JATFBT-Tien so totally >>>1,000,000 - Page 6

Devilz · 06-18-2008

When he splits his power is split equally too, I doubt it'd be effective training at all.

~~JC#1~~ · 06-18-2008

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Originally Posted by Tyro

It's all based on if you believe Tenshinhan trained for the year after being revived, as well as the seven year period between the Cell Game and Boo arc.

That should become your next debating thread if you want to make another.

Tien is always training. He's one of those fighters who always wants to be stronger. I bet Goku trained between the Piccollo Jr. arc and the Saiyan arc too, even though it was mainly the relaxation that allowed his power to settle down, and not be so stressed that it wouldn't rise. He wasn't fighting many big bad super villains, so his power wasn't all tensed up, so all that bundled up reserve power that they all have inside just slowly released (I'm talking about both Tien and Goku now) but they still trained to get the machine moving.

Devilz · 06-18-2008

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Originally Posted by JC#1

Tien is always training. He's one of those fighters who always wants to be stronger.

Then why did he turn down going into the time chamber when given the opportunity?

~~JC#1~~ · 06-18-2008

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Originally Posted by Devilz

Then why did he turn down going into the time chamber when given the opportunity?

I don't really remember that. I've only read the first 13 volumes of DB and first 2 volumes of DBZ. I've watched the entire anime, but I was succesful in eliminating all episodes from my head. I guess he thought it'd be better if he trained without it. I meant wants to be stronger then himself, not stronger than other's. He gave up getting stronger than Goku around the Saiyan or Freeza saga, because he knew he couldn't do it.

Ullr · 06-18-2008

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Daizenshuu is known to be incorrect. By the time Akira approved it he admitted to have forgotten all the pls had he written out. Don't believe me? Look at the pls he had for Goku/Freeza. Goku SSJ: 150,000,000 and Freeza 100%: 120,000,000. That's larger than the difference between Vegeta and Zarbon

No the daizenshu is not known to be incorrect.Daizenshuu pl's are arguable,but that's all.Name more mistakes in daizenshuu.
Plus manga has mistakes too and toriyama also said daizenshuu 7 has all the details he forgot to tell us in the manga.
It was made by toriyama's manga staff under toriyama supervision,but i guess some fans know more about dragon ball than them.
However,toriyama said his manga staff knows more about dragon ball than himself and that is a fact.
Consult rumour guide.
You are so worried about the difference between freeza and ssj goku,however you ignore the fact that reeccom almost killed krillin with a single a blow and buutenks could not kill tien.Next buutenks said this guy was pretty strong and look what happened to him"-original japanese manga
A main villain from buu's saga is not going to call a guy with a pl bellow millions pretty strong.Why?
It is out of context.

So how could a guy with 100.000 survive to a kick from a guy with billions?
Kaiohshin said he could kill freeza with a single blow without effort.
One last thing about daizenshuu.
In the original release of the manga, when Vegeta gets ready to fight Recoome, Jheeze reads his battle power as being 20,000. In Daizenshuu 7's battle power chart, Vegeta's battle power for when Goku arrives on Planet Namek (i.e. when he's fighting Recoome) is 30,000. As far as I know, this was the first place to ever give Vegeta's battle power from that time as being 30,000. Now in the kanzenban re-release of the manga, which featured such things as slightly revised artwork and a new ending by Toriyama, the dialogue from before Vegeta fights Recoome is changed so that Vegeta's battle power is now...30,000. So in other words, the re-release of the manga was edited so that Vegeta's battle power matched what it was given as in Daizenshuu 7.

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The Ginyu force were main characters(or at least captain ginyu was). Frieza's lackeys? The same could be said for Vegeta/Nappa/Raditz but you aren't calling them minor characters.

Ginyu was a main character the others are clowns.But so what?
I mean sayan saga has 3 major characters,raditz nappa and vegeta.
Z- senshi surpassed easily raditz in a couple months.Later in the next saga all of them surpassed nappa and vegeta pl from the previous saga easily.
This usually happens in japanese manga to minor villains characters and don't compare vegeta with them,coz vegeta became an heroe which means his status changed.

