Is it possible that Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ? - Page 6

Sorata · 05-31-2008

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There is no proof that Goku's stronger, and there is none that Gotenks is stronger. It all comes down to your personal opinion.

I disagree. Goku SSJ3 won with Buu, Gotenks couldn't keep up even after his training in RoSaT. And Buu wasn't even trying.

You're welcome to disagree too.

uki1234 · 05-31-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorata

I disagree. Goku SSJ3 won with Buu, Gotenks couldn't keep up even after his training in RoSaT. And Buu wasn't even trying.

You're welcome to disagree too.

No problem.

Super Buu is far more powerful than Fat Buu Goku fought.

Madness · 05-31-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorata

I disagree. Goku SSJ3 won with Buu, Gotenks couldn't keep up even after his training in RoSaT. And Buu wasn't even trying.

You're welcome to disagree too.

Huh? Goku never fought Super Buu. Ever.

And there is evidence to say that Gotenks is stronger; Goku stating it.

Sorata · 05-31-2008

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Super Buu is far more powerful than Fat Buu Goku fought.

And the only "proof" of Super Buu stronger than Fat Buu is the presumption that Gotenks SSj=Goku SSJ3 and nothing more. Kinda weak argument when were discussing if Gotenks was stronger than Goku.

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And there is evidence to say that Gotenks is stronger; Goku stating it.

Goku stated it when he didn't have any clue how strong could Gotenks be. In the short dialogue he had with Piccolo Goku states that he decided to give the responsibility to the younger ones becase they have "potential" and must grow stronger because of the future generations and possible threats.

Madness · 05-31-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorata

And the only "proof" of Super Buu stronger than Fat Buu is the presumption that Gotenks SSj=Goku SSJ3 and nothing more. Kinda weak argument when were discussing if Gotenks was stronger than Goku.

Uh-huh. I thought Piccolo stated it, or at least hinted that he was stronger.

Anyway, saying that Super Buu is the same strength as Fat Buu would also say that SSJ3 Gotenks is around the same strength as SSJ3 Goku, which is probably wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorata

Goku stated it when he didn't have any clue how strong could Gotenks be. In the short dialogue he had with Piccolo Goku states that he decided to give the responsibility to the younger ones becase they have "potential" and must grow stronger because of the future generations and possible threats.

Again, we're straying out of the realms of reliable evidence from the text here. Goku isn't real. He isn't a real person. Whatever lines he says comes directly from the author and is this case he is imparting knowledge to us from the author himself. Also, Goku never ever contradicts himself on this subject.

Remixxx · 05-31-2008

One quote is again not enough

Madness · 05-31-2008

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Originally Posted by remixremix

One quote is again not enough

It is when it isn't contradicted in any way.

Sorata · 05-31-2008

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Uh-huh. I thought Piccolo stated it, or at least hinted that he was stronger.

Piccolo didn't say anything about Buu's strenght or ki increasing. Nothing. He mentioned only his changed shape (better fitted to fight than the chubby one) and pure evil character.

If Super Buu was even 2x stronger than Fat Buu not only Piccolo but everyone in the lookout would notice his change. Yet no one (even Piccolo who was directly watching and sensing Buu's change) noticed any significant strenght increase.

Quote:

Anyway, saying that Super Buu is the same strength as Fat Buu would also say that SSJ3 Gotenks is around the same strength as SSJ3 Goku, which is probably wrong.

And why is this wrong? It makes perfect sense to me. Gotenks SSJ3 could be in the same range but still stronger than Goku SSJ3.

Quote:

Again, we're straying out of the realms of reliable evidence from the text here. Goku isn't real. He isn't a real person. Whatever lines he says comes directly from the author and is this case he is imparting knowledge to us from the author himself.

If it's knowledge directly from the author then Goku was talking about Gotenks SSJ3 because Akira Toriyama knew of this stage.

I like to distinguish authors knowledge and characters knowledge because it leads to very many logic errors throughout the series.

Madness · 05-31-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorata

Piccolo didn't say anything about Buu's strenght or ki increasing. Nothing. He mentioned only his changed shape (better fitted to fight than the chubby one) and pure evil character.

