JATFBT-Tien so totally >>>1,000,000 - Page 11

the predator · 06-21-2008

but his OWN training is much more efficient than other characters' (besides Piccolo) so he increases alot, no not as much as the others but he increases nonetheless. I mean basically we're not saying if Tien is stronger than Goku but if he could've achieved 1000,000. For crap's sake Goku is I-don't-know how many million do you think Tien through his persistent training couldn't make it to 1000,000 at the increase rate stated above? Your logic is flawed then. Can't see why you can't give him what he deserves.

in relation to zenkai:Krillin mentioned it once saying 'he seems to have gotten stronger' AND Goku beat K. Piccolo with no training AFTER being trashed by him before

EDIT: All these posts are in reference to USSJed's theory of a 1.5x increase per year, I'm proving why Tien can have a 1.5x increase through his own training because the only way you can contradict that fact that he can't reach 1000,000 is by saying that he can't increase 1.5x per year

Hero · 06-21-2008

There is no evidence as to why Tien's increase rate would stay the same all the way through DBZ. I think we all can agree that the stronger you get, the better the training you're gonna need. Sure Tien gained power pretty quickly, but besides that being an obvious plot device(but yes i realize thts a stupid argument) he isn't going to gain that much later. And like I already said, he most likely got his biggest increase training with Kami, not himself. And after his King Kai training, training on earth isn't going to do very little for him, just face it Tien<<<a million.

the predator · 06-21-2008

I already proved why Tien's increase was mostly related to HIM and not Kami because Goku trained with Kami for 3 years and he didn't have the same increase rate that Tien had in his 6 months of training.

And as for his consistency I don't know about that but seeing Tien's efficiency at training himself I think he was rather consistent enough to go above a 1000,000

as an added element the daizenshuu (mispell) rates Tien's PL at around 700 000 000 at some time in DBZ. Now I know that the daizenshuu is greatly flawed but is it THAT flawed that you can turn 700 million to less than 1 million. Come on be real

Hero · 06-21-2008

Ugh not the daizenshuu agrument again...you're starting to sound like that Ullr guy.

Goku was a little kid when he trained, Tien was a grown man, who had gone though much more physical endurance, and had yamcha and krillin to spar with. Goku had what? Mr. Popo?

the predator · 06-21-2008

At the time Goku was 15 and Mr. Popo was stronger than him therefore he should've had a better workout and Goku should've had a larger increase rate since he was so young (proven fact: young means you learn more) plus do you think Yamcha and Krillin sparring with him gave him a 700+ increase when compared to the 2 1/2 more years of training than Goku did. Does that sound logical to you? .

And I agree with you that the daizenshuu is WRONG but it has some rightness in it, its not TOTALLY wrong.

Anyways I've made my point you guys are just way too stubborn. I can't see why you find it so hard to believe that Tien is 1000,000 when Goku's BASE form is at around 3000,000,000. Surely through all that training Tien must have at least gained some small fraction of Goku's BASE form. This is my last post if I don't find a decent answer that contradicts everything I said.

Hero · 06-21-2008

Well I don't think Goku's base is anywhere near 3 billion, but I haven't really tried to calculate buu saga power levels.

Ok so if we went from 700,000,000 to 1,000,000 instead of 100,000 its really that big of a difference?

And how the hell is that a proven fact? The increases when the Z-fighters were young in DB are much much smaller than in DBZ when they are older.

And think of it like this: Tien starts of sparring Mr. Popo, he gets stronger than him. Krillin and Yamcha also have done this, and they are also stronger. Tien, Yamcha, and Krillin now all spar with eachother and continue to get stronger off eachother. Once Goku surpassed Mr. Popo, what else could he do? Try to survive in the ROSAT? He was too weak for that.

the predator · 06-21-2008

Tien, Yamcha and Krillin are already stronger than Popo, I don't think we SHOULD go from 700 million to just 1 I think its much closer than that (not by a whole lot)

have you ever heard of the saying 'you can't teach an old dog new tricks?'

the DBZ increases are larger mostly because of divine training, gravitron training and RoSaT but if you take Gohan, Goten and Trunks for example they hardly get much better but that's off topic since it goes to GT so we won't delve into that.

I think we should stop, I've had many discussions and I see that you and I will never agree thanks for the great argument though.

Dupe of USSJed · 06-22-2008

Quote:

as an added element the daizenshuu (mispell) rates Tien's PL at around 700 000 000 at some time in DBZ. Now I know that the daizenshuu is greatly flawed but is it THAT flawed that you can turn 700 million to less than 1 million. Come on be real

What?

