Gotenks was FASTER than the speed of light... - Page 12

Final Ultima · 05-14-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madness

So, Noobimus Prime, which character stated that they could exceed the speed of sound?

Stated? It was showed...Roshi catching bullets.

Vegerotto · 05-14-2008

Reading through this debate, the first 3 pages had some good evidence from both sides, with ANB seeming like he knew more of what he was talking about. He totally failed when he started saying that people could "Adjust to see at light speed" and the like.

At first I originally thought they could move at light speed as well, but them not being able to see anything kills my belief in that, thanks for setting me straight.

Madness · 05-14-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Final Ultima

Stated? It was showed...Roshi catching bullets.

And...? That's not proof. That's not even proof of exceeding the speed of sound. If I recall, that was a submachine gun that they fired. Submachine gun bullets are the same as pistol bullets and do not fire at the speed of sound. They're slightly slower.

Anyway, Roshi proves nothing. You have no conclusive proof.

And BTW, that's not a statement, that's an action.

To be fair Vegerotto, they would see stuff, but depending on how much faster they were moving, they'd see it after they'd hit it.

Final Ultima · 05-14-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madness

And...? That's not proof. That's not even proof of exceeding the speed of sound. If I recall, that was a submachine gun that they fired. Submachine gun bullets are the same as pistol bullets and do not fire at the speed of sound. They're slightly slower.

Anyway, Roshi proves nothing. You have no conclusive proof.

And BTW, that's not a statement, that's an action.

Thanks for ignoring direct evidence...AGAIN.

Madness · 05-14-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Final Ultima

Thanks for ignoring direct evidence...AGAIN.

How can I ignore what you're not providing?

Final Ultima · 05-14-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madness

How can I ignore what you're not providing?

you asked for a statement showing where dragonball can exceed sound speed, I gave you something better...A showing. You just ignored it as expected.

Madness · 05-14-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Final Ultima

you asked for a statement showing where dragonball can exceed sound speed, I gave you something better...A showing. You just ignored it as expected.

No... I asked for a statement of them exceeding the speed of LIGHT.

Not sound

EDIT: Doh. I did say sound. Apologies.

Okay, prove they can exceed light lol. I meant light.

Final Ultima · 05-14-2008

No one knows, the persons saying they can and can't are wrong.

Madness · 05-14-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Final Ultima

No one knows, the persons saying they can and can't are wrong.

Well I think you're pretty much right. No-one will ever know for sure. Everyone will just have their opinions on the matter. I don't think they do, but that's just me.

SRP76 · 05-14-2008

Gotenks talks to Piccolo and says only a coupe lines before flying off. 30 seconds elapsed, at most.

Gotenks flies to the ground, into the distance, then takes off. If he's THAT fast, this would have taken less than a thousandth of a second. Too bad the speed of light deal is wrong, and Gotenks isn't that fast. Another 1 minute gone by.

*whole stupid "around the world" bullshit happens*

Piccolo finds Gotenks, they bicker for a few lines. Two minutes elapsed here, tops.

Gotenks takes off to Buu's "house". Again, it should tkae less than a millionth of a second if he's that fast. Too bad he's not. 5 minutes taken here.

Gotenks yells out for Buu. 30 seconds tick away...

AND FUSION ENDS.

Duh, fusion's a half-hour. Everything Gotenks did other than "flying around the world" took a MAXIMUM of 9 minutes (probably took about three minutes, if that).

That means that one panel that people are fawning over lasts for 21 minutes.

Few dozen = 36. Period. Not more.

Lightspeed = 1 lap = 1/8 second. Fact of life, so deal with it.

Laps light makes in 21 minutes = 8 * 60 * 21 = 10,080.

10,080 vs. "a few dozen"

Doesn't take the Professor from Gilligan's Island to do the math here. Gotenks is NOT as fast as light.

In fact, he's only about 1/280 the speed of light (and that was giving him the benefit of the doubt, by the way).

Period. Proven. Stop saying that Gotenks was faster than light.

Final Ultima · 05-14-2008

You didn't prove anything but you know how to make up numbers and a story.

SRP76 · 05-14-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Final Ultima

You didn't prove anything but you know how to make up numbers and a story.

Pick up the manga and look at it before posting. I didn't "make up the story", a guy named Akira Toriyama did. And guess what? People that actually read the manga know that the whole exchange happened exactly as described. So if you don't like what on those pages, you should argue with Toriyama about it, not me.

Prince Vegeta · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRP76

Gotenks talks to Piccolo and says only a coupe lines before flying off. 30 seconds elapsed, at most.