If Super Buu was even 2x stronger than Fat Buu not only Piccolo but everyone in the lookout would notice his change. Yet no one (even Piccolo who was directly watching and sensing Buu's change) noticed any significant strenght increase.

And why is this wrong? It makes perfect sense to me. Gotenks SSJ3 could be in the same range but still stronger than Goku SSJ3.

If it's knowledge directly from the author then Goku was talking about Gotenks SSJ3 because Akira Toriyama knew of this stage.

I like to distinguish authors knowledge and characters knowledge because it leads to very many logic errors throughout the series.

You think Gotenks SSJ3 is in the same power range as Goku SSJ3...?

No offence, but I'm quitting this conversation now.

Ciao.

Sorata · 05-31-2008

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No offence, but I'm quitting this conversation now.

Why? Have I acted like a noob? I justify my own statements and if they're wrong then prove me wrong. Quitting right now seems like running to me (no offence but try to understand my point of view).

uki1234 · 05-31-2008

Ok lets make things clear:

SSJ3 Goku is nowhere near SSJ3 Gotenks:

Majin SSJ2 Vegeta = SSJ2 Goku, that makes Majin Vegeta = Goku.

Fat Buu >> Majin SSJ2 Vegeta = SSJ2 Goku.

So if Gotenks was near Goku, it would take more than SSJ2 Gotenks to beat Fat Buu, which is totally untrue as we know that SSJ Gotenks is enough.

Sorata · 05-31-2008

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So if Gotenks was near Goku, it would take more than SSJ2 Gotenks to beat Fat Buu, which is totally untrue as we know that SSJ Gotenks is enough.

And how do you know it? Gotenks SSj never fought Fat Buu.

uki1234 · 05-31-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorata

And how do you know it? Gotenks SSj never fought Fat Buu.

Gokuu said so. He isn't an idiot who will leave the fate of his family, friends, the whole Earth in the hands of arrogant little brats, if the fusion doesn't make them incredibly strong, and he knew how much stronger they'll become, since he witnessed fusion before.

Remixxx · 05-31-2008

hehe goku said so

**Majuub** · 05-31-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorata

Gentlemen please! I didn't start this topic to know your opinion who's stronger. I wanna know why you think that Gotenks SSJ is stronger than Goku SSJ3? This is common statement across all MFG DBZ section yet none of you (besides Darkprince, SSj4 Vegito and Madness) bothered to answer properly on my question in the first post. And there are 5 pages of this discussion.

So let's show some maturity and proceed with the proper discussion.

I think that Goku SSJ3 is stronger than SSJ Gotenks (pre and post rosat). I posted shortened reasons in the first message. Plese show some proof that Gotenks is stronger.

And finally:

If someone wants to post only his personal beliefs (without any proof) please post in the Goku SSJ3 vs Gotenks SSJ zone.(link below)

SSJ3 Goku Vs. SSJ Gotenks

For me the statements made by Goku could have various meanings, it all depends on how you take them. Personally, when he said ''someone stronger'' I think he was comparing the power of that someone to the power he showed, not his full power. Piccolo said ''They powered up hugely'' but for me, his statements were unreliable since he changed opinion here and there, he thought SSJ Gotenks could take out Shin Buu, then he said they were doomed, then he wasn't even sure.

05-31-2008	#81 (permalink)
Remixxx (24) Super Saiyan 4 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Planet Neptune Posts: 3,458 Rep Power: 70	Re: Is it possible that Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ? One quote is again not enough __________________

05-31-2008	#86 (permalink)
uki1234 (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 1,204 Rep Power: 11	Re: Is it possible that Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ? Ok lets make things clear: SSJ3 Goku is nowhere near SSJ3 Gotenks: Majin SSJ2 Vegeta = SSJ2 Goku, that makes Majin Vegeta = Goku. Fat Buu >> Majin SSJ2 Vegeta = SSJ2 Goku. So if Gotenks was near Goku, it would take more than SSJ2 Gotenks to beat Fat Buu, which is totally untrue as we know that SSJ Gotenks is enough.

05-31-2008	#89 (permalink)
Remixxx (24) Super Saiyan 4 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Planet Neptune Posts: 3,458 Rep Power: 70	Re: Is it possible that Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ? hehe goku said so __________________