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Not the humans, after the Ginyu saga they were pretty much useless

Stated where?Tien is not considered human,but an half- breed like gohan.
Plus japanese fans rate tenshinhan as an half alien.
å¤©æ´¥é£¯ (ãƒ‰ãƒ©ã‚´ãƒ³ãƒœãƒ¼ãƒ«) - Wikipedia

The past tell us a different story and daizenshuu 4-official source tell us
all the warriors improved quickly after freeza saga.That is the reason why there are no power levels after freeza saga.In dbz everytime they train for big battle their pl improves a lot.

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What?

It is latin,expression used in the court of law.

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Uh...maybe because a)Tien>Krillin and b) Buutenks wasn't putting all his power behind that kick?

It doesn't matter if tenshin »krillin.Reeccom wasn't putting all his power behind that kick too and krillin almost died.
Are you comparing the difference between krillin reeccom to buutenks tenshin?
Again buutenks called him pretty strong.
The result should be instant death.Remember what kaioshin said about freeza.

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Let's go all the way back to dragon ball:

1) Trained with Grandpa Gohan
2) Trained with Roshi
3) Trained with Korin
4) Trained with Kami
5) Trained on his own a bit in the gap between DB and DBZ, but had a very very small pl increase
6) Trained with King Kai
7) Trained under 100x normal gravity
8) Trained with powerful master on Yaidrat
9) Trained in the other world with people like Pikkon to spar, many kais
10) Trained with Uub.

He trained alone for the 22 bt coz training with krillin would not be effective- kame sennin words.
He trained alone to namek.
Pikkon is filler,i saw him training alone to the 25 bt.
Powerful master on Yaidrat??????they only taught him shunkanido.

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Piccolo was stated to be training "fiercely" before Freeza arrived. His power level would be above his power when he fought Freeza. Piccolo could've lost many battles against SSJ Goku, but his power would still continue to increase.

Stated where?Anyway everybody trained fiercily at the time.
According to you to train without sparring partner or gravity no gains.
Well piccolo trained alone.
However, piccolo and all the others were impressed with goku's improvements since the battle against freeza and that is a stated fact in the manga.
Base piccolo could not compete with a ssj.Ssj increases your pl 50 times.
Piccolo never surpassed base goku before.Base goku in namek was more powerfull than piccolo how can piccolo surpass him before those 3 years?

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And about the Shin ki ko ho:

1) Its the most powerful attack on the show
2) Semi Perfect Cell was caught off guard, which most of the time in DBZ means the attack is a lot more effective
3) Semi Perfect Cell was likely nowhere near his full power.

It isn't known how far it is from the actual power levels Akira thought of back in the 80's. Nevertheless, evidence points towards Tien being less than one million.

The strongest attack was spirit bomb not shin kikoho.The only stated thing we have about shin kikoho is in daizenshuu.
There it says you need to have an enormous pl to perform the technique.
2-semi pc was caught off-guard once what about the rest of the time.It is a fact tenshinhan holds him and he was furious.
3-Semi Perfect Cell wasn't l nowhere near his full power when he koed c-16 with a single punch.

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Nevertheless, evidence points towards Tien being less than one million.

No, evidence points towards Tien being a lot more than one million.
Look at the bojack movie daizenshuu and even some facts from the manga, even math proves he was beyond 1 million.
In the original japanese movie.Tenshinhan said "trunks you don't need to hold back against me"
Trunks replied:"OK"

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He can split form? When was this stated, lol?(I'm not accusing you of lying, I just have never heard of this)

It is stated in the manga and daizenshuu, actually 4 clones is a technique who results
from tenshin's alien blood.

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tien probably could split into one and spar, but I'm not quite sure about that. It just all depends if you believe he can.

