Why the 50 times SSJ multiplier is not impossible - Page 5

uki1234 · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibi Mystic Gohan

Sure.

Narrator: "The Future"

Gohan: "All right, that's good, Trunks!! Let's end it for today!"

Trunks: *Huff, huff*

Gohan: "You are really getting good, Trunks. After some months pass (it's not specified how many; I know, this sounds stiff. That's why most translations would say "in a few months," but I'm being more literal), it looks like you might surpass me."

Trunks: "If only the Senzu hadn't ran out, you could have restored that arm to normal."

Gohan: "Yeah, well...~ There's nothing we can do about things that are gone. It's amazing that I was able to escape at all..."

Trunks: "Hey, Gohan-san, you know what my mom says? She's always so surprised when you wear that uniform (dôgi, fighting uniform), because you look just like you father, Goku-san!"

Gohan: "I made it thinking that if I wore it, I could become strong, just like my dead father. I guess it's not that easy..."

Trunks: "Ha ha!"

(I expect a rep for this...)

Thx.

Well this pretty much proves that multiplier is nowhere near 50 in Frieza saga.

Madness · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by uki1234

Thx.

Well this pretty much proves that multiplier is nowhere near 50 in Frieza saga.

Not really. It just means that Trunks was especially weak for a Super Saiyan.

uki1234 · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madness

Not really. It just means that Trunks was especially weak for a Super Saiyan.

It doesn't matter. The difference between base him and Gohan surpasses 30 times for sure(if the multiplier is 50 in Freeza saga), and its literally impossible to become 30 times stronger in few months, without fancy stuff like gravity...

Madness · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by uki1234

It doesn't matter. The difference between base him and Gohan surpasses 30 times for sure(if the multiplier is 50 in Freeza saga), and its literally impossible to become 30 times stronger in few months, without fancy stuff like gravity...

I don't see why it is. You're making presumptions now. We don't know how strong their training would be, or even how quickly Trunks grew. It could also be a statement meant purely to make Trunks feel better about himself.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by uki1234

Thx.

Well this pretty much proves that multiplier is nowhere near 50 in Frieza saga.

How so?

And besides, the Freeza fight itself proves that. Since 50% power Freeza is stronger than a Kaiô-Ken x20-using Goku, to be at 100% Freeza's level, he would have to multiply his power by more than 40. Being 50 times stronger makes sense, although I still don't think his power actually multiplied for the transformation, he just got a huge increase.

And where's my rep? >_<

uki1234 · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madness

I don't see why it is. You're making presumptions now. We don't know how strong their training would be, or even how quickly Trunks grew. It could also be a statement meant purely to make Trunks feel better about himself.

"You're making presumptions now."

No, I'm not. Its shown that without fancy stuff like gravity, its hard to increase your power 2 times in one year.

"even how quickly Trunks grew" This is totally irrelevant in DBZ.

Those are serious times. Why would Gohan give Trunks false hopes and therefore make Trunks confident, and then Trunks would die when he would face androids....

Would you stop being strongheaded only cos you like SSJ and want to make its multiplier higher, and ignore obvious truth statements that proves you wrong, and pulling 1,000,000 stuff out of context.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibi Mystic Gohan

How so?

And besides, the Freeza fight itself proves that. Since 50% power Freeza is stronger than a Kaiô-Ken x20-using Goku, to be at 100% Freeza's level, he would have to multiply his power by more than 40. Being 50 times stronger makes sense, although I still don't think his power actually multiplied for the transformation, he just got a huge increase.

And where's my rep? >_<

Read and respond, good sir.

uki1234 · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibi Mystic Gohan

How so?

And besides, the Freeza fight itself proves that. Since 50% power Freeza is stronger than a Kaiô-Ken x20-using Goku, to be at 100% Freeza's level, he would have to multiply his power by more than 40. Being 50 times stronger makes sense, although I still don't think his power actually multiplied for the transformation, he just got a huge increase.