Gotenks flies to the ground, into the distance, then takes off. If he's THAT fast, this would have taken less than a thousandth of a second. Too bad the speed of light deal is wrong, and Gotenks isn't that fast. Another 1 minute gone by.

*whole stupid "around the world" bullshit happens*

Piccolo finds Gotenks, they bicker for a few lines. Two minutes elapsed here, tops.

Gotenks takes off to Buu's "house". Again, it should tkae less than a millionth of a second if he's that fast. Too bad he's not. 5 minutes taken here.

Gotenks yells out for Buu. 30 seconds tick away...

AND FUSION ENDS.

Duh, fusion's a half-hour. Everything Gotenks did other than "flying around the world" took a MAXIMUM of 9 minutes (probably took about three minutes, if that).

That means that one panel that people are fawning over lasts for 21 minutes.

Few dozen = 36. Period. Not more.

Lightspeed = 1 lap = 1/8 second. Fact of life, so deal with it.

Laps light makes in 21 minutes = 8 * 60 * 21 = 10,080.

10,080 vs. "a few dozen"

Doesn't take the Professor from Gilligan's Island to do the math here. Gotenks is NOT as fast as light.

In fact, he's only about 1/280 the speed of light (and that was giving him the benefit of the doubt, by the way).

Period. Proven. Stop saying that Gotenks was faster than light.

Heard of acceleration? Its possible that Gotenks didn't travel at the same speed the entire time. Also you left out the fact that he stated he took a nap. The nap could have been 25 minutes for all we know and so you managed to prove nothing.

ANB · 05-15-2008

Quoting my underestimated theory:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

How about this:

-Muten Roshi could catch bullets
-He moved fast enough to evade human eye-sight

He is likely as fast as the speed of sound (700mph). Now, Vegeta told Zarbon that he "looked like he was standing still" (official viz translation betch) and the difference between their power-levels was 1.09 (I'll round it to 1.1 for simplicity's sake).

-Therefore, a difference of 1.09x is enough to be much faster than someone.
-It is also a sufficient gap in power although nothing baffling.

Let's say, if Roshi's power-level is 139 (fact) and his speed is 700 mph then what of someone 1.09x stronger...? Wouldn't their power-level be 278 and their speed consequently 1,400 mph...

Do you know where I'm going with this? Eventually, they would exceed the speed of light!

The speed of a bullet from FOUR different sources:

Quote:

So what does this mean for our gun? If the gun shoots bullets at 1,000 mph, then the bullet will always move away from the gun at 1,000 mph. If you go to the front of a train that is moving at 1,000 mph and shoot the gun forward, the bullet will move away from you and the train at 1,000 mph, just as it would if the train were stopped. But, relative to the ground, the bullet will travel at 2,000 mph, the speed of the bullet plus the speed of the train. So if the bullet hits something on the ground, it will hit it going 2,000 mph.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/question456.htm

Quote:

Everyone knows that Superman is faster than a speeding bullet, but how fast does a speeding bullet travel? Speeds fluctuate and depend upon several factors.
Gravity makes a projectile fall toward the earth while in flight. The projectile's size, shape, and the air density affect the speed by which it travels. Air resistance slows the speed of a bullet and reduces the distance by which it travels.
The velocity of a bullet is given in feet per second (fps) in the United States. The 0.22 rimfire cartridge, which has a very small powder charge, sends its bullets on their way at between 370 m/s and 460 m/s. Cartridges in rifles -- centerfire cartridges -- propel their bullets at a much faster rate. The 0.220 Swift, which drives a very small bullet at over 1220 m/s, is the cartridge with the highest velocity.
Shotgun pellets vary very little in velocity. The slowest speed at 335 m/s, while the fastest travel at close to 427 m/s.
Given all the above information about bullet speeds, I can't help but feel amazed at how fast Superman flies, considering that he travels faster than a speeding bullet -- if there is a Superman.

Speed of a Bullet

Quote:

There is no meaningful average answer for all handguns.

Old fashioned big caliber handguns (45 Colt, 44 S+W) shoot a heavy bullet without a lot of gun powder behind it. Muzzle velocities for these weapons is under 1000 feet per second. Some as low as 800 feet per second or even lower.

On the other hand, some lighter caliber handguns (.223, 22-250) used for hunting or long distance target shooting use a much lighter weight bullet and have a much larger [COLOR=#3976c1! important][COLOR=#3976c1! important]brass[/color][/color] case behind the bullet filled to the brim with high power gun powder.