Not probably, he could use it to spar,it is stated, actually it is logical and it helps.
If tenshinhan has a pl of 100.000 and he splits in 4 each tenshinhan will have 25.000.
If chaoz has 25.000 he can spar with him,spar against himself and use the fourth clone to meditate.

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Then why did he turn down going into the time chamber when given the opportunity?

Because he couldn't surpass cell in 2 days or 2years-stated in the manga.Why not a line like"are you crazy 'm ultra weak what i'm going to do with a 100.000 pl.or i couldnt' surpass freeza first from why the hell did you invite me to train.
It makes more sense.Why did he use cell's name?Why not the great ginyu.

Dupe of USSJed · 06-18-2008

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So the power level of the master actually does matter.

If you carefully read my post I said it does not matter as much as the knowledge of the master.

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When he splits his power is split equally too, I doubt it'd be effective training at all.

That is not very good logic. If you train with a partner, your power increases much faster than training by yourself (Stated by Trunks), also, as you increase in power your increase will slow down(stated by Goku), which means a 1,000,000 Tien could split into 10,000 PL:100 Tiens to start from the ground up, and then reform...

And x1.03 per year? What are you, nuts? Piccolo increased by x50-x90 in one year. You think training with an SSJ would provide that boost, if training on your own is only x1.03? Piccolo increased by x8.75 in one year, that number, although it is referring to a Namekian, is a very good guideline, and shows that increases for a year of normal training could very well be in the 2x-5x range for someone like Tien.

As for the idea that training on Earth after King Kai might be lower than before King Kai, the idea has merit I will admit, but keep in mind that Tien could just A) Split Form Train or B) Just train much harder. Instead of lifting 100kg weights, lift 10,000kg weights, instead of running at mach 1, run at 50% the speed of light, do 800,000 push ups per minute with half a ton on your back...

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So how could a guy with 100.000 survive to a kick from a guy with billions?

With as much difficulty as someone with 1,000,000 survive to a kick from a guy with billions?

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Stated where?Anyway everybody trained fiercily at the time.
According to you to train without sparring partner or gravity no gains.
Well piccolo trained alone.

However, piccolo and all the others were impressed with goku's improvements since the battle against freeza and that is a stated fact in the manga

-? Can you quote that please, I only have a scanlation...

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Base piccolo could not compete with a ssj.Ssj increases your pl 50 times.
Piccolo never surpassed base goku before.Base goku in namek was more powerfull than piccolo how can piccolo surpass him before those 3 years?

Piccolo=Super Namek

Perhaps Super Namek has a multiplier too?

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The strongest attack was spirit bomb not shin kikoho.The only stated thing we have about shin kikoho is in daizenshuu.
There it says you need to have an enormous pl to perform the technique.

Can you give the exact quote? What does the Daizenshuu consider enormous?

Dupe of USSJed · 06-18-2008

Doh double posted.

Ullr · 06-18-2008

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With as much difficulty as someone with 1,000,000 survive to a kick from a guy with billions?

He survived,didn't he?Probably millions give him an extra-protection.I don't know,but he called him pretty strong in buu's saga,later.

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Piccolo=Super Namek

Perhaps Super Namek has a multiplier too?

Super namek is a condition who results from a higher pl than a regular ssj.
Piccolo cannot transfrom.Why do you think base piccolo is useless in buu's saga.

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Can you give the exact quote? What does the Daizenshuu consider enormous?

They don't give us a number
But kaioh ken x 20 is weaker than shin kikoko and requires a power level of 3.000.000 to use it which means tenshinhan should have a pl at least above 3 millions to perform shin kk.

Dupe of USSJed · 06-18-2008

Hmmm, the Kaoken argument intriuges me(probably misspelled that)

Not all transformations are physical FYI. Base Piccolo exceeds #17, so that means Base Vegeta must exceed that by the end of Z by your argument. IF that is true, it means x1.03(I hate that number) is a ridiculously low amount...

Keep in mind, before anyone says "GRAVITY CHAMBAH" that you can replace "Vegeta" with any of the Saiyans.

