Gotenks was FASTER than the speed of light... - Page 3

centaurhades · 05-11-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibi Mystic Gohan

No. Read my above post.

agree with you there and I think no one in Z Warriors can travel the speed of light.

Madness · 05-11-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

You and Madness haven't disproven anything. Either form an intelligent arguement or gtfo.

I hadn't even said anything

*Gets the fuck out*

lol

EDIT: Alright, I'll say something.

Just because something cannot be seen, does not mean it's going faster than the speed of light. If we're gonna get all scientifical about this, then light-speed fighting would be useless.

I'm going to suggest that if they can break lightspeed, they do not, as it would be useless.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-11-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

Chibi, I'll tell you what I told you in the thread where you argued Radditz being over 1,500:

Viz. Freaking. Translation.

The "Unwritten Rule" Written. (Must-Read for New Members!)

I could care less what the "Original Japanese text" says. And how do I take YOUR word for it when I can read the manga done by professionals...? Gotenks said a couple dozen times and that would be at least 24. In one panel.

The speed of light IS 186,000 miles per second. Do the math dude, that would be 23 times in 23 seconds.

You and Madness haven't disproven anything. Either form an intelligent arguement or gtfo.

I would never argue that Raditz was over 1,500...

Anyway, not only does that thread not say "use the VIZ translation exclusively" (it is actually talking about anime filler vs. the manga; read it), but I really don't care.

Not only is VIZ infamous for their line changes and edits in their manga, but you're also being ignorant. Do you really think the term "dozen" exists in every language? In the Japanese version (you know, written by Akira Toriyama and all), Gotenks is basically saying he circled the Earth so many times he lost count. The translator simply adapted it to an appropriate English line. That shouldn't mean their line is the be-all, end-all in a debate.

Furthermore, you're twisting the line to your advantage. A dozen doesn't always literally mean 12. Sure, if someone says they bought a dozen doughnuts, you can be sure they probably have 12, but if someone says, let's say, they jogged around the block a dozen times, that doesn't mean they literally did it exactly 12 times.

And why do you think that panel happened so quickly? When Piccolo met up with Gotenks finally, it had been 29 minutes (as he defused a minute later). That means either Gotenks was flying for a long time and took a really short nap (as it wouldn't take Piccolo that long to find Gotenks if he had stopped moving), or he flew around the Earth quickly, like you say, and napped for the rest of the 29 minutes (this directly contradicts his statement that he took a short nap). In my opinion, he must have been flying for at least 25 minutes, as Piccolo would quickly locate his ki signal once he stopped moving and fly to him.

Also, why do you say "23 times in 23 seconds"? Simplify and say one time in one second. And I don't know where you get your information, but light circles the Earth eight times in a second. Here is one such source stating as such. Do some research before you continue your debate, this is a scientific fact.

gad_is_here · 05-11-2008

I started a time arguement?????

ANB · 05-11-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibi Mystic Gohan

I would never argue that Raditz was over 1,500...

Anyway, not only does that thread not say "use the VIZ translation exclusively" (it is actually talking about anime filler vs. the manga; read it), but I really don't care.

Not only is VIZ infamous for their line changes and edits in their manga, but you're also being ignorant. Do you really think the term "dozen" exists in every language? In the Japanese version (you know, written by Akira Toriyama and all), Gotenks is basically saying he circled the Earth so many times he lost count. The translator simply adapted it to an appropriate English line. That shouldn't mean their line is the be-all, end-all in a debate.

Furthermore, you're twisting the line to your advantage. A dozen doesn't always literally mean 12. Sure, if someone says they bought a dozen doughnuts, you can be sure they probably have 12, but if someone says, let's say, they jogged around the block a dozen times, that doesn't mean they literally did it exactly 12 times.

And why do you think that panel happened so quickly? When Piccolo met up with Gotenks finally, it had been 29 minutes (as he defused a minute later). That means either Gotenks was flying for a long time and took a really short nap (as it wouldn't take Piccolo that long to find Gotenks if he had stopped moving), or he flew around the Earth quickly, like you say, and napped for the rest of the 29 minutes (this directly contradicts his statement that he took a short nap). In my opinion, he must have been flying for at least 25 minutes, as Piccolo would quickly locate his ki signal once he stopped moving and fly to him.

