toriyama staff.

Remixxx

Yes Gotenk buu called him a legendary fighter and fighter with a PL that some people give him like 50,000 ...buu wouldnt said that...

-Saying that just because a normal human has a pl of 5-6 doesnt work....why didnt he then called piccolo goten legendary?

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Devilz

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Hero

Alright before I begin I just wanna say something:

Is there anywhere where I can read the Daizenshuu for free online?

I'm not ignoring anything.

1) Frieza was never shown to be dead
2) Extremely limited? Explain.
3) He didn't forget lunch existed, he just stopped having her in scenes. It happens all the time...
4) That's not a mistake, the universe that Goku was in was ruled by King Kai, why would he tell goku about the other universes yet?
5) Are you seriously calling that a mistake? Is it so hard to believe that even one cell was capable of surviving.

I haven't read the Daizenshuu, so unless you can find somewhere where I can read it you'll be waiting a pretty long time.

Just because he absorbed Piccolo, doesn't give him all of his knowledge...

Who is kaioshin

I have read the manga and it was not stated, 30,000 is way too low anyways.

The manga does not contradict what I'm saying and the manga>daizenshuu in terms of accuracy.
No one told me about the Ginyu wall, its just what makes sense if you thought about it.

Again with the Daizenshuu...why don't you try to prove what its saying is true instead just quoting it and saying "DAIZENSHUU SAID ITS IS CORRECT LOL"

Once again, I'll need to take a look at the daizenshuu

Who saves dende? I thought it was Gohan. And I already said that Tien did that in an earlier post.

No it wasn't. Toriyama never changed the manga. The power level stating of Vegeta never existed.

If he said he should control himself more then that means he put a lot of power behind the kick...

Uh..no, maybe you should read the manga again. Where did you think he was after escaping Namek?

Gohan was dead by then..so if he was doing training he probably had his mom make a gravitron or something. I dunno, but capsule corp was a lot more advanced then...

Daizenshuu is just as accurate as fan guesses(if not less accurate) =/

All you're saying is

1) If the Daizenshuu said so its correct
2) Since Gotenks Buu called Tien strong he must be over a million!(even a million is nothing next to him.)

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Top 5 Manga:

1. Dragon Ball
2. One Piece
3. Hunter x Hunter
4. Vagabond
5. Hikaru No Go

Dragon Ball/Z Power Levels

Evil Vegeta

Why do people keep using Buu's reference to Tien in regards to his power level? Buu had Piccolo absorbed, and likely got his info from him. I'm pretty sure Buu didn't have a database like Gero on every single fighter on earth.

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Thanks to Sphinx's badass skills. Yay.

Dupe of USSJed

As Vegeta powers up to fight Recoombe, one of the Ginyu forces says he is at PL:20,000

They changed this in a rerelease to be 30,000

Tien blasts Gotenks Buu's attack with most likely(but not certainly) a Kikoho.

Ginyu wall, good name. But still, this is where people fall down as far as Human PL's go. Theres no evidence to suggest they cannot exceed 120,000. People just say "Nah theres no way Tien could surpass Captain Ginyu, fuck you this argument's over" when they have no evidence at all, and I am showing them evidence that shows they could indeed reach 1,000,000

Ullr

If for you cell explanation isn't a mistake forget it.But congratulations you are the first one.He forgot lunch he even forgot who kame sennin(master roshi)was.
These are facts.

Why do you want to see fan guesses?

Yes,it gives him all of his knowledge and brilliant mind watch the fight again.
During the fight buutenks tells us several details about piccolo techniques and how piccolo taught gohan in the past.
Again it is stated.

Jed already answered this one for me.
As Vegeta powers up to fight Recoombe, one of the Ginyu forces says he is at PL:20,000

They changed this in a rerelease to be 30,000

Because toriyama wrote several parts,explained many things in interviews for the daizenshuu,and specially because toriyama's manga staff knows more about dragon ball than you.
These guys even know more about dragon ball than toriyama.
Why?Because toriyama said they know more than himself due to the fact that he forgets many things.Plus daizenshuu 7 introduction written by tori tell us that we can find the details he forgot or couldn't write in the manga before.

Not full power.

You said goku trained with powerfull masters who could rival his power.

Toriyama's manga staff under his supervision revision and approval=fan guesses for you.Great!
Toriyama is supervising dragon ball online and he ignored dbgt.
Let me guess another fan guess.
He called him pretty strong:
1-coz he deflects an energy blast.Buutenks has piccolo's brilliant mind and if gohan is there he knows gohan can avoid the blast which means the blast has power.
Buutenks is surprised when tenshinhan deflects the energy blast.
Due to this fact and due to the fact that he has piccolo knowledge about tenshinhan pl.

