About Mystic/Ultimate Gohan & decreasing ssj multiplier. - Page 2

uki1234 · 06-11-2008

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Originally Posted by Evil Vegeta

The multiplier doesn't have to be 50x, but the multiplier is more then 3x which is nonsense. You believing Goku is shown to be a lot stronger is based on Goku barely dodging a Kienzan, which is also nonsense. He barely dodged the attack, he didn't perfectly dodge it at all. Show me another reason why Goku is much stronger in base?

Who said Trunks would be ahead of Future Gohan in month's? Oh, that's right; Gohan said it, because it would totally make sense for him to tell his pupil he's going to get better as time goes by. There would be no reason for him to say otherwise.

Vegeta didn't go from about 2,400,000 to around 100,000,000+ since that's also nonsense. He would've probably got up to 10-12,000,000 at the most in the 300x gravity training. Therefore, that 3x is incorrect, and too low, stop using it.

By the way, Piccolo couldn't see Freeza's movements when he was in his first suppression using those finger beams, but he could see Freeza when he was battling with Goku, and even stated that neither were going all-out with their power. I guess Piccolo was much stronger since his battle with Freeza a bit earlier, right?

"He barely dodged the attack, he didn't perfectly dodge it at all. Show me another reason why Goku is much stronger in base?"

I already gave you an example which shows that he was unable to even see, not dodge anything when he was in kaioken 10x. Other reason? Thats the only time he was shown to be in base, and he was healed...

Piccolo isn't' shown to be able to see their movements. Stop inventing things... Piccolo couldn't even see death beam which would kill Gohan...

"There would be no reason for him to say otherwise."

. Yea it would be great to tell such a lie to him, and make him overconfident... Gohan isn't a lier... Besides Trunks can sense ki you know. He isn't an idiot. He would know that thats a lie...

Trunks actually wanted to fight androids as well. So he would have to be total idiot to think he can fight them, if he was 50 times weaker than Gohan.

"Vegeta didn't go from about 2,400,000 to around 100,000,000+ since that's also nonsense. He would've probably got up to 10-12,000,000 at the most in the 300x gravity training."

This only shows how good your common sense is

. The only thing that doesn't make sense here is that Vegeta should gain same increase as Goku when he was training at 300 times higher gravity.

Evil Vegeta · 06-11-2008

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Originally Posted by uki1234

I already gave you an example which shows that he was unable to even see, not dodge anything when he was in kaioken 10x. Other reason? Thats the only time he was shown to be in base, and he was healed...

Yeah, and a very awful example as well. Your entire argument is based on this Kienzan, and it barely missed by the way. That's not called perfectly dodging anything.

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Piccolo isn't' shown to be able to see their movements. Stop inventing things... Piccolo couldn't even see death beam which would kill Gohan...

Piccolo saw their entire battle, and everytime Gohan & Krillin asked him what was going on, he let them know. All of them can sense chi, yet Piccolo is the only one who can see the battle. No one made anything up, you just ignore facts.

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t would be great to tell such a lie to him, and make him overconfident... Gohan isn't a lier... Besides Trunks can sense ki you know. He isn't an idiot. He would know that thats a lie...

Sure, because we know Trunks has shown that he's overconfident towards Gohan, and his master would really help his confidence by not telling him he would be above him in power, since you know, he's training him to battle the Androids; Makes a load of sense. give me a break! I don't care if he can sense chi or not; he's still a kid, and he's training to get stronger. All of that other crap is irrelevant. Gohan told him that so he could keep improving, end of story.

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This only shows how good your common sense is

. The only thing that doesn't make sense here is that Vegeta should gain same increase as Goku when he was training at 300 times higher gravity.

Gosh, do you even know what you're sayin? Vegeta entered the gravity around the power of 2,400,000 or more; we don't know when he achieved SSJ, but whenever he did, his base form didn't exceed no 100,000,000 or anywhere close to that, because that's based on nothin, and it's absurd.

The fact that you believe SSJ=3x when SSJ>>Kaioken x20 and Kaioken x20>>SSJ w/3x increase, shows that your common sense is very diminished, really.