Ullr · 06-18-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by USSJed

Hmmm, the Kaoken argument intriuges me(probably misspelled that)

Not all transformations are physical FYI. Base Piccolo exceeds #17, so that means Base Vegeta must exceed that by the end of Z by your argument. IF that is true, it means x1.03(I hate that number) is a ridiculously low amount...

Keep in mind, before anyone says "GRAVITY CHAMBAH" that you can replace "Vegeta" with any of the Saiyans.

Sorry but it is the same gravity chamber who didn't help much trunks to beat goten or helped vegeta to surpass goku.
Its is stated in the daizenshuu tenshinhan must have a pl above 3.000.000 to use a technique like shin kikoho and he must train harder too.People will say daizenshuu doesn't count,however we are talking about informations given by toriyama's manga staff under his supervision.
According daizenshuu 7 ssj2 doubles the power of a ssj.

Dupe of USSJed · 06-18-2008

What does it say about SSJ3? or Mastered SSJ?

Ullr · 06-18-2008

There are 3 levels before ssj2
1-regular ssj
2-vegeta transformation
3-trunks/broly ultra ,muscles
About ssj3 it says mystic gohan is stronger than ssj3

Hero · 06-18-2008

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Originally Posted by Ullr

No the daizenshu is not known to be incorrect.Daizenshuu pl's are arguable,but that's all.Name more mistakes in daizenshuu.

Like I said, I haven't read the daizenshuu, but those 2 power levels are well known as a big mistake.

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Plus manga has mistakes too

How does the manga have mistakes? If it was written by Toriyama in HIS story then its correct.

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and toriyama also said daizenshuu 7 has all the details he forgot to tell us in the manga.

Source?

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It was made by toriyama's manga staff under toriyama supervision,but i guess some fans know more about dragon ball than them.
However,toriyama said his manga staff knows more about dragon ball than himself and that is a fact.

So? It can still be wrong. Keep in mind the Daizenshuu was written many years after Dragon Ball was finished, you don't know if the staff continued it.

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You are so worried about the difference between freeza and ssj goku,

Worried? No, I was just stating the most obvious mistake fans have seen.

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however you ignore the fact that reeccom almost killed krillin with a single a blow and buutenks could not kill tien.Next buutenks said this guy was pretty strong and look what happened to him"-original japanese manga
A main villain from buu's saga is not going to call a guy with a pl bellow millions pretty strong.Why?
It is out of context.

Reacoome put a lot more behind that kick than Buutenks did.

And he called him pretty strong because most of the humans were at pls of around 5-7. If some human at 100,000 comes along, obviously you're going to be pretty surprised.

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So how could a guy with 100.000 survive to a kick from a guy with billions?

How could a guy with 1,000,000 survive a kick from a guy in the billions?

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Kaiohshin said he could kill freeza with a single blow without effort.

He could do that with Tien too, he just chose not to.

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One last thing about daizenshuu.
In the original release of the manga, when Vegeta gets ready to fight Recoome, Jheeze reads his battle power as being 20,000. In Daizenshuu 7's battle power chart, Vegeta's battle power for when Goku arrives on Planet Namek (i.e. when he's fighting Recoome) is 30,000. As far as I know, this was the first place to ever give Vegeta's battle power from that time as being 30,000. Now in the kanzenban re-release of the manga, which featured such things as slightly revised artwork and a new ending by Toriyama, the dialogue from before Vegeta fights Recoome is changed so that Vegeta's battle power is now...30,000. So in other words, the re-release of the manga was edited so that Vegeta's battle power matched what it was given as in Daizenshuu 7.

Ok, well first of all Vegeta's power level was never stated then. And second of all whoever put it at 20,000 really needs to get their brain checked because he started the saga off with 24,000...

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Ginyu was a main character the others are clowns.But so what?
I mean sayan saga has 3 major characters,raditz nappa and vegeta.
Z- senshi surpassed easily raditz in a couple months.Later in the next saga all of them surpassed nappa and vegeta pl from the previous saga easily.

