Vagrant Lustoid 2

I don't see why it has to be so difficult. Personally, I think Freeza had weakened to the point where Gokux20 could have been able to dodge the Kienzan as a near miss, and that's exactly what I assume happened. Given that we know Kaioken is used in "heartbeats" it must be incredibly quick to prepare and utilise, and I fully believe that the moment he heard Freeza shout he hit the KK20 button.

Additionally, I don't see how you can even assume Goku was near to death. He was going to make enough time for the others to escape by fighting Freeza once more. Which means he'd have to be able to actually put up some sort of a fight. He still had plenty of kick left in him, as far as I can tell.

I think it's pretty obvious that Goku got rejuventated when he turned SSJ, but that's not the same as an injury augmentation.

SRP76

No, Goku didn't use any Kaiokenx20. Did he rev it up like he HAD to when he used it? No.

And he couldn't even blink before an attack hit him before; now, he suddenly can rev a Kaiokenx20 that fast? And he's supposedly not stronger? How in hell did he get all that extra speed, then?!

And Frieza wasn't that weak. If he was less than 80% maximum, he wouldn't be able to hold his pumped-up form anymore.

Evil Vegeta

Is Goku stronger then he was when the battle began? I would think he is because of that nice dodge. Do I think he should be around 50,000,000 for his new power? No, that's a bit too much. He could be around 10,000,000 or possibly more then that; he's certainly not that much stronger in his base over one dodge.

That was just a moment of luck when you really look at it.

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"ANB's Subordinate"

Vagrant Lustoid 2

He doesn't have to rev it up. We see from the manga that Goku had been using KK10 the whole time in the fight with Freeza without us being aware, because it's entirely momentary.

I think Freeza really was that weak. Being pumped up doesn't necessarily mean anything. If he's still forcing through the maximum power he can muster at the time, I imagine he'd still be buffed. It's like with muscles, when they get flexed, they get more solid and bulkier, regardless of the power of the person. And even if they get injured and aren't able to use the muscle to full capacity, if they push it to the most that they can at the time, it's generally going to bulk up a bit.

I do think that perhaps Goku got a little stronger, sure. But I do not think that he got a totally massive Zenkai. If he more than doubled his power, then the multiplier for SSJ would become spurious as compared to that of the Kaio-Kenx20. Personally, I think he jumped from about 3,000,000 to around 4,500,000. That'd top him out at 90,000,000 with KKx20, more than enough to manage the near miss against battle worn Freeza.

I mean, if Goku can handle 10x, and we know he can, then a heartbeat of power enhancing him from 50mil to 500mil would do the job much better than SSJ enhancing him to 150mil. And considering that with a 20x, which we've seen he can hold, he'd be able to top 1b. There'd be no point to SSJ if the multiplier is much lower than 10x, and still not a great point below 20x, since we see that Goku can actually handle 20x relatively well.

Evil Vegeta

Goku never used the Kaioken the entire battle, only when Freeza agreed for the no hands, and when he went to 50% of his maximum power.

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"ANB's Subordinate"

Vagrant Lustoid 2

Okay, you're probably right, I don't exactly remember, but I'm still fairly sure that Kaio mentions that he's been using the Kaio-Ken for at least part of the battle, and that before he mentioned that, in the manga it hadn't shown Goku using the Kaio-ken. Which would indicate that as it's supposed to be used in tiny bursts, it can't normally be seen unless he sustains the burst.

SuperSaiyanJERICHO

a nooby question.....wtf is a zenkai

Devilz

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uki1234

No offense, but only if you are idiot you can think that it was luck or Frieza missed or whatever when its clearly shown that Goku moved to dodge it!

Evil Vegeta

He moved to the side very quickly, and Freeza yelled "Damn" when he didn't get him. That means he barely dodged it. It wasn't skillfully dodged by Goku.

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"ANB's Subordinate"

SRP76

Goku couldn't dodge anything AT ALL before, even with 10x Kaioken. Couldn't even see the attacks, much less "barely avoid" anything. He got clubbed by every single attack, without even coming close to dodging.

Vagrant Lustoid 2

Look at how close he was to getting Goku, that was pure luck on Goku's part. You can see it skim past him as he spins. he was incredibly lucky not to get hit by it. If you believe that he got such a huge base increase, why wouldn't he then be fast enough to kick his Kaio-Ken into gear to more easily dodge it?

I think he got a minor boost, yes, and then combined with a x20 it was enough to avoid the disk, barely.

uki1234

What 20x? Do you see any kaioken aura?

Evil Vegeta

Yes, but he still barely dodged it. That was like a last minute thing at best. So, even if Goku is at 50,000,000 for his power, Freeza's still way above that in his weakened form, which still makes dodging the kienzan incredible anyway if we look at it from that standpoint.

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"ANB's Subordinate"

Vagrant Lustoid 2

You do not need to. Did you miss what I said before about how the Kai pointed out that Goku had already been using KKx10, and yet it hadn't been shown? Clearly, it's an instantaneous flicker of power for a brief moment, so fast that the human eye doesn't register it.

And that's pretty much how they describe it, as a really brief flare of power.