Also, why do you say "23 times in 23 seconds"? Simplify and say one time in one second. And I don't know where you get your information, but light circles the Earth eight times in a second. Here is one such source stating as such. Do some research before you continue your debate, this is a scientific fact.

Prepare yourself; I'm going to obliterate everything you have claimed...

1) Viz is a qualified translation company that has brought several titles oversees and have done an excellent job. Not only do you look foolish trying to say what the "original text" says but you're breaking the rules. We are ONLY supposed to use viz when arguing about facts and statements: The "Unwritten Rule" Written. (Must-Read for New Members!)

Lol, "I don't really care". You "don't care" what the official, professional translation says...?

2) So what would a short-nap be to you...? 1 minute? A half hour is certainly a "short nap" and I already admitted that I made a mistake and Gotenks would be slightly slower (Which was not pointed out by you FYI). Either way, you haven't disproven anything and are conjuring phail.

3) Wow, your "scientifically accurate" rag-tag Yahoo answer page AGREES with me:

Quote:

All light travels in the form of waves at a speed of about 300,000 (300 thousand) kilometers per second in a vacuum such as space. That's about 186,000 miles every second.

Ahem,

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

The Speed of Light: 186,000 miles per second.

Earth's size: 8,000 miles.

Any idiot can do basic math and realize that something travelling the speed of light would encircle the Earth 23 times in a second. Gotenks travlled around it at least 24 times in one panel. Are you honestly going to tell me that it took...half an hour to zip around the Earth the way he was...? I wouldn't brag if it took me that long. In fact, that only goes to show it was most likely beyond the speed of light. The nap took up most of the time, not the other way around.

Look at any random scene in DBZ where Goku is punching multiple times and he creates the illusion of having several arms. He is clearly punching at high speeds and in a very short time-fram (Even I can jab TWICE in one second!). According to you, it takes Goku several minutes to extend his arm, bring it back, and punch again D:

Saint Dean · 05-11-2008

If he traveled at the speed of light around the world, at a constant speed. He'd be a few seconds in the future?

I remember my friend trying to explain this to me ages ago. Its something about how light from the sun hits you and reflects into your eye (which makes you visable) but he traveled faster than the speed of light... So light never hit him to reflect into your eyes, it means them few seconds he was traveling for never happened?

I hope you understand me, because I sure don't =)

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-11-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

1) Viz is a qualified translation company that has brought several titles oversees and have done an excellent job. Not only do you look foolish trying to say what the "original text" says but you're breaking the rules. We are ONLY supposed to use viz when arguing about facts and statements: The "Unwritten Rule" Written. (Must-Read for New Members!)

Lol, "I don't really care". You "don't care" what the official, professional translation says...?

Wow. VIZ is also the translation company that is the butt of many jokes in the anime and manga community because of their botched translation and editing. Regardless, I never said there was anything wrong with VIZ's translation of that line, it sure fits the context, but you're twisting the line in your favor, so I am simply pointing out the fact that there isn't a word for "dozen" in the Japanese language. I think Akira Toriyama's direct words have more meaning than the translator's adapted line.

And would you please read the damn link you keep posting? It says to USE THE MANGA OVER THE ANIME WHEN DEBATING. Not to use VIZ's translation over the Japanese manga WRITTEN BY TORIYAMA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

2) So what would a short-nap be to you...? 1 minute? A half hour is certainly a "short nap" and I already admitted that I made a mistake and Gotenks would be slightly slower (Which was not pointed out by you FYI). Either way, you haven't disproven anything and are conjuring phail.

If Gotenks took a half an hour nap, Piccolo would have found him quite quickly because of his ki signal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

3) Wow, your "scientifically accurate" rag-tag Yahoo answer page AGREES with me:

I only posted that link because it shows that other people know that light can circle the planet 8 times in a second. That same guy also wrote:

Quote:

That means light can travel almost eight times around the Earth in a second. That's pretty fast! Light has slightly slower speeds when it travels through denser material such as a planet's atmosphere or a piece of glass

It's a known fact that you should have learned in science class. I don't really know where you're making the mistake in your make, but you're definitely making one.

