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Old 06-06-2008   #331 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is it possible that Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ?

Vegeta didn't disagree with bringing them there because of the power difference. Gohan nearly finished Buu with basic attacks, that means, Gohan is at least 1.4x more powerful then Super Buu, if not more. Goku stated he was weaker then this same Super Buu, which could have Gohan 2x more powerful then Goku.

An attack like the spirit bomb was actually a good idea, because every molecule of Buu has to be destroyed, and Vegeta wanted the earthlings to handle their own problems as he stated. He could've thought Buu would absorb them again or anything like that. Gohan would've thrashed Kid Buu, seriously he would've if he battled him.
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Old 06-06-2008   #332 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is it possible that Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ?

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Originally Posted by Sorata View Post
I showed that Gotenks SSj<<<<<SSJ3 Goku and yet nothing.

The funniest thing is that Gotenks or Gohan being only 1,3-1,6x stronger than Goku perfectly shows why Vegeta disagreed to call them to destroy Chibi Buu and why almost all of Gohans energy in the Genki Dama wasn't enough to kill Buu.

But some of you like to illogically use "plotholes" to explain everything that doesn't budge in their theory.

Please try to put (Goku being 1,3x weaker than Gotenks) theory into all of Buu saga. It just fits perfectly.
No.

Adding more, I see no reason that SSJ Gotenks wouldn't have been 1.3x stronger than SSJ3 Goku. But SSJ3 Gotenks and Gohan far outstrip Goku.
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Old 06-06-2008   #333 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is it possible that Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ?

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Vegeta didn't disagree with bringing them there because of the power difference. Gohan nearly finished Buu with basic attacks, that means, Gohan is at least 1.4x more powerful then Super Buu, if not more. Goku stated he was weaker then this same Super Buu, which could have Gohan 2x more powerful then Goku.

An attack like the spirit bomb was actually a good idea, because every molecule of Buu has to be destroyed, and Vegeta wanted the earthlings to handle their own problems as he stated. He could've thought Buu would absorb them again or anything like that. Gohan would've thrashed Kid Buu, seriously he would've.
So in your opinion Vegeta is stupid enough to wait till the Genki Dama charges, prey that it would be enough to destroy Buu and risk it all by taking Buu in his base form while Goku charges his attack also in his base form?

And instead he could only call 911- GOHAN HELP US and with no doubt it would be finished in seconds.

One stupid warrior that Vegeta.(Irony)
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Old 06-06-2008   #334 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is it possible that Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ?

Vegeta said the earthlings need to defend their planet, not me. When Vegeta suggested they use the attack, Goku looked at him, and told him that it didn't work all of the other times it was used. Vegeta knew Buu could absorb, so it's very plausible that he didn't want to risk that, since it would ultimately be the end if Buu did that.

So he is dumb for that one. Goku thought his idea made more sense, so?
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Old 06-06-2008   #335 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is it possible that Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ?

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Vegeta knew Buu could absorb, so it's very plausible that he didn't want to risk
Can i ask, what Buu could absorb?? You had thought about Genki Dama?
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Old 06-06-2008   #336 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is it possible that Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ?

Buu could absorb Gohan or Gotenks.
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Old 06-06-2008   #337 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is it possible that Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ?

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Vegeta knew Buu could absorb, so it's very plausible that he didn't want to risk that, since it would ultimately be the end if Buu did that.
And so did Gohan and Gotenks. If they called them they would finish Buu in seconds if able. Even if Buu would absorb Gohan or gotenks again Goku and vegeta still had the fusion.

The Genki Dama could lead to so many erros that calling for Gohan and exterminating Buu in the matter of seconds would be much smarter. Of course if Gohan is able to exterminate Buu in a matter of seconds.

And how do you explain that Gohan's energy wasn't enough in the Genki Dama?
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Old 06-06-2008   #338 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is it possible that Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ?

Spirit Bomb received only Gohan's relaxed power(which is far from full) IMO, and thats why it didn't have enough power to kill Buu in the beginning. The reason why he wasn't at his max, is same as why didn't Goten and Trunks fuse and went SSJ3 - Plot - Plot needed humans to participate and give their about 35,000,000,000 chi to the bomb (average 5 * 7,000,000,000 people...)
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Old 06-06-2008   #339 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is it possible that Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ?

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Spirit Bomb received only Gohan's relaxed power(which is far from full) IMO, and thats why it didn't have enough power to kill Buu in the beginning. The reason why he wasn't at his max, is same as why didn't Goten and Trunks fuse and went SSJ3 - Plot - Plot needed humans to participate and give their about 35,000,000,000 chi to the bomb (average 5 * 7,000,000,000 people...)
Relaxed power??? WTF is that? Gohan willingly gave only his "relaxed power" if this difference could aliminate the whole universe.