Dupe of USSJed · 06-11-2008

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I wasn't talking about 3x multiplier which is 10000 times better than ridiculous fan invented 50x.

And 3x is not a ridiculous fan invented multiplier?

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Goku was healed, only a complete idiot or a blinded fan of fan invented 50x cannot see it(no offense).

I can not see that. Neither can 90%(give or take 9.9% of other people)

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Oh, so if a guy gets cleaned off by being in water, we can pretend that ever attack he took beforehand never happened. Okay.

The f*ck reasoning is that?

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And let's ignore the fact that he cannot even stand on his own. Lets ignore the fact that he couldn't walk, or he would have dodged the death beam that he certainly could normally dodge since Piccolo had enough time to push Goku away.

Did Piccolo push Goku away in the manga, or just the anime? And Piccolo could not see the beam, I find it hard to believe he could see it and react fast enough to push Goku to safety.

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Goku was shown to be hell lot stronger at the end of battle. He couldn't even see, not to mention barely dodge anything from 50% Frieza, not even with Kaioken 10x, and then suddenly he both perfectly sees and dodges an energy disc from even more powerful Frieza...

You think Goku PL 50,000,000 could dodge a surprise attack from Frieza PL 100,000,000 to 140,000,000? He shouldn't be able to dodge a frontal attack, let alone something like this. The answer? Frieza's yell alerted him.

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Only a complete idiot(no offense) can think that Trunks can become more than 50x stronger over few months, and surpass Gohan as he said he would.

Goku increased by 1200% in less than a week. That would theoretically make x48 in 2 months possible.

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The MSSJ multiplier is shown to be much less than 50x(kiri metar).

Tell me, what was Goku's exact base kili level? (I am so sick of that damn useless argument)

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Why then didn't Goku use kaioken and kill Cell? So kaioken argument is just wrong.

Because MSSJ is 20.1 or more times the base power level. Make more sense.

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The multipliers decreasing theory has flaws as well, since for example Trunks has same multipliers as Goku and Vegeta even though he was SSJ for much more time... Not to mention that the whole theory is an assumption.

All theories are based on fact and assumption. The more fact, and the less assumption, the better a theory. Your theory is 90% assumption, based on 10% fact, if even that!

Ok Uki, this second post of yours is extremely poorly made. What the hell are you talking about.

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Trunks actually wanted to fight androids as well. So he would have to be total idiot to think he can fight them, if he was 50 times weaker than Gohan.

Vegeta was 50x weaker than Frieza and wanted to fight him. Again, Vegeta was possibly 50x weaker than Cell and wanted to fight him. Hell, if evil androids were attacking Earth, I would want to fight them, and I am many millions of times weaker than them. The answer to this, is he has personal reasons for wanting to fight them.

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"Vegeta didn't go from about 2,400,000 to around 100,000,000+ since that's also nonsense. He would've probably got up to 10-12,000,000 at the most in the 300x gravity training."

I have no idea wether EV or Uki said this. Use quotes if it is not your text Uki.

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his base form didn't exceed no 100,000,000

And this one by EV

Vegeta could have been 100,000,000 but he also could have been 2.5 million. Hell, he could have been eight hundred billion in base. Theres no proof, and no one should use specific numbers as proof...

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because that's based on nothin, and it's absurd.

Madness · 06-11-2008

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Originally Posted by Kaio

I figured about 6-8 sentences per paragraph was grammatically correct. . . I will fix the paragraphs though.

Don't worry, I was just being picky

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Originally Posted by Kaio

Maybe it is. . . I dunno; but it explains Gohan, and the other weird things that are debatable, like Goku vs. enraged Uub. And the rest of your post I sort of agree with and/ or understand what your saying. . . B-but my explanation is more INTERESTING than yours!

lol, win

EDIT: Also, I'm not getting into another arguement with Uki. I've said everything to him that I need to.

I think someone needs to create a wall to defeat him

Dupe of USSJed · 06-11-2008

Wall?

If it will give us a chance... we must use whatever we can to defeat the evil Uki...

Wall away (whatever that is)

Devilz · 06-11-2008

Holy crap, uki is defending the 3x argument again?

Madness · 06-11-2008

I meant a text wall addressing all of Uki's theory and disproving it. Check the Naruto forum for examples

Yes Devilz, he is.