Here's another site I was able to find with a quick Google search:

http://www.swinburne.edu.au/feis/photonics/facts.htm

Quote:

Light moves at the fastest speed possible in our universe. It can circle the earth eight times in one second! But light does not travel through all substances at the same speed. In normal material the speed is still a reasonable fraction of the vacuum speed, but in recent laboratory experiments, the speed of light was slowed to a halt momentarily, before re-emerging.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

at any random scene in DBZ where Goku is punching multiple times and he creates the illusion of having several arms. He is clearly punching at high speeds and in a very short time-fram (Even I can jab TWICE in one second!). According to you, it takes Goku several minutes to extend his arm, bring it back, and punch again D:

Going by that logic, according to you, every panel shown in the manga takes place over the course of a second.

No, showing a single panel with Gotenks circling the Earth does not convince me that it all happened in a second. What, you expect Toriyama to waste two or three panels showing him flying? He'd already used a whole page showing speed up to that point.

Also, note that your whole argument is based on a gag scene.

ANB · 05-11-2008

1-Ask any of the mods if we're allowed to use unofficial translations.

2-Piccolo would probably take a half hour just to encircle the Earth once. Besides, Gotenks was a mastered Super Saiyajin and could suppress his chi (even sleep while transformed).

3-WHEN DID I DENY LIGHT TRAVELS 8 TIMES IN ONE SECOND???

4-No, don't cop-out. You're acting like it took Gotenks half an hour (meaning several minutes for each revolution) when we see him pick up speed racing across the Earth and then he moves so fast he encircles it 7 times in one panel.

It's pretty much a given. The Goku punching example was showing that they punch so fast he has to draw it as if he has several arms. It's not unique to DBZ, everyone does this. Gotenks told Piccolo "My speed should already convince you who would win,".

And if we do the math, even if it were within, as you say, the duration of his fusion time limit that would still be 192,000 miles in less than half an hour. That's freakishly fast.

Deep thought · 05-11-2008

Something I wanted to add, Gotenks didn't just go around the Earth.....

..... he went far outside of it.

ANB · 05-11-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deep thought

Something I wanted to add, Gotenks didn't just go around the Earth.....

..... he went far outside of it.

Lol, nice "Zer0ing in" on it.

He'd be burned up in the atmosphere but can apparently handle the heat pressure. I'll have to look up how far out the rim of the atmosphere is, that would imply he's waaay faster than even I anticipated.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-11-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

4-No, don't cop-out. You're acting like it took Gotenks half an hour (meaning several minutes for each revolution) when we see him pick up speed racing across the Earth and then he moves so fast he encircles it 7 times in one panel.

Who says he stopped flying right after that panel?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

And if we do the math, even if it were within, as you say, the duration of his fusion time limit that would still be 192,000 miles in less than half an hour. That's freakishly fast.

I don't care how fast he is (I never said he wasn't fast), but he sure as hell isn't going light speed. Really, I'm quickly losing interest in this debate. Your whole argument is based on an adapted line using a phrase that doesn't exist in Japanese. I'll take Toriyama's word over a translator's. In the Japanese, he doesn't specify how many times he circled the planet, so your whole "he did it two dozen times" is irrelevant to me.

SaiyajinPerfection · 05-11-2008

Dragon Ball physics and real world physics aren't the same thing. People often forget this basic concept when arguing about the capability of characters. You can't make a logical argument if you use real world physical laws to justify the physical laws in a fantasy series in which the physical laws either blatantly different, or don't exist at all. Most of Dragon Ball is intended as a gag, therefore the physics that do exist in the more serious parts of the series aren't the same in the gag parts.

If we were to take these physics literally, we'd also have to make comments about how the characters' hair and clothes would be ripped off because of the excessive speed that they travel. But we all know that this isn't the case.

Madness flipped out on me one time for pointing this out, but it's the truth anyway you cut it.

SRP76 · 05-11-2008

There's no way of knowing how long that whole "flying around the world, Piccolo looking for Gotenks" arc lasts, so none of this matters. It could have taken half a second; it could have just as easily taken half a day. There's no way to know.