And of course I knew that someone will use the "almighty bunghole (plothole)" argument. I just knew it. Something doesn't work.... Call for the plot device. Weak.
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Old 06-06-2008   #340 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is it possible that Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ?

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Relaxed power??? WTF is that? Gohan willingly gave only his "relaxed power" if this difference could aliminate the whole universe.

And of course I knew that someone will use the "almighty bunghole (plothole)" argument. I just knew it. Something doesn't work.... Call for the plot device. Weak.
You dont know what relaxed power is?

For example(on Namek):

Goku relaxed: 5,000

Goku(full power): 90,000

Gohan was pretty relaxed when he gave his power to Genki Dama...

"Something doesn't work.... Call for the plot device."

No.

Are you trying to imply that Kid Buu > Mystic Gohan
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Old 06-06-2008   #341 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is it possible that Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ?

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And so did Gohan and Gotenks. If they called them they would finish Buu in seconds if able. Even if Buu would absorb Gohan or gotenks again Goku and vegeta still had the fusion.

The Genki Dama could lead to so many erros that calling for Gohan and exterminating Buu in the matter of seconds would be much smarter. Of course if Gohan is able to exterminate Buu in a matter of seconds.

And how do you explain that Gohan's energy wasn't enough in the Genki Dama?
It was enough. But it wasn't enough with the amount of energy Goku had.

Think of the Spirit Bomb with Gohan's energy as being a golf ball. Now, thrown hard enough, that golf ball could kill a man. However, Goku didn't have the energy to throw it hard enough, so they instead had to change the Spirit Bomb to something more like a concrete beach ball that would kill someone with just it's mass.

That's how I see it anyway.

And the fact that Gohan or Gotenks weren't brought in comes from purely out-of-text reasons. The fans and Bird Studios wanted Goku to kill Buu, whilst Toriyama wanted Gohan to do it. Toriyama relented, and the rest is history.
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Old 06-06-2008   #342 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is it possible that Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ?

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You dont know what relaxed power is?

For example(on Namek):

Goku relaxed: 5,000

Goku(full power): 90,000
You didn't answer my question. If Gohan was able to pour all his Ki into Genki Dama why didn't he do that? He could acces his full power in a matter of a second or less (as showed twice).

I know that Gohan is stronger. But not stronger for a degree that he would without any doubt obliterate Kid Buu in the matter of seconds.
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Old 06-06-2008   #343 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is it possible that Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ?

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It was enough. But it wasn't enough with the amount of energy Goku had.
So 6 times more Ki than Kid Buu had wasn't enough but a lame addition (to Gohans power that is) from the rest of the Earthlings was already enough. Interesting.

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However, Goku didn't have the energy to throw it hard enough, so they instead had to change the Spirit Bomb to something more like a concrete beach ball that would kill someone with just it's mass.
Look up. 6x difference in power would crush Buu like a cockroach. More like a 2 ton bowling ball not beach ball.

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And the fact that Gohan or Gotenks weren't brought in comes from purely out-of-text reasons. The fans and Bird Studios wanted Goku to kill Buu, whilst Toriyama wanted Gohan to do it. Toriyama relented, and the rest is history.
Just prettier explanation for PLOTHOLE.
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Old 06-06-2008   #344 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is it possible that Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ?

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So 6 times more Ki than Kid Buu had wasn't enough but a lame addition (to Gohans power that is) from the rest of the Earthlings was already enough. Interesting.
Maybe that wasn't such a good example, as power doesn't equal weight.

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Just prettier explanation for PLOTHOLE.
But it's an explaination that works, and is actually valid.
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Old 06-06-2008   #345 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is it possible that Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ?

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You didn't answer my question. If Gohan was able to pour all his Ki into Genki Dama why didn't he do that? He could acces his full power in a matter of a second or less (as showed twice).

I know that Gohan is stronger. But not stronger for a degree that he would without any doubt obliterate Kid Buu in the matter of seconds.
And you didn't answer mine. Why didn't Goten and Trunks fuse to give their energy as Gotenks. The energy gain from them would be thousand times greater. If you don't call that plot, then how do you call it

He is. The difference between SSJ3 Goku(this is EVEN without him knowing that he cant achieve his full power) and Super Buu is at least 1.5x. The difference between Gohan and Super Buu is at least 1.3x. So that makes Gohan at least 2 times more powerful than Kid Buu, which is enough to obliterate him with no effort...(not to mention that the difference between SSJ3 Goku and Super Buu is a lot higher since SSJ Gotenks ~ SSJ3 Goku)
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