Why the 50 times SSJ multiplier is not impossible - Page 2

Devilz · 05-14-2008

What the hell is shazzam?

EDIT: Rep me instead.

**Zer0** · 05-14-2008

I always say Shazzam when I post a Manga scan. >_>

So nobody has the regular non-Kanzenban volume in English?

SRP76 · 05-14-2008

Not at the moment, no.

NarutoFan · 05-14-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer0

I always say Shazzam when I post a Manga scan. >_>

So nobody has the regular non-Kanzenban volume in English?

I do.

"You might even leave me in the dust in a few months."

JC#1 · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer0

Does the VIZ translation say the same thing about surpassing him in a few months?

I thought that VIZ uses correct translations, unlike fuimation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madness

Well I did too, but it means that they changed it a lot.

The only possible explaination is that Trunks transformed at an abnormally low power level. Or that Trunks' fighting technique really isn't up to scratch.

Gohan did leave him behind though when he faced the androids, as he felt he wasn't powerful enough. That means Trunks could be anywhere under Gohan (lol, slash). That doesn't mean a lot though.

Hmm... ponderification indeed. I shall have to muse upon that.

There's that possible explanation, or the multiplier is lower than you thought. I'm nuetral on the subject, I just want answers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRP76

I would normally rep you for posting a manga scan, but your unfortunate use of the word "shazzam" prevents that from happening.

Everyone (well, except for...Online forum people...) says shazzam man, why you be hatin'?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devilz

What the hell is shazzam?

EDIT: Rep me instead.

...I'm gonna act like I didn't hear that just now. You got by with a free one, next time you're not getting away so easy.

Devilz · 05-15-2008

Why aren't you banned yet?

ANB · 05-15-2008

Madness, you are absolutely incorrect in your math.

-Yakon took a kick to the face from Goku. Goku sustained a slash from Yakon. They are within the same range of power.
-Goku's base kiri couldn't possibly be 120 because again: He injured Yakon.
-The multiplyer wouldn't depend on his "full-power" the way you are thinking. If Goku's power-level is say 100 and the multiplyer is 5 the it becomes 500. But let's say his "full-power" is actually 1,000. Does that mean the SSJ multiplyer is actually 10??? No, when he initially transforms it is only 5 but can increase his power-level to 1,000. This is only due to his mastering of the form and had he not mastered it it would only be 500. He can only access his "full-power" through mastery after-all: The Daizenshuu even refers to MSSJ as "Full-power Super Saiyajin".

Madness · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

Madness, you are absolutely incorrect in your math.

-Yakon took a kick to the face from Goku. Goku sustained a slash from Yakon. They are within the same range of power.
-Goku's base kiri couldn't possibly be 120 because again: He injured Yakon.
-The multiplyer wouldn't depend on his "full-power" the way you are thinking. If Goku's power-level is say 100 and the multiplyer is 5 the it becomes 500. But let's say his "full-power" is actually 1,000. Does that mean the SSJ multiplyer is actually 10??? No, when he initially transforms it is only 5 but can increase his power-level to 1,000. This is only due to his mastering of the form and had he not mastered it it would only be 500. He can only access his "full-power" through mastery after-all: The Daizenshuu even refers to MSSJ as "Full-power Super Saiyajin".

There's nothing wrong with my math thank you very much. Yakon's suppresed power could easily be 120, and so could Goku's, like I said in the post.

And the multiplier creates the full power IMO.

JC#1 · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devilz

Why aren't you banned yet?

Is there a reason (recent) why I should be banned???

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-15-2008

Regardless of anyone's math, I think the Kiri readings aren't a good indication of any Super Saiyan "multiplier." There are too many unknown factors.

-Goku's base Kiri level is unknown (saying "him and Yakon looked kind of even, so he might be around 800, too!" makes no difference, because the fact is, his Kiri level isn't read off.)
-How much power base Goku and Yakon were using. Characters in Dragon Ball tend to hold back until they gauge their opponents' fighting power.
-Someone noted that they seem to be equal only because they both got one hit on each other. Didn't Goku only hit Yakon because his guard was down? He had no idea that Goku could sense his ki, so he was foolishly rushing towards Goku. Yakon, on the other hand, hit Goku when in broad daylight. And he barely dodged his attack. Yakon could be stronger than base Goku.
-It is also unknown how much power Goku was using when his Kiri level was read. He is shown powering up (when he is feeding Yakon light), meaning he had reserve power left, right? His full power could be 10,000 for all we know!

ANB · 05-15-2008

Yakon was bleeding from the kick.

And Goku was on-guard and sensing Yakon's chi when he got cut.

Quote:

And the multiplier creates the full power IMO.

Not imho. They can't use their full-power prior to mastery. That's the idea. By your logic the mastery does...nothing numerical-wise.

