SSJ Zenkai yes or no? - Page 16

uki1234 · 05-13-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madness

Meh, either way, noone tried to learn it. Why are you so dependent on power anyway? Goku was always doing things that noone else tried to do. Like drinking the Special Water at Karin's. Noone else did that. Why? Who knows. Goku is a trailblazer.

Anyway, Super Saiyan was more powerful than Kaiokenx20. How do I know this? Because Toriyama said so. he said so by making it the ultimate thing in the series so far. It was the best at the time. End of. Arguement over. YOU LOSE.

Yamcha and Tien would be idiots if they knew about kaioken, and not try to master it. Why wouldn't anyone accept "free" base multiplier technique. For all we know they had all required conditions(base power), and they perfectly knew about kaioken, and there is no reason for Kind Kai, not to teach them how to do it.

"Why are you so dependent on power anyway?"

"Because Toriyama said so" - lol

Because kaioken is fully dependent on base power.

Haven't you noticed that the higher Goku's base power is, the higher kaioken can he do, and that King Kai wasn't able to master it since his lack of power, since Nappa was far stronger than him ? He had big trouble with 3x kaioken on Earth, while 10x kaioken against Frieza was like 2x kaioken on Earth.

Kaio · 05-13-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vagrant Lustoid 2

Fact is, if you're incorporating decreasing multipliers, you're simply making arbitrary guesses at the amount of power you feel is suitable and putting that PL there. Having decreasing multipliers denies the entire point of having a multiplier in my eyes, as you're arbitrarily deciding how much those multipliers should decrease by at any given time to fit your PL list. At least SRP76 is arguing for a constant multiplier of 3x.

Concluding when and how much the multipliers decrease may require guessing, but the majority of power levels are pretty much assumptions anyway. It can be surmised that there could be some consistent decrease in the power jump, just as we take educated guesses on power levels based on how the fights proceed and such.

I believe, as the only way to understand the possible plot holes, that there is a decreasing multiplier for super saiyan and beyond, and that the saiyans assimilate some of that power into their natural state over time, either through super saiyan mastery or what ever the reason. The reason I believe it is because of Gohan's transformation in the Buu arc. It wouldn't make sense if super saiyan 1-3 were just additives because Gohan's newly awakened power would make little sense, however, if they multiplied the user's power, it would explain Gohan's power jump without the super saiyan attributes, such as the blond hair and blue eyes. It also ties in well with how the saiyans could put up a decent fight with their opponents in base form, transform, and not make that much of a difference in the fight.

Madness · 05-14-2008

Gohan's newly awakened power...?

gad_is_here · 05-14-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madness

Gohan's newly awakened power...?

What???

Madness · 05-14-2008

What was it?

Kaio · 05-14-2008

You know. . . "MYSTIC"? I hate that word.

Madness · 05-14-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaio

You know. . . "MYSTIC"? I hate that word.

Ah, Chou Gohan. I don't see how additives would make the powerup stupid.

Cableguy15 · 05-15-2008

I don't agree with this theory mainly because I think the idea of zenkai was almost completely scrapped (With the exception of Cell, of course) by the time SSJ was thought up, similar to how Kaioken was scrapped.

Also, Goku didn't have a near-death experience to begin with. He was injured, but not anywhere within range of the past zenkais that we've seen in the past. The closest was arguably Vegeta's, but even then there was a clear difference between his injuries and Goku's.

And finally, Goku would need to be healed to get a zenkai.

uki1234 · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cableguy15

I don't agree with this theory mainly because I think the idea of zenkai was almost completely scrapped (With the exception of Cell, of course) by the time SSJ was thought up, similar to how Kaioken was scrapped.

Also, Goku didn't have a near-death experience to begin with. He was injured, but not anywhere within range of the past zenkais that we've seen in the past. The closest was arguably Vegeta's, but even then there was a clear difference between his injuries and Goku's.

And finally, Goku would need to be healed to get a zenkai.

All of those have already been answered. Dig up a little bit in last pages.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-15-2008

They aren't really "answers," so much as they are your opinion on the matter. Goku clearly isn't that injured after he's taken out of the water.

USSJed · 05-15-2008

Has anyone mentioned this yet... If Perfect Cell could recieve a Zenkai, why couldn't a similar level Saiyan recieve one?

Madness · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by USSJed

Has anyone mentioned this yet... If Perfect Cell could recieve a Zenkai, why couldn't a similar level Saiyan recieve one?

Plothole. Good point though.

