Madness

Now, you all know I'm an advocate of the additive theory, so why, pray tell, am I now making a topic about the multipliers?

Answer: Growing up watching DBZ, I loved Super Saiyan! I used to watch it for that moment when Goku would transcend his boundaries and become... something spectacular. That's why I hated the way that regular old Super Saiyan, that used to be something so incredible, suddenly became this obselete, useless form. It's probably the reason I love the Freeza - Goku fight so much. It showcases the raw power of Super Saiyan.

I like the 50 times multiplier. It's like an old friend and doesn't demean the Super Saiyan form. And as a friend, I feel like I should defend it.

Now, I've been in numerous "debates" about the state of the Super Saiyan form post-Cell Arc. Most people seem to be of the opinion that the multiplier dropped. One person even thinks that the multiplier was always 3 times!

Well, as you can probably tell, that doesn't sit well with me.

I'm sick of this Super Saiyan-bashing. I'm going to take a fucking stand against these... number-monkeys who don't like the 50 times multiplier because it makes their lists complicated. I'm going to become Super Saiyan's gallant defender, clad in the finest armour of Truth, wielding Justice as my sword and riding Law as my steed!

Errr... sorry. Got a bit carried away there.

Anyway, lets start with some small amount of theory.

The Super Saiyan form is meant to be this thing of wonder and stupid awesomeness. It should never be able to be surpassed by mere Kaiokens! Some people have the multiplier down at 10 times. Preposterous I say.

Anyway, to the proof.

I shouldn't really need any, as a 50 times multiplier is damn well written in the Daizenshuu (which although unreliable, carries more weight than anything created in someone's bedroom).

The first of two points that people use to imply that the multiplier dropped is in the tail-end of the Cell Arc. I of course mean, Mirai Trunks blowing Mirai Cell out of a city in base form, whereas he seemed to need Super Saiyan to defeat him.

Now of course, this would be a good point if we hadn't been informed that Cell can supress his power to barely anything and was trying to sneak up on Trunks anyway. As I see it, Cell was expecting to take Trunks by suprise, knowing his speed and power were superior to that of Trunks'. However, he came up against a Trunks who was much mroe powerful than he'd bargained for, and who also knew that Cell planned to ambush him. As such, Trunks took Cell by suprise, blasting him whilst he was still supressing his power, blasting him out of the city.

At this point, I imagine some people are jumping up and down screaming "Cell would've brought his power back up again!"

Maybe, had he not underestimated Trunks' speed so much. He simply didn't have time to react. As for his disbelief outside the city at Trunks' power, well, he has Vegeta and Freeza's cells. He would've inheritated Vegeta's arrogance and Freeza's self-delusion. He would've been under the delusion that Trunks got a lucky hit in whilst he was unprepared. We can quite clearly see the same kind of self-delusion when his counterpart faces SSJ2 Gohan.

Now, the next instance. The well-debated Goku vs Yakon during the early Buu Arc. The Kiri meter is the source of the debate here, with SSJ Goku's power being measured at 3000, whilst Yakon's full power is measured at 800.

Now first off, Yakon's current power is never mentioned, but we can assume that from their wordings of his "full power" Yakon isn't using it. Fair enough one might say.

Next, we have no reading for Goku's base power. Significant in itself, I don't need to explain it further.

Furthermore, we have no indication whether Goku was using his full SSJ power or not. Seeing as this was meant as a display of light, I doubt Goku was using anywhere near his full power.

So as a benchmark, if we assume Goku was using half his full SSJ power when he first showed it to Yakon, Goku's full power would be 6000, and a simple division by 50 would make his base power 120. As they had a fairly equal fight, I can probably place Yakon around the same power. Now, 120 out of 800 isn't a bad starting power level for Yakon if he thinks he's got the edge over his opponents, and it's not an unmodest power level for Goku either.

Now, some people will be screaming "but why wouldn't Yakon use his full power if he's meant to be gathering energy for Majin Buu?!" And the answer is the same as him eating Goku's energy rather than giving it to Buu. He didn't give a shit.

Anyway, that's pretty much my analysis of the available evidence and the major points that people cover in their "Why the SSJ multiplier isn't 50 times" topics. If you have any more points, feel free to bring them up.

Of course, there are other theories, most of which needlessly complicate the subject; things like "energy management" and "growing used to" pop up frightening often, and I simply think they're overcomplicating matters in order to support their own power level lists.

BTW, word count of just over 900. Not bad eh? I was hoping to hit 1000, but 'twas not to be. Maybe next rant.

Laters!

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uki1234

Madness

Err...

First off, is that canon? I think it might be, but I'd like a second opinion.

Secondly, Mirai Trunks never gained SSJ until Mirai Gohan died, as seen in this lovely clip.

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uki1234

Actually its all from manga. What you are using is Toei's interpretation of manga.

Devilz

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Madness

Scanlations please. I've never seen this, though I've heard some mention it. I'm not sure is it does count as canon though, but it may be.

And wow, if that's the case, TOEI really slaughtered the story.

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Zer0

Shazzam.

-Credit goes to Tyro-

I though you knew about it.

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Devilz

EDIT: Zer0 beat me to it, and his quality pwns too.

Why? I loved TOEI's interpretation a lot better.

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uki1234

Yea, well its Toei we re talkin about :P

I'll just post two pages, ofc there are more, but are just irrelevant to what I've wrote.

Zer0

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uki1234

I'm not sure, I thought you know whats written in Japanese :P

Madness

Well I did too, but it means that they changed it a lot.

The only possible explaination is that Trunks transformed at an abnormally low power level. Or that Trunks' fighting technique really isn't up to scratch.

Gohan did leave him behind though when he faced the androids, as he felt he wasn't powerful enough. That means Trunks could be anywhere under Gohan (lol, slash). That doesn't mean a lot though.

Hmm... ponderification indeed. I shall have to muse upon that.

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uki1234

Anyone got Viz scans, or knows Japanese?

Madness

I think Chibi Mystic Gohan does. Wait for him to come online.

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SRP76

I would normally rep you for posting a manga scan, but your unfortunate use of the word "shazzam" prevents that from happening.