uki1234

How boring can you get?

I didn't ask for anything. You came with your *brilliant* proof that sensu bean always heals wounds when it is shown that it does not. The wound Yamcha had in chest had to be healed, since he would die even after healing and thats not how Sensu works(I cant really believe you dont get that), but the fact that Goku was black and blue, doesn't effect his body at all(after healing)...
He was standing cos of fury(adrenaline rush) which triggered SSJ transformation. Wounds he had cant be healed in matter of minutes or even hours by natural way, and there are lots of examples for it. Hope you get it.

Madness

Yes, it had to be healed, and it was. BY THE SENZU BEAN. What other explaination is there? Noone there had healing abilities and Krillin was holding the fucking bag. Yamcha had no hole left.

Anyway, we're diverging a bit.

You have evidence for your point of view my friend. None at all. Face it; you're wrong.

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uki1234

For someone who cares to read and think about it, all the evidence is in my first comment in this thread.

Madness

In that case...

Yes, he was helped up, but we see him standing on his own just after Piccolo is shot. And he wasn't angry then, he was shocked. Hell, he stood up faster than Krillin did.

I think he's got a lot more energy than that personally, and if he's as tired as you seem to think he is, he'd be much lower. So no.

The fact that Freeza screamed at him when he threw the disk kinda caught Goku's attention. Goku survived through luck. Even if Goku's base had been 50,000,000 he wouldn't have had anywhere near the amount of energy required to dodge that disk, as Freeza's power was well over 2 times more.

Kiri are not reliable. We only see one example of them used, and so we don't know anything of how they work. Hell, they might work on a completely different scale to scouters.

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uki1234

The fact that he stood up cos of the shock and anger doesn't mean that he wasn't wounded and heavily injured. Just because you are heavily injured doesn't mean that you cant barely stand. I used the example where Krillin helps him get up to prove that he was heavily injured at that point. It would be totally absurd that he recovered by natural way from those wounds in matter of minutes as we see that he did after turning SSJ.

"So no." What so no? He always gets completely worn out after Genki Dama, since he uses his own ki to build it.

"The fact that Freeza screamed at him" He was pretty far away at that point. If he had heard his screams, he would react immediately, and we saw him reacting only after he sensed that disc is on his way towards him.

"Goku survived through luck" There is no luck in DBZ. You should know that.

"Even if Goku's base had been 50,000,000 he wouldn't have had anywhere near the amount of energy required to dodge that disk"

First of all Goku didn't completely dodge the disc, which means the disc could be 2 times more powerful than him, since while the disc almost went 20-30 meters, Goku only managed to move like 50 cm to almost dodge it. However if the disc was over than 20 times stronger than Goku, it would be impossible for him to even see it coming.

Frieza could be well bellow 100,000,000 at that point.

And this is fight between main villain and main hero, so "1.2x" rule doesn't really work here. For example we see Frieza(50%) holding pretty well even though he was like 2 times weaker than SSJ Goku.

About kiri: % is what matters and is reliable...

Madness

He was preparing to fight Freeza again. He wasn't as badly beaten up as was made out. Sure, he might be a martyr, but he still needed to buy Gohan and Krillin some time. So he wasn't that badly injured.

Baseless. We never hear that about Goku's Spirit Bomb. There's nothing to support that claim. For all we know, the whole of the energy comes from everyone else. Goku may have nothing to do with it.

Goku has heightened senses, ever since from being a boy. Plus, it is easier to dodge a Ki attack.

There's luck everywhere. Was it ever stated "there is no luck!"? No. So don't make baseless assumptions.

Again, more baseless assumptions. You're basing your whole arguement around the fact that Goku had a near miss.

A) He could've heard Freeza scream at him.

B) It's easier to dodge Ki attacks, they move slower than the characters do.

I can't dispute this, as there's no evidence either way. I will say that I doubt it, as even though he was losing power, I don't think it was that much.

True, but Goku was overconfident at that point. Freeza only ever caught him quickly, whilst he was off-guard, and only ever minimal damage was done.

Again, a baseless assumption. We're never told how Kiri work. They could and probably do work incredibly different from the power levels we're used to. It's not reliable as we only ever have one reading. One reading is evidence of nothing.

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uki1234

Your reasoning is very bad. I'm not the one who's making baseless assumptions, you are.

Madness

There's no evidence for your standpoints, so they're baseless. They have no supporting evidence. Either get some or STFU.

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Chibi Mystic Gohan

uki simply isn't going to budge. Move on, like I have. (Although the guy supposedly put me on ignore because my point of view was different than his, so I sort of had to.)

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"Words don't exist so that we can tell the truth; they exist so that we can conceal the truth"
- ZOMBIEPOWDER. Volume 02

gad_is_here

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uki1234

What board? Do you think that two persons with bad reasonings, who believe in additive system and think that Daizenshu is correct even after show otherwise is the whole board?

Darkprince410

I don't believe in the additive system, but your notion about the Ssj form acting as a Zenkai has no physical merit either.

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uki1234

It has, unless you find me another example where someone dodged a disc(punch, energy attack...) who was over 20 times stronger than himself.

JC#1

makes perfect sense. I don't know what kiri metar is, and the power levels are probably wrong, but the math is all correct. I guess the SS multiplier never decreased, (although Vegeta's SS multiplier was not as large as others, by like 4,000 or something, when he first fought #19, for a reason I do not know) and Goku just got a zenkai. Another theory I have about SS multiplier, which may go along side with your's, is that the 1st time someone goes SS, the multiplier is higher than when they learn to control it, because they get angry and burst with power.

uki1234

Kiri meter - The measuring device used by Babi-di to measure Goku and Yakkon's power.

Ofc the power levels are wrong. Goku can't be at 3000. But the difference in % is what matters, and its constant, no matter how much the 1 unit in kiri metar is in real power levels.

"Vegeta's SS multiplier was not as large as others" Why?