Ok, the others aren't. Krillin/Yamcha/Tien can all have surpassed the four members by the android saga, but not Captain Ginyu.

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Stated where?Tien is not considered human,but an half- breed like gohan.
Plus japanese fans rate tenshinhan as an half alien.
å¤©æ´¥é£¯ (ãƒ‰ãƒ©ã‚´ãƒ³ãƒœãƒ¼ãƒ«) - Wikipedia

1) I've never heard Tien being referred to as a half breed.

2) It wasn't stated...you just have to know the story of DBZ :P. After the Ginyu saga, the humans did noting else useful against the villains for the rest of DBZ.

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The past tell us a different story and daizenshuu 4-official source tell us
all the warriors improved quickly after freeza saga.That is the reason why there are no power levels after freeza saga.In dbz everytime they train for big battle their pl improves a lot.

Would you stop using the Daizenshuu as evidence? Its not as accurate as you think.

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It is latin,expression used in the court of law.

Ah, I see. What does it mean?

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It doesn't matter if tenshin »krillin.Reeccom wasn't putting all his power behind that kick too and krillin almost died.
Are you comparing the difference between krillin reeccom to buutenks tenshin?
Again buutenks called him pretty strong.
The result should be instant death.Remember what kaioshin said about freeza.

How do you know Reacoome wasn't putting all his power behind the kick?
And I've already adressed the rest earlier in this post.

I'm guessing the rest wasn't directed at me.

Hero · 06-18-2008

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They don't give us a number
But kaioh ken x 20 is weaker than shin kikoko and requires a power level of 3.000.000 to use it which means tenshinhan should have a pl at least above 3 millions to perform shin kk.

Well, as I've said before the Daizenshuu is not the most accurate thing ever.

Besides, KK is more like a transformation, not an attack. And how do you know Goku couldn't use it at 90,000?

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Keep in mind, before anyone says "GRAVITY CHAMBAH" that you can replace "Vegeta" with any of the Saiyans.

Trunks: trained is his future likely with the same gravitron
Gohan: sparred with SSJ Goku
Goku: Recieved training on Yaidrat, trained with 2 other people who eventually began to rival his base power

06-18-2008	#82 (permalink)
Dupe of USSJed (28) Lord of Worlds Join Date: May 2008 Location: drawing. Im kinda the best drawer in my class , not to brag or anything Posts: 7,707 Rep Power: 202	Re: JATFBT-Tien so totally >>>1,000,000 Doh double posted.

06-18-2008	#84 (permalink)
Dupe of USSJed (28) Lord of Worlds Join Date: May 2008 Location: drawing. Im kinda the best drawer in my class , not to brag or anything Posts: 7,707 Rep Power: 202	Re: JATFBT-Tien so totally >>>1,000,000 Hmmm, the Kaoken argument intriuges me(probably misspelled that) Not all transformations are physical FYI. Base Piccolo exceeds #17, so that means Base Vegeta must exceed that by the end of Z by your argument. IF that is true, it means x1.03(I hate that number) is a ridiculously low amount... Keep in mind, before anyone says "GRAVITY CHAMBAH" that you can replace "Vegeta" with any of the Saiyans.

06-18-2008	#86 (permalink)
Dupe of USSJed (28) Lord of Worlds Join Date: May 2008 Location: drawing. Im kinda the best drawer in my class , not to brag or anything Posts: 7,707 Rep Power: 202	Re: JATFBT-Tien so totally >>>1,000,000 What does it say about SSJ3? or Mastered SSJ?

06-18-2008	#87 (permalink)
Ullr (6) Disciple of Kami Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 45 Rep Power: 0	Re: JATFBT-Tien so totally >>>1,000,000 There are 3 levels before ssj2 1-regular ssj 2-vegeta transformation 3-trunks/broly ultra ,muscles About ssj3 it says mystic gohan is stronger than ssj3