And where's my rep? >_<

Maybe you've missed the whole SSJ Zenkai discussion, which gives possibility of low multiplier which in this example and Frieza disc case is shown to be true.

What rep? Do you mean reputation?(I'm a new guy with these rules, and everything on this forum...)

Madness · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by uki1234

"You're making presumptions now."

No, I'm not. Its shown that without fancy stuff like gravity, its hard to increase your power 2 times in one year.

"even how quickly Trunks grew" This is totally irrelevant in DBZ.

Those are serious times. Why would Gohan give Trunks false hopes and therefore make Trunks confident, and then Trunks would die when he would face androids....

Would you stop being strongheaded only cos you like SSJ and want to make its multiplier higher, and ignore obvious truth statements that proves you wrong, and pulling 1,000,000 stuff out of context.

You're ignoring several points that do bring the multiplier up and underlining the one. It's one point, it doesn't make a difference. Only when you have multiple examples that cannot be explained ahould you bring them to the table. Then we'll discuss it properly.

And why would Gohan boost Trunks' self-confidence? How about because it'll make him train harder and better? Have you never been complimented by someone for this reason?

Maybe he missed the whole "SSJ Zenkai" conversation because there wasn't sufficient evidence and no possible way it could be true.

uki1234 · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madness

You're ignoring several points that do bring the multiplier up and underlining the one. It's one point, it doesn't make a difference. Only when you have multiple examples that cannot be explained ahould you bring them to the table. Then we'll discuss it properly.

And why would Gohan boost Trunks' self-confidence? How about because it'll make him train harder and better? Have you never been complimented by someone for this reason?

Maybe he missed the whole "SSJ Zenkai" conversation because there wasn't sufficient evidence and no possible way it could be true.

Compliment is "This is very good, Trunks" as he said. What he said is his estimate of in how much time would Trunks be as strong as him.

As I said the only thing you do your whole life is pulling meanings out of context, even when statements are so clear and obvious like Gohans.

"there wasn't sufficient evidence and no possible way it could be true."

For any normal person, there is.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by uki1234

Maybe you've missed the whole SSJ Zenkai discussion, which gives possibility of low multiplier which in this example and Frieza disc case is shown to be true.

What rep? Do you mean reputation?(I'm a new guy with these rules, and everything on this forum...)

That was simply a theory you created. You can't use a theory to argue against the facts, I'm afraid.

Yeah, reputation. I usually like to get repped for translation requests >_>

Madness · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by uki1234

Compliment is "This is very good, Trunks" as he said. What he said is his estimate of in how much time would Trunks be as strong as him.

As I said the only thing you do your whole life is pulling meanings out of context, even when statements are so clear and obvious like Gohans.

"there wasn't sufficient evidence and no possible way it could be true."

For any normal person, there is.

Good grief. This is almost offensive. This is offensive behaviour. I know it's just bad english, but it's infuriating in its language.

The first paragraph, I will ignore, as I've put my point for this across and you've ignored it.

There is one instance where it may not be true. This is against the many instances where it is true, or can be proved to be such. It's not enough.

uki1234 · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibi Mystic Gohan

That was simply a theory you created. You can't use a theory to argue against the facts, I'm afraid.

Yeah, reputation. I usually like to get repped for translation requests >_>

The multiplier being at 50x is theory as well. My theory is supported much more than 50x zenkai.

Oh, ok, nothing's for free when it comes to you :P

Madness · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by uki1234

The multiplier being at 50x is theory as well. My theory is supported much more than 50x zenkai.

Oh, ok, nothing for free when it comes to you :P

Actually, your theory is in direct conflict with Toriyama-written canon. And it doesn't actually mesh with any of the information we have. Saying that the multiplier is 3 times is sheer stupidity.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by uki1234

The multiplier being at 50x is theory as well. My theory is supported much more than 50x zenkai.

Oh, ok, nothing's for free when it comes to you :P

Like I said, his power would have to be over 40 times his base (if you ignore your "zenkai" theory, which is just that, a theory). So being 50 times stronger makes sense to me.