Madness · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

Yakon was bleeding from the kick.

And Goku was on-guard and sensing Yakon's chi when he got cut.

Not imho. They can't use their full-power prior to mastery. That's the idea. By your logic the mastery does...nothing numerical-wise.

IMO, the mastery does nothing power wise. It means that they can be more economical with their power, but no power boost.

ANB · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madness

IMO, the mastery does nothing power wise. It means that they can be more economical with their power, but no power boost.

The Daizenshu's official label describing "MSSJ" is "Full-power Super Saiyajin". Vegeta also said that they decided this was their best combat form and they wanted to get used to it to bring out it's full-potential (or more effective, something along those lines).

Considering that they are fatigued and have rapid chi-loss prior to mastery, they likely can't use their full-power as Vegeta and the Daizenshu allude to. I'd say their is a significant power advantage for one who masters the form.

Madness · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

The Daizenshu's official label describing "MSSJ" is "Full-power Super Saiyajin". Vegeta also said that they decided this was their best combat form and they wanted to get used to it to bring out it's full-potential (or more effective, something along those lines).

Considering that they are fatigued and have rapid chi-loss prior to mastery, they likely can't use their full-power as Vegeta and the Daizenshu allude to. I'd say their is a significant power advantage for one who masters the form.

Then in that case, the MSSJ multiplier must be higher then 50 times.

ANB · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madness

Then in that case, the MSSJ multiplier must be higher then 50 times.

If you are of the mind-set that it never dropped below 50x then yes, that's the most logical solution.

Don't forget about the Cell saga power-ladder where things get crazy:

SSJ Goku<SSJ Vegeta<#18 50%<<#18<17=Piccolo<<16=Cell<<<Cell 2nd form<<TSSJ Vegeta<<MSSJ Goku 50%.

05-14-2008	#17 (permalink)
Zer0 Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hn, None of your business Posts: 8,610 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 37	Re: Why the 50 times SSJ multiplier is not impossible I always say Shazzam when I post a Manga scan. >_> So nobody has the regular non-Kanzenban volume in English? __________________ \|Work in Progress Signature\| \|Bleach Power Levels\| \|Movie Power Levels\| \|Databook Statistics\|

05-14-2008	#18 (permalink)
SRP76 (21) Majin Warrior Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,689 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 7	Re: Why the 50 times SSJ multiplier is not impossible Not at the moment, no.

05-15-2008	#22 (permalink)
ANB (23) Final Warrior Join Date: May 2006 Location: The Natives are restless... Posts: 2,641 Rep Power: 14	Re: Why the 50 times SSJ multiplier is not impossible Madness, you are absolutely incorrect in your math. -Yakon took a kick to the face from Goku. Goku sustained a slash from Yakon. They are within the same range of power. -Goku's base kiri couldn't possibly be 120 because again: He injured Yakon. -The multiplyer wouldn't depend on his "full-power" the way you are thinking. If Goku's power-level is say 100 and the multiplyer is 5 the it becomes 500. But let's say his "full-power" is actually 1,000. Does that mean the SSJ multiplyer is actually 10??? No, when he initially transforms it is only 5 but can increase his power-level to 1,000. This is only due to his mastering of the form and had he not mastered it it would only be 500. He can only access his "full-power" through mastery after-all: The Daizenshuu even refers to MSSJ as "Full-power Super Saiyajin". __________________ Were they created by nothing? Or were they themselves the creators (of themselves)? Or did they create heaven and earth? Nay, but they are not sure. (52:35-36)

05-15-2008	#25 (permalink)
Chibi Mystic Gohan (21) Majin Warrior Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Surrounded by dickgirls Posts: 1,622 Rep Power: 44	Re: Why the 50 times SSJ multiplier is not impossible Regardless of anyone's math, I think the Kiri readings aren't a good indication of any Super Saiyan "multiplier." There are too many unknown factors. -Goku's base Kiri level is unknown (saying "him and Yakon looked kind of even, so he might be around 800, too!" makes no difference, because the fact is, his Kiri level isn't read off.) -How much power base Goku and Yakon were using. Characters in Dragon Ball tend to hold back until they gauge their opponents' fighting power. -Someone noted that they seem to be equal only because they both got one hit on each other. Didn't Goku only hit Yakon because his guard was down? He had no idea that Goku could sense his ki, so he was foolishly rushing towards Goku. Yakon, on the other hand, hit Goku when in broad daylight. And he barely dodged his attack. Yakon could be stronger than base Goku. -It is also unknown how much power Goku was using when his Kiri level was read. He is shown powering up (when he is feeding Yakon light), meaning he had reserve power left, right? His full power could be 10,000 for all we know! __________________ "Words don't exist so that we can tell the truth; they exist so that we can conceal the truth" - ZOMBIEPOWDER.* Volume 02*