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DragonBall / Z Discuss and debate the canon events of the anime and manga by Akira Toriyama.

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Old 05-02-2008   #1 (permalink)
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Default What made DBZ great

I was reading through DBZ 17-21 this month. I was enjoying it like there was no tomorrow. Sure, there isn't a great storyline or depth or anything like it, but it was still great. I've been through volume 39-42 also and I didn't think it wasn't as great(aside from 42 which is my favourite). Now I was wondering, what made early DBZ better than late DBZ. I checked through the fighting sequences and found out a little something interesting.

When Raditz came to earth for the first time, his power was about 1,200, Goku and Piccolo's powers were in the early 400's. Still, they weren't scared, they fought Raditz and Goku had a reason to fight Raditz, Raditz also had a reason to fight Goku. Goku acted like a very protective father of his young son, he didn't care if Raditz was going to thrash him, he fought him. Piccolo and Goku were outmatched in terms of speed an raw power, it was obvious because they were about 3x weaker than Raditz. The amazing thing is the fact they worked together as a team, that fight was great, they've found a way to kill him even if they had to sacrifice someone to do it. They used their brains and the fact they were two instead of one, Goku grabbed him and prevent him to move, then Piccolo just blasted him with a Mankankosapo through the heart.

Remember when the saiyans were on earth, what was Nappa's power level already? 8,000??? I believe none of the Z fighters exceeded 3,000 or 4,000. It means Nappa was at least 2x stronger than each one of them individually. It should have been an easy run for Nappa, but was it? No, not at all. When Gohan, Piccolo and Krillin were the only ones left they managed to damage him quite a bit and he was losing his patience, they even had an occasion to finish him off. They used strategy to fend him off and it almost work, they did everything they could to stay alive and waited for Goku. Now, that was all about fighting with skills and intelligence period.

In the Buu saga, the difference is the fact they don't rely on their intelligence anymore, they just rely on their planet busting capacities. Even if Buu is arguably the most idiot ennemy they ever faced, Goku was scard to fight him and said they absolutely needed to fuse. I mean...what was that?? It wasn't like that in early DBZ, the ennemy was always leagues ahead of him but they worked together to defeat him, they didn't just rely on flashy power-ups, they didn't hide for days in order to train a defeat their foes.

That's what made late-DBZ so bad, it's all about raw power, nothing else.

Edit: Damniit wrong section.
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Old 05-03-2008   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: What made DBZ great

Good post, thread moved at your behest.

My issue with later DBZ is that such augmentations in power reached fruition that it became in contest with story and character elements and left little room for growth - a fatal flaw to pine over. By the end, it became contrived (what with Gohan/Gotenks being the new Goku/Vegeta) and too much about rudimentary brute strength, a bit of a divergent direction from where Toriyama-sensei was shooting in the beginning of Dragonball (though not drastically so).
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Old 05-03-2008   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: What made DBZ great

I really liked the early DBZ fights the best too. They'd actually use clever and realistic tactics in those fights. I liked Goku before he went SSJ on Namek. He was using trickiness and skill to try and beat Frieza, and was doing a decent job.

I thought the whole SSJ thing would've been cooler if it was closer to the legend and was something he couldn't control, but was a power that enabled him to win just about any fight.
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Old 05-03-2008   #4 (permalink)
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Cool Re: What made DBZ great

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Originally Posted by Old Rai View Post
I really liked the early DBZ fights the best too. They'd actually use clever and realistic tactics in those fights. I liked Goku before he went SSJ on Namek. He was using trickiness and skill to try and beat Frieza, and was doing a decent job.

I thought the whole SSJ thing would've been cooler if it was closer to the legend and was something he couldn't control, but was a power that enabled him to win just about any fight.
Agree 100%.
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Old 05-03-2008   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: What made DBZ great

maybe it has somthing to do with them becoming super sayians. sayians love to fight and want to become stronger. maybe the super sayian transformation changed them, making them desire and use more of their shear power n strengt instead of thinking and strategy. look and gohan he had like no real ambition to hurt people or fight, but when he became a super sayian two he seemed to enjoy causing pain to cell. he had the power to destroy him at anytime but he let it drag on. you never really seen them do that earlier in their base forms, if they had a chance to take them out they did. like goku n piccolo vs raditz they dident wait around to play with him they had a chance to kill him n they took it at the expence of gokus life. or the fight with kid buu, they had the chance to fuse n would have owned kid buu but they choose not to. i dont know maybe the super sayian transformation does change there thinking a stragety in a fight
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Old 05-03-2008   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: What made DBZ great

I like the Dragon Ball series for the sheer absurdity and rediculous-ness associated with it, and I also agree that the fights prior to SSj introduction are the best ones because those were fights based on wit and skill, not raw power like the later series was.

Also everything about the series up to the Freeza arc makes a fairly consistent story, as opposed to after the Freeza arc where there is little to no consistency at all. Even though the story becomes a bit more complicated during the Cell arc, there's little depth to it. After the Freeza arc, the series transforms from an absurd and entertaining adventure to one that is nothing more then one huge fight-fest.

And through it all, the actual role of the Dragon Balls in the series almost completely disappears by the Cell arc. Basically everything that leads up to the Freeza saga had something to do with the Dragon Balls, while the role of the Dragon Balls is almost non-existent by the Cell arc.
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Old 05-04-2008   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: What made DBZ great

Dragonball Z was made great because it was something new that people haven't seen before. More and more fans loved DBZ after the fight between Goku and Vegeta during the Saiyan saga, labeled by Shonen Jump "#1 Anime Fight of All-Time"
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Old 05-04-2008   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: What made DBZ great

I really prefer reading the Namek/Freeza saga out of all of them. It seemed to have the better of the storyline, and there was actual strategy within their fights. They had to really plan how they were going to attack, and there's Freeza transformations and stuff like that. The Piccolo Daimao battle is another one of my favorites, simply because the battle usually came down to who had the most skill, and not the highest power level.

I really like every saga to be honest, just think the Freeza is the best out of all of them.
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