SSJ4 Vegito · 06-11-2008

I think that once you Master the SSJ form and become a "MSSJ" or "FPSSJ" or whatever you want to call it. Your SSJ Multiplier stays like that forever, until then it decreases.
However I think the main reason why Akira stopped using PLs after the Freiza Saga is because or the SSJ Transformations, I believe he also said once that he felt that they "Shortened the story" or something like that. Personally I think it was the right decision.

Madness · 06-11-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJ4 Vegito

I think that once you Master the SSJ form and become a "MSSJ" or "FPSSJ" or whatever you want to call it. Your SSJ Multiplier stays like that forever, until then it decreases.
However I think the main reason why Akira stopped using PLs after the Freiza Saga is because or the SSJ Transformations, I believe he also said once that he felt that they "Shortened the story" or something like that. Personally I think it was the right decision.

Actually he stopped because they were getting way too fuckin' high. And I agree with him.

Dupe of USSJed · 06-11-2008

Plus one of the main reasons I still like DBZ is because I want to find out what the PL's were post Frieza. Lame I know...but maybe thats why he stopped using them. Like Devilz(or someone) said somewhere, PL lists are a major draw.

gad_is_here · 06-12-2008

I think the multiplier decreases.

Madness · 06-12-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by gad_is_here

I think the multiplier decreases.

We know you do

Kaio · 06-12-2008

. . . Or maybe mystic/ultimate Gohan was a phenomenon made to attempt to correct this? To correct the fact that the saiyan power boost is seemingly becoming more and more insignificant?

06-11-2008	#20 (permalink)
Dupe of USSJed (28) Lord of Worlds Join Date: May 2008 Location: drawing. Im kinda the best drawer in my class , not to brag or anything Posts: 7,707 Rep Power: 202	Re: About Mystic/Ultimate Gohan & decreasing ssj multiplier. Wall? If it will give us a chance... we must use whatever we can to defeat the evil Uki... Wall away (whatever that is)

06-11-2008	#23 (permalink)
SSJ4 Vegito (26) Great Elder of Namek Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,482 Rep Power: 138	Re: About Mystic/Ultimate Gohan & decreasing ssj multiplier. I think that once you Master the SSJ form and become a "MSSJ" or "FPSSJ" or whatever you want to call it. Your SSJ Multiplier stays like that forever, until then it decreases. However I think the main reason why Akira stopped using PLs after the Freiza Saga is because or the SSJ Transformations, I believe he also said once that he felt that they "Shortened the story" or something like that. Personally I think it was the right decision.

06-11-2008	#25 (permalink)
Dupe of USSJed (28) Lord of Worlds Join Date: May 2008 Location: drawing. Im kinda the best drawer in my class , not to brag or anything Posts: 7,707 Rep Power: 202	Re: About Mystic/Ultimate Gohan & decreasing ssj multiplier. Plus one of the main reasons I still like DBZ is because I want to find out what the PL's were post Frieza. Lame I know...but maybe thats why he stopped using them. Like Devilz(or someone) said somewhere, PL lists are a major draw.

06-12-2008	#26 (permalink)
gad_is_here (23) Final Warrior Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: I go with the naked ladies[;)] Posts: 2,507 Blog Entries: 7 Rep Power: 77	Re: About Mystic/Ultimate Gohan & decreasing ssj multiplier. I think the multiplier decreases. __________________ Nobody's perfect and since I'm nobody... Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else. Avoid fruits and nuts. You are what you eat. Jim Davis All true wisdom is found on T-shirts. Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.

06-12-2008	#28 (permalink)
Kaio (15) Super Namekian Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 439 Rep Power: 8	Re: About Mystic/Ultimate Gohan & decreasing ssj multiplier. . . . Or maybe mystic/ultimate Gohan was a phenomenon made to attempt to correct this? To correct the fact that the saiyan power boost is seemingly becoming more and more insignificant?

06-13-2008	#29 (permalink)
Dupe of USSJed (28) Lord of Worlds Join Date: May 2008 Location: drawing. Im kinda the best drawer in my class , not to brag or anything Posts: 7,707 Rep Power: 202