Madness · 05-11-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaiyajinPerfection

Dragon Ball physics and real world physics aren't the same thing. People often forget this basic concept when arguing about the capability of characters. You can't make a logical argument if you use real world physical laws to justify the physical laws in a fantasy series in which the physical laws either blatantly different, or don't exist at all.

Madness flipped out on me one time for pointing this out, but it's the truth anyway you cut it.

lol I remember that. Good times.

Anyway, I oppose that view. The physics are the same as they are never stated to be different. Saying their different without evidence simply causes confusions during debating. This makes it easier.

05-11-2008	#34 (permalink)
gad_is_here (21) Majin Warrior Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: India Posts: 1,559 Blog Entries: 2 Rep Power: 4	Re: Gotenks was FASTER than the speed of light... I started a time arguement????? __________________ Feed me rep, or feed me Pizza

05-11-2008	#36 (permalink)
Saint Dean (9) Namekian Warrior Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chesterfield, England Posts: 106 Rep Power: 4	Re: Gotenks was FASTER than the speed of light... If he traveled at the speed of light around the world, at a constant speed. He'd be a few seconds in the future? I remember my friend trying to explain this to me ages ago. Its something about how light from the sun hits you and reflects into your eye (which makes you visable) but he traveled faster than the speed of light... So light never hit him to reflect into your eyes, it means them few seconds he was traveling for never happened? I hope you understand me, because I sure don't =) __________________ Writing my first Fan Fiction

05-11-2008	#38 (permalink)
ANB (23) Final Warrior Join Date: May 2006 Location: The Natives are restless... Posts: 2,641 Rep Power: 14	Re: Gotenks was FASTER than the speed of light... 1-Ask any of the mods if we're allowed to use unofficial translations. 2-Piccolo would probably take a half hour just to encircle the Earth once. Besides, Gotenks was a mastered Super Saiyajin and could suppress his chi (even sleep while transformed). 3-WHEN DID I DENY LIGHT TRAVELS 8 TIMES IN ONE SECOND??? 4-No, don't cop-out. You're acting like it took Gotenks half an hour (meaning several minutes for each revolution) when we see him pick up speed racing across the Earth and then he moves so fast he encircles it 7 times in one panel. It's pretty much a given. The Goku punching example was showing that they punch so fast he has to draw it as if he has several arms. It's not unique to DBZ, everyone does this. Gotenks told Piccolo "My speed should already convince you who would win,". And if we do the math, even if it were within, as you say, the duration of his fusion time limit that would still be 192,000 miles in less than half an hour. That's freakishly fast. __________________ Were they created by nothing? Or were they themselves the creators (of themselves)? Or did they create heaven and earth? Nay, but they are not sure. (52:35-36)

05-11-2008	#39 (permalink)
Deep thought (18) Artificial Human Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: America, vague, huh??? Posts: 902 Rep Power: 5	Re: Gotenks was FASTER than the speed of light... Something I wanted to add, Gotenks didn't just go around the Earth..... ..... he went far outside of it. __________________

05-11-2008	#42 (permalink)
SaiyajinPerfection (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Beyond the Internet Posts: 1,269 Blog Entries: 7 Rep Power: 9	Re: Gotenks was FASTER than the speed of light... Dragon Ball physics and real world physics aren't the same thing. People often forget this basic concept when arguing about the capability of characters. You can't make a logical argument if you use real world physical laws to justify the physical laws in a fantasy series in which the physical laws either blatantly different, or don't exist at all. Most of Dragon Ball is intended as a gag, therefore the physics that do exist in the more serious parts of the series aren't the same in the gag parts. If we were to take these physics literally, we'd also have to make comments about how the characters' hair and clothes would be ripped off because of the excessive speed that they travel. But we all know that this isn't the case. Madness flipped out on me one time for pointing this out, but it's the truth anyway you cut it. __________________ Formerly the member demonkingpiccolo "Wit beyond measure, is a man's greatest treasure"

05-11-2008	#43 (permalink)
SRP76 (21) Majin Warrior Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,689 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 7	Re: Gotenks was FASTER than the speed of light... There's no way of knowing how long that whole "flying around the world, Piccolo looking for Gotenks" arc lasts, so none of this matters. It could have taken half a second; it could have just as easily taken half a day. There's no way to know.