Plus, even if several millions aren't nothing for buutenks,he was surprised that someone
apart from sayajins or piccolo could avoid that blast.Anyway a guy with piccolo's brains is not going to call a guy bellow i million,pretty strong,simply he couldn't avoid that blast.And he never talks about the great ginyu.

Remember even a weak blast made by someone like buutenks is very powerfull a lot stronger than one made by a weakling like ginyu.
And after that buutenks says even a kick given to a guy like tenshinhan koed him easily.
That explains again the previous point.
Ginyu pl in buu's saga isn't nothing.

No one ever even talks about ginyu,coz his pl in this saga is ridiculous for a z-senshi.
I gave you many examples.
When krillin is flying with gohan piccolo and goku,he says how worried he is with this battle,coz he isn't a ssj.

Why not, man i couldn't even surpass the all time great ginyu.
People say humans and tien could not surpass ginyu,because:

1-Ginyu was the second-strongest being in the entire universe,
no, he wasn't several guys were stronger than ginyu like yakon,puipui,freeza's father,etc.
Bhurta also said he was the fastest guy in the universe.But at the time goku ginyu and freeza were faster.

Some people can't understand the fact that toriyama was hyping ginyu force and ginyu to show how great goku was,it is a regular basic script technique used by writers,specially in japanese mangas.

Ginyu is not mentioned for the rest of the story obviously coz his pl was ridiculous for everyone in the remaining sagas.
Finally we have "they were humans"

1-nothing is stated ever about that fact,besides earlier in db or in the sayan saga
tenshinhan and the others were in the same range.

Hell even if piccolo is 50.000.000 stronger than tenshinhan it is logical to think that a z- senshi has at least 5 or 10 millions,previously the difference between them was in a few hundred units.
I believe goku was a sayajin at the time and piccolo a namek.
Human blood made goten gohan and trunks stronger than pure sayajins.Why? Human blood is weak after all.

2-in the 22 bt goku and krillin amazed with the fact that goku defeated so easily pamputte ask kame sennin how is that possible?
kame sennin says that panputte was strong for a human,but,goku,krillin,yamcha tenshinhan and chaoz are amazing beyond human imagination,
which means they progress a lot faster than regular humans.tenshinhan even has alien blood

3-training on earth without gravitron,so what are you calling them stupid or calling akira toriyama stupid?
everyone knows about about gravity,these guys are smat enough to train in different ways.
They always trained in the earth before and the gains were always amazing,the pl increase changes in dbz the power increase becomes faster.

Goten was close to trunks without gravity.
Goku ignored gravity after namek.

Nobody is going to train to have a pl beyond millions,specially tenshin who knows 3.000.000 pl was the requirement to use shin kk.
Piccolo came from 1.000.000 to at least 150.000.000.Why because krillin saw how a ssj fights everyone sensed trunks and goku ki before and he said piccolo fights like a ssj.
yes he was the namek who had only more a few hundreds than them them in sayan saga.
Everytime these guys train for a battle their pl's increase in an incredible fashion.
Never it is mentioned nothing about humans.

People keep saying the same things like that the stronger you get the harder it is to make gains in your power level,
well this is not true,this isn't stated in the japanese manga,the daizenshuu tell us the opposite,it becomes easier,vegeta also trains always in the same way and he increases his pl easily and all the time.
These guys are z-senshi=heroes,the same discussion was made before in bleach,where the same guys said captains could not beat espadas and they beat them.

In the japanese mangas things work this way,heroes win over minor villain characters in the next sagas.
Freeza is always mentioned in cell or buu saga,but ginyu isn't mentioned.

besides all the z-senshi learned how to meditate,i mean namek training system with kami.These guys know how to train.
A pl bellow 1 million in the next saga for a z-warrior is a joke.

Krillin said supreme kai wasn't impressive.Supreme kai could defeat freeza with a single shot.It's not established ever that humans don't make the HUGE gains.These guys made always huge gains even vegeta states how they improve in namek and previously they made similar gains in sayan and db sagas.

Dupe of USSJed

Please, write paragraphs, use correct grammar, and use less longer sentances instead of many short ones. It hurts my brain to read that. Nevertheless, I noticed two interesting things

? Hyping? What do you mean, when did he hype the Ginyu force?

I MIGHT just rep you for that if you can follow thru on that statement.

Ullr

Sorry i'm french and i shouldn't be here.I'm sorry.

Several times ex:saying ginyu was the 2nd strongest and bhurta the fastest.They weren't.

What can i do?
He said all of them were special humans,not normal ones like panputte and the others.
This is my last year in college,sorry if i don't have much time.

Dupe of USSJed

Start by posting the page if you have it...

gad_is_here

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Remixxx

Then he was also abel to dodge Super buus Human destroyer attack that was ment to kill him..there are so many parts that indicates of him having a high Power level...

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Dupe of USSJed

The human extinction attack could have been 4 billion PL:10 blasts. More than enough to take down a human.