Now then, like I said earlier, if Tien can increase by an AVERAGE of 1.5x per year(well within what has been shown to occur in the series), he can surpass 1,000,000 by the Buu Saga

If he was only 10,000 after King Kai, and increased by 1.5x per year, he would reach 32,252,570 by the End of Dragon Ball Z. I want people to stop with this "Oh he couldn't keep up a x1.5 every year" argument, because this is my flawless counter argument to that.

You:"Oh he couldn't keep up a x1.5 every year"
Me:"Alright, perhaps then he increased by a much larger numberearly on, and then eventually that decreased to a much smaller number."

I only use x1.5 as an example. Based on Piccolo, Tien could easily be getting x3-4 per year.

Ok, all Tien<<1 million believers, answer me this question. Are you thinking Tien is >>1,000,000 because of evidence, or personal opinion. If evidence, please provide it here.

If someone posts "But you don't have concrete evidence either!" then that person is fucking retarded, because I simply asked for the evidence against Tien.

the predator · 06-22-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by USSJed

What?

Now then, like I said earlier, if Tien can increase by an AVERAGE of 1.5x per year(well within what has been shown to occur in the series), he can surpass 1,000,000 by the Buu Saga

If he was only 10,000 after King Kai, and increased by 1.5x per year, he would reach 32,252,570 by the End of Dragon Ball Z. I want people to stop with this "Oh he couldn't keep up a x1.5 every year" argument, because this is my flawless counter argument to that.

You:"Oh he couldn't keep up a x1.5 every year"
Me:"Alright, perhaps then he increased by a much larger numberearly on, and then eventually that decreased to a much smaller number."

I only use x1.5 as an example. Based on Piccolo, Tien could easily be getting x3-4 per year.

Ok, all Tien<<1 million believers, answer me this question. Are you thinking Tien is >>1,000,000 because of evidence, or personal opinion. If evidence, please provide it here.

If someone posts "But you don't have concrete evidence either!" then that person is fucking retarded, because I simply asked for the evidence against Tien.

meh I can't be bothered to find it again, forget I said anything. Daizenshuu is crap, I mean two or more daizenshuus don't even agree!

I already did, its evidence that supports your 1.5x increase per year theory.

Dupe of USSJed · 06-22-2008

Are you thinking Tien is <<1,000,000 because of evidence, or personal opinion. If evidence, please provide it here.

Suppost to face << way...

Hero · 06-22-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by USSJed

Are you thinking Tien is <<1,000,000 because of evidence, or personal opinion. If evidence, please provide it here.

Suppost to face << way...

Ok well your own Minimal Increase Theory is contradicting everything you're saying.

And I dunno what you would consider evidence, but here we go.

Tien never did any special training after King Kai's, I fail to see why he would gain half of his power level every year
Don't compare him to Piccolo who, Fused twice(which in the dbz world = BIG increases), trained for three years with a super saiyan and a half-saiyan, trained in the RoSAT
Goku, while heading towards Namek, implied that once he had mastered the 50g it wouldn't do him much good anymore. Tien, after mastering King Kai's training, did isolated training on low gravity levels for the rest of his life, his increases are going to be minimal
Tien never did any fighting after the Saiyan saga, I see no reason for him to be so high

Also, I wanna ask you a question, why on earth do you think this 1.5x multiplier is reasonable?(and don't base it on Piccolo) It might seem small, but in reality its huge.

Dupe of USSJed · 06-23-2008

Quote:

Ok well your own Minimal Increase Theory is contradicting everything you're saying.

Thats a theory. I don't actually support that theory in any way, I just posted it to get it out there.

Your evidence is not concrete evidence. It all refers to the training Tien did. And as for your question.

I will indeed base it on Piccolo(Disprove Tien without referring to training then), as Piccolo increasing by 8.75x in one year gives a FAR more accurate idea of power level increases in the Dragon Universe than the opinion of a fan. Applying the real life universe, I would not suggest Tien could become 50% stronger per year, or that Piccolo could become 8.75x stronger in a year, or that Krillin could lift a Truck... But when you see that Piccolo managed 8.75x then it becomes apparant that you can expect whole number multipliers for training, not tiny fractions. It seems anyone can become many times stronger thru training.

Also, is this thing I found true? I think its from the Daizenshuu...

Quote:

Fighter-type: Fighter Nameks are the most powerful of the Nameks, being much stronger than other Nameks in combat ability. Nail is the only one of this type seen, as Piccolo is technically a Dragon-type Namekian. Power Levels of Fighter-type Nameks estimate at 40,000 and beyond.