Muzzle velocities for these weapons can easily exceed 3000 feet per second. Some custom hand loaded cartridges in some light calibers approach or even exceed 4000 feet per second, but these are not typically available over-the-counter.

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/6149

Quote:

1,000 m/sthe speed of a typical rifle bullet
about the top speed of a sub-orbital spacecraft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(speed)

So even if you dismiss Roshi's antics as being a "gag" you cannot deny Radditz moving thousands of miles per second. They would reach the speed of light and to deny it is going against facts both in the manga and scientifically.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB

So even if you dismiss Roshi's antics as being a "gag" you cannot deny Radditz moving thousands of miles per second. They would reach the speed of light and to deny it is going against facts both in the manga and scientifically.

It's still all speculation on your part. There is no direct evidence showing that a character could go the speed of light. You are taking many pieces of weak evidence to create a weak theory. Let me show you again how to properly take direct evidence to reach some kind of conclusion:

Super Boo is stronger than Kid Boo because:

1) Goku was afraid to fight with Super Boo, even with Vegeta's help
2) Goku had no qualms about fighting Kid Boo, alone

See? Two pieces of strong evidence help us reach a conclusion. There is no speculation involved whatsoever in what I just said, as it's all shown directly in the manga. Here's what you're doing:

1) Muten Rôshi was able to dodge bullets (this is true; it's shown in the series), and he moved faster than normal humans' eyes could keep up with (this is also shown), so he could probably move faster than the speed of sound (this is a conclusion you reached; you can't use speculation to strengthen a theory)

2) Zarbon looked like he was standing still to Vegeta (when exactly did he say this?). There was a 1.09 difference between their powers (how do you know what Zarbon's power level was?), therefore, a difference of 1.09x in power level is enough to make it seem like the faster opponent is standing still to the weaker opponent (really? Vegeta was more than twice as strong as Goku was, yet he could at least keep up with his movements; he certainly didn't look like he was standing still to Goku. [b]I don't think Toriyama ran these kind of calculations like you seem to imply. It's a children's manga, as you said before. I doubt he paid any attention to the percentage differences between characters' powers)

3) If Muten Rôshi, with a power level of 139 can move at 700 MPH (speculation on your part), then a character with a power level of 278 can move at 1,400 MPH (again, speculation. How do you know that a character twice as stron

05-14-2008	#173 (permalink)
Final Ultima (18) Artificial Human Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 962 Rep Power: 0	Re: Gotenks was FASTER than the speed of light... No one knows, the persons saying they can and can't are wrong. __________________ AKIRA TORIYAMA:"DRAGONBALL, IT'S THE ANIME AND THE MANGA!"

05-14-2008	#175 (permalink)
SRP76 (22) Super Saiyan 3 Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,267 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 29	Re: Gotenks was FASTER than the speed of light... Gotenks talks to Piccolo and says only a coupe lines before flying off. 30 seconds elapsed, at most. Gotenks flies to the ground, into the distance, then takes off. If he's THAT fast, this would have taken less than a thousandth of a second. Too bad the speed of light deal is wrong, and Gotenks isn't that fast. Another 1 minute gone by. whole stupid "around the world" bullshit happens Piccolo finds Gotenks, they bicker for a few lines. Two minutes elapsed here, tops. Gotenks takes off to Buu's "house". Again, it should tkae less than a millionth of a second if he's that fast. Too bad he's not. 5 minutes taken here. Gotenks yells out for Buu. 30 seconds tick away... AND FUSION ENDS. Duh, fusion's a half-hour. Everything Gotenks did other than "flying around the world" took a MAXIMUM of 9 minutes (probably took about three minutes, if that). That means that one panel that people are fawning over lasts for 21 minutes. Few dozen = 36. Period. Not more. Lightspeed = 1 lap = 1/8 second. Fact of life, so deal with it. Laps light makes in 21 minutes = 8 * 60 * 21 = 10,080. 10,080 vs. "a few dozen" Doesn't take the Professor from Gilligan's Island to do the math here. Gotenks is NOT as fast as light. In fact, he's only about 1/280 the speed of light (and that was giving him the benefit of the doubt, by the way). Period. Proven. Stop saying that Gotenks was faster than light.

05-14-2008	#176 (permalink)
Final Ultima (18) Artificial Human Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 962 Rep Power: 0	Re: Gotenks was FASTER than the speed of light... You didn't prove anything but you know how to make up numbers and a story. __________________ AKIRA TORIYAMA:"DRAGONBALL, IT'S THE ANIME AND THE MANGA!"