It could be argued quite well that Cell never had a Zenkai. He could've quite as easily have absorbed Goku's cells as well as his own. This would've given him more power.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · 05-15-2008

They could. There was just never any reason for anyone to mention it. I'm sure Trunks and Vegeta got one after getting stomped by #17 and #18, as #17 said Kuririn should feed his friends Senzu, or they would die. A near-death experience!

Still, none of them surpassed the Jinzôningen with that power boost, so there would be no reason for Trunks or Vegeta to say, "hey, did you notice that we just got stronger?!" Not to mention the fact that Vegeta ran off to cry, and the next time we see him, he's getting ready to train in the Room of Spirit and Time.

gad_is_here · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madness

Plothole. Good point though.

It could be argued quite well that Cell never had a Zenkai. He could've quite as easily have absorbed Goku's cells as well as his own. This would've given him more power.

Maybe, but wouldn't it be better to go by the stated facts?
Besides, no one had a near death experience after the SSJ saga. Atleast, they weren't so injured as they were in the Frieza saga and before, where they were hardly able to move

Madness · 05-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by gad_is_here

Maybe, but wouldn't it be better to go by the stated facts?
Besides, no one had a near death experience after the SSJ saga. Atleast, they weren't so injured as they were in the Frieza saga and before, where they were hardly able to move

What stated facts? IIRC, they never said that Cell had had a Zenkai.

05-14-2008	#228 (permalink)
Madness Commander Madness (29) King of Soul Society Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Seeing how long I can make this entry, simply for lol reasons. Maybe I can make it stretch to the o- Posts: 9,049 Blog Entries: 9 Rep Power: 149	Re: SSJ Zenkai yes or no? Gohan's newly awakened power...? __________________

05-14-2008	#230 (permalink)
Madness Commander Madness (29) King of Soul Society Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Seeing how long I can make this entry, simply for lol reasons. Maybe I can make it stretch to the o- Posts: 9,049 Blog Entries: 9 Rep Power: 149	Re: SSJ Zenkai yes or no? What was it? __________________

05-14-2008	#231 (permalink)
Kaio (15) Super Namekian Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 439 Rep Power: 8	Re: SSJ Zenkai yes or no? You know. . . "MYSTIC"? I hate that word.

05-15-2008	#233 (permalink)
Cableguy15 (19) Mastered Super Saiyan Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,035 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 14	Re: SSJ Zenkai yes or no? I don't agree with this theory mainly because I think the idea of zenkai was almost completely scrapped (With the exception of Cell, of course) by the time SSJ was thought up, similar to how Kaioken was scrapped. Also, Goku didn't have a near-death experience to begin with. He was injured, but not anywhere within range of the past zenkais that we've seen in the past. The closest was arguably Vegeta's, but even then there was a clear difference between his injuries and Goku's. And finally, Goku would need to be healed to get a zenkai. __________________ Cableguy's Power Levels: Saiyan Saga Cableguy's Power Levels: Namek Cableguy's Power Levels: Freeza Saga

05-15-2008	#235 (permalink)
Chibi Mystic Gohan (26) Great Elder of Namek Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Surrounded by dickgirls Posts: 5,263 Rep Power: 117	Re: SSJ Zenkai yes or no? They aren't really "answers," so much as they are your opinion on the matter. Goku clearly isn't that injured after he's taken out of the water. __________________ "Words don't exist so that we can tell the truth; they exist so that we can conceal the truth" - ZOMBIEPOWDER.* Volume 02*

05-15-2008	#236 (permalink)
USSJed (26) Great Elder of Namek Join Date: May 2008 Location: Nuking teh infidelz Posts: 5,452 Rep Power: 93	Re: SSJ Zenkai yes or no? Has anyone mentioned this yet... If Perfect Cell could recieve a Zenkai, why couldn't a similar level Saiyan recieve one?

05-15-2008	#238 (permalink)
Chibi Mystic Gohan (26) Great Elder of Namek Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Surrounded by dickgirls Posts: 5,263 Rep Power: 117	Re: SSJ Zenkai yes or no? They could. There was just never any reason for anyone to mention it. I'm sure Trunks and Vegeta got one after getting stomped by #17 and #18, as #17 said Kuririn should feed his friends Senzu, or they would die. A near-death experience! Still, none of them surpassed the Jinzôningen with that power boost, so there would be no reason for Trunks or Vegeta to say, "hey, did you notice that we just got stronger?!" Not to mention the fact that Vegeta ran off to cry, and the next time we see him, he's getting ready to train in the Room of Spirit and Time. __________________ "Words don't exist so that we can tell the truth; they exist so that we can conceal the truth" - ZOMBIEPOWDER.* Volume 02*