Which would disprove the Piccolo is a warrior type and so can increase 40x faster than anyone else theory if it is True.

Hero · 06-23-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by USSJed

Thats a theory. I don't actually support that theory in any way, I just posted it to get it out there.

So you posted a theory you don't even believe in? Wtf?

Quote:

Your evidence is not concrete evidence. It all refers to the training Tien did.

What's that supposed to mean? Because it refers to his training, which is the only way humans gain pl in DB/Z, its not valid? Maybe you should actually try to counter it?

Quote:

I will indeed base it on Piccolo(Disprove Tien without referring to training then), as Piccolo increasing by 8.75x in one year gives a FAR more accurate idea of power level increases in the Dragon Universe than the opinion of a fan. Applying the real life universe, I would not suggest Tien could become 50% stronger per year, or that Piccolo could become 8.75x stronger in a year, or that Krillin could lift a Truck... But when you see that Piccolo managed 8.75x then it becomes apparant that you can expect whole number multipliers for training, not tiny fractions. It seems anyone can become many times stronger thru training.

You can't compare him to Piccolo, who sparred with a fucking SSJ, when all he did was isolated training.

Quote:

Also, is this thing I found true? I think its from the Daizenshuu...

Source?

Quote:

Which would disprove the Piccolo is a warrior type and so can increase 40x faster than anyone else theory if it is True.

Eh, I've never heard that theory.

Also, another question:

Would you put Krillin or Yamcha above one million? If not, why not?

Dupe of USSJed · 06-23-2008

Quote:

You can't compare him to Piccolo, who sparred with a fucking SSJ, when all he did was isolated training.

I am referring to SAIYAN SAGA.

Quote:

What's that supposed to mean? Because it refers to his training, which is the only way humans gain pl in DB/Z, its not valid? Maybe you should actually try to counter it?

Ok, counter it I shall. The Kikoho had an effect on Cell. Nuff said.

Quote:

Source?

Some Namekian Blog thing, I have seen the exact quoted text many times, but not sure where.

Quote:

Would you put Krillin or Yamcha above one million? If not, why not?

No, purely because I don't give a shit where they are, and so haven't paid the slightest attention to their training.

Hero · 06-23-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by USSJed

I am referring to SAIYAN SAGA.

Eh? Tien gained a lot there too, that was pre-King Kai training, where Tien could still get a reasonable boost from earth training, afterwards it was pretty insignificant.

Quote:

Ok, counter it I shall. The Kikoho had an effect on Cell. Nuff said.

1) I doubt Cell was at full power, or even close to it
2) Cell had no damage done to him, he was simply knocked down. Many times in DBZ if you surprise attack someone it has has an effect on them(one example being when Piccolo and Krillin surprise attacked Nappa and sent him flying)

Quote:

No, purely because I don't give a shit where they are, and so haven't paid the slightest attention to their training.

xD. Well, if you think Tien was>>a million after the three years of training in the Android Saga, why couldn't they be?

06-21-2008	#151 (permalink)
the predator (21) Majin Warrior Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,692 Rep Power: 14	Re: JATFBT-Tien so totally >>>1,000,000 but his OWN training is much more efficient than other characters' (besides Piccolo) so he increases alot, no not as much as the others but he increases nonetheless. I mean basically we're not saying if Tien is stronger than Goku but if he could've achieved 1000,000. For crap's sake Goku is I-don't-know how many million do you think Tien through his persistent training couldn't make it to 1000,000 at the increase rate stated above? Your logic is flawed then. Can't see why you can't give him what he deserves. in relation to zenkai:Krillin mentioned it once saying 'he seems to have gotten stronger' AND Goku beat K. Piccolo with no training AFTER being trashed by him before EDIT: All these posts are in reference to USSJed's theory of a 1.5x increase per year, I'm proving why Tien can have a 1.5x increase through his own training because the only way you can contradict that fact that he can't reach 1000,000 is by saying that he can't increase 1.5x per year

06-21-2008	#152 (permalink)
Hero (24) Super Saiyan 4 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: USA Posts: 3,166 Rep Power: 135	Re: JATFBT-Tien so totally >>>1,000,000 There is no evidence as to why Tien's increase rate would stay the same all the way through DBZ. I think we all can agree that the stronger you get, the better the training you're gonna need. Sure Tien gained power pretty quickly, but besides that being an obvious plot device(but yes i realize thts a stupid argument) he isn't going to gain that much later. And like I already said, he most likely got his biggest increase training with Kami, not himself. And after his King Kai training, training on earth isn't going to do very little for him, just face it Tien<<<a million. __________________ Top 5 Manga: 1. Dragon Ball 2. One Piece 3. Hunter x Hunter 4. Vagabond 5. Hikaru No Go Dragon Ball/Z Power Levels

06-21-2008	#153 (permalink)
the predator (21) Majin Warrior Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,692 Rep Power: 14	Re: JATFBT-Tien so totally >>>1,000,000 I already proved why Tien's increase was mostly related to HIM and not Kami because Goku trained with Kami for 3 years and he didn't have the same increase rate that Tien had in his 6 months of training. And as for his consistency I don't know about that but seeing Tien's efficiency at training himself I think he was rather consistent enough to go above a 1000,000 as an added element the daizenshuu (mispell) rates Tien's PL at around 700 000 000 at some time in DBZ. Now I know that the daizenshuu is greatly flawed but is it THAT flawed that you can turn 700 million to less than 1 million. Come on be real

06-21-2008	#154 (permalink)
Hero (24) Super Saiyan 4 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: USA Posts: 3,166 Rep Power: 135	Re: JATFBT-Tien so totally >>>1,000,000 Ugh not the daizenshuu agrument again...you're starting to sound like that Ullr guy. Goku was a little kid when he trained, Tien was a grown man, who had gone though much more physical endurance, and had yamcha and krillin to spar with. Goku had what? Mr. Popo? __________________ Top 5 Manga: 1. Dragon Ball 2. One Piece 3. Hunter x Hunter 4. Vagabond 5. Hikaru No Go Dragon Ball/Z Power Levels

06-21-2008	#155 (permalink)
the predator (21) Majin Warrior Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,692 Rep Power: 14	Re: JATFBT-Tien so totally >>>1,000,000 At the time Goku was 15 and Mr. Popo was stronger than him therefore he should've had a better workout and Goku should've had a larger increase rate since he was so young (proven fact: young means you learn more) plus do you think Yamcha and Krillin sparring with him gave him a 700+ increase when compared to the 2 1/2 more years of training than Goku did. Does that sound logical to you? . And I agree with you that the daizenshuu is WRONG but it has some rightness in it, its not TOTALLY wrong. Anyways I've made my point you guys are just way too stubborn. I can't see why you find it so hard to believe that Tien is 1000,000 when Goku's BASE form is at around 3000,000,000. Surely through all that training Tien must have at least gained some small fraction of Goku's BASE form. This is my last post if I don't find a decent answer that contradicts everything I said.

06-21-2008	#156 (permalink)
Hero (24) Super Saiyan 4 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: USA Posts: 3,166 Rep Power: 135	Re: JATFBT-Tien so totally >>>1,000,000 Well I don't think Goku's base is anywhere near 3 billion, but I haven't really tried to calculate buu saga power levels. Ok so if we went from 700,000,000 to 1,000,000 instead of 100,000 its really that big of a difference? And how the hell is that a proven fact? The increases when the Z-fighters were young in DB are much much smaller than in DBZ when they are older. And think of it like this: Tien starts of sparring Mr. Popo, he gets stronger than him. Krillin and Yamcha also have done this, and they are also stronger. Tien, Yamcha, and Krillin now all spar with eachother and continue to get stronger off eachother. Once Goku surpassed Mr. Popo, what else could he do? Try to survive in the ROSAT? He was too weak for that. __________________ Top 5 Manga: 1. Dragon Ball 2. One Piece 3. Hunter x Hunter 4. Vagabond 5. Hikaru No Go Dragon Ball/Z Power Levels

06-21-2008	#157 (permalink)
the predator (21) Majin Warrior Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,692 Rep Power: 14	Re: JATFBT-Tien so totally >>>1,000,000 Tien, Yamcha and Krillin are already stronger than Popo, I don't think we SHOULD go from 700 million to just 1 I think its much closer than that (not by a whole lot) have you ever heard of the saying 'you can't teach an old dog new tricks?' the DBZ increases are larger mostly because of divine training, gravitron training and RoSaT but if you take Gohan, Goten and Trunks for example they hardly get much better but that's off topic since it goes to GT so we won't delve into that. I think we should stop, I've had many discussions and I see that you and I will never agree thanks for the great argument though.

06-22-2008	#160 (permalink)
Dupe of USSJed (28) Lord of Worlds Join Date: May 2008 Location: drawing. Im kinda the best drawer in my class , not to brag or anything Posts: 7,707 Rep Power: 202	Re: JATFBT-Tien so totally >>>1,000,000 Are you thinking Tien is <<1,000,000 because of evidence, or personal opinion. If evidence, please provide it